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+---- Thread: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment (/thread-868129.html)
The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - AllTideUp - 01-10-2019 02:29 PM
Highly entertaining.
I'm always fascinated by people from other countries learning about the weirdness and intricacies of college athletics.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - Nerdlinger - 01-10-2019 03:49 PM
(01-10-2019 02:29 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:
Highly entertaining.
I'm always fascinated by people from other countries learning about the weirdness and intricacies of college athletics.
"Miami? I thought that was down in Florida."
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - BePcr07 - 01-10-2019 04:53 PM
I enjoyed this. I have much nostalgia for many of those more regional conferences.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - bigblueblindness - 01-10-2019 06:12 PM
That year by year PowerPoint was a labor of love! It was kind of funny watching Notre Dame stay in the Independents box year after year after year.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - e-parade - 01-11-2019 02:29 PM
That guy is legitimately excited about it, and it's not just someone trying to be funny with how ridiculous it sometimes seems. Normally when I see videos of people from other countries reacting to US based sports and stuff it's more of them just being confused and laughing about things. This was pretty cool.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - gosports1 - 01-11-2019 07:24 PM
id like to see that presentation he was looking at
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - TexanMark - 01-11-2019 08:13 PM
(01-11-2019 07:24 PM)gosports1 Wrote: id like to see that presentation he was looking at
Me too...his comments did nothing for me.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - Nerdlinger - 01-11-2019 08:21 PM
(01-11-2019 07:24 PM)gosports1 Wrote: id like to see that presentation he was looking at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYNDgYqqVFo
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - gosports1 - 01-12-2019 03:05 PM
(01-11-2019 08:21 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:(01-11-2019 07:24 PM)gosports1 Wrote: id like to see that presentation he was looking at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYNDgYqqVFo
thanks
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - Kittonhead - 01-13-2019 03:09 AM
Go back to 1978 and 1-A was never designed to be a 2 class system like we have today with P5/G5.
It was designed to be a gradation of competitiveness from the SEC/B1G level down to borderline FCS conferences.
The BCS even just had the intent of aligning the major bowl games to rotate the national championship. In fact nobody really understood which conferences had tie-ins aside from the B1G champ going to the Rose Bowl prior to the bowl alliance era.
The BE FB conference was the poster child for taking advantage of its Orange Bowl tie-in on the recruiting trail. They negatively recruited against programs that weren't BCS. At that time programs that were left out like Houston and Memphis were "down and out", way behind in facilities from those in the XII.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - Kittonhead - 01-13-2019 03:38 AM
As I remember it, in the early BCS era the first thing commentators starting doing was patting on the back Virginia Tech, Miami and other programs for getting into the Big East.
Then once it was understood they did a fine job by getting into the BE, the negation proved true. Those who didn't were not in a BCS conference, they were non-BCS. Gradually salaries and recruiting which always were tilted to the bluebloods/SEC/B1G were then associated with BCS status vs. non-BCS status by the talking heads on TV.
WAC and CUSA were equity conferences by the NCAA after the late 90's reorganization with P5 level voting rights. The WAC split which split their votes evenly between the WAC and MWC. CUSA had those full voting rights until this latest P5/G5 restructure. As late as 1998 there wasn't this have and have-not schism in 1-A/FBS football. There was not a real call for some of those MAC teams to have a crack at a major bowl either so non-BCS expectations needed some time to develop.
The fans at this point have the P5/G5 schism ingrained in their thinking as it in fact is legally.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - UTEPDallas - 01-13-2019 04:06 PM
(01-13-2019 03:38 AM)Kittonhead Wrote: As I remember it, in the early BCS era the first thing commentators starting doing was patting on the back Virginia Tech, Miami and other programs for getting into the Big East.
Then once it was understood they did a fine job by getting into the BE, the negation proved true. Those who didn't were not in a BCS conference, they were non-BCS. Gradually salaries and recruiting which always were tilted to the bluebloods/SEC/B1G were then associated with BCS status vs. non-BCS status by the talking heads on TV.
WAC and CUSA were equity conferences by the NCAA after the late 90's reorganization with P5 level voting rights. The WAC split which split their votes evenly between the WAC and MWC. CUSA had those full voting rights until this latest P5/G5 restructure. As late as 1998 there wasn't this have and have-not schism in 1-A/FBS football. There was not a real call for some of those MAC teams to have a crack at a major bowl either so non-BCS expectations needed some time to develop.
The fans at this point have the P5/G5 schism ingrained in their thinking as it in fact is legally.
There’s always been haves and have nots in college football and basketball. UTEP has played “major” football for 100 years. But it’ll never be confused with Penn State with its tradition and resources.
The difference between now and then is ESPN has been an instigator in creating two classes of programs. It started with the Alliance and BCS with the terms AQs and nonAQs now it’s P5 and G5. In basketball, the term mid-major became a thing. ESPN even had a bracket buster in February featuring “mid-majors” playing each other. Another thing is television rights have created an arms race in facilities and salaries. I still remember when Steve Spurrier was the first coach to make $1 million. That was 20 years ago. That’s what some DC and OCs make today.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - UTEPDallas - 01-13-2019 04:52 PM
I liked the video. It’s nice to see a foreigner’s point of view on realignment. The only sad thing watching that video was the amount of conference mates UTEP has lost since 1978:
Arizona (1978)
Arizona State (1978)
Utah (1999)
BYU (1999)
New Mexico (1999)
Colorado State (1999)
Air Force (1999)
Wyoming (1999)
San Diego State (1999)
UNLV (1999)
TCU (2001)
Fresno State (2005)
Boise State (2005)
San Jose State (2005)
Hawaii (2005)
Nevada (2005)
Louisiana Tech (from 2005 to 2013)
Houston (2013)
SMU (2013)
UCF (2013)
Memphis (2013)
Tulsa (2014)
Tulane (2014)
East Carolina (2014)
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - Kittonhead - 01-14-2019 01:00 AM
(01-13-2019 04:06 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:(01-13-2019 03:38 AM)Kittonhead Wrote: As I remember it, in the early BCS era the first thing commentators starting doing was patting on the back Virginia Tech, Miami and other programs for getting into the Big East.
Then once it was understood they did a fine job by getting into the BE, the negation proved true. Those who didn't were not in a BCS conference, they were non-BCS. Gradually salaries and recruiting which always were tilted to the bluebloods/SEC/B1G were then associated with BCS status vs. non-BCS status by the talking heads on TV.
WAC and CUSA were equity conferences by the NCAA after the late 90's reorganization with P5 level voting rights. The WAC split which split their votes evenly between the WAC and MWC. CUSA had those full voting rights until this latest P5/G5 restructure. As late as 1998 there wasn't this have and have-not schism in 1-A/FBS football. There was not a real call for some of those MAC teams to have a crack at a major bowl either so non-BCS expectations needed some time to develop.
The fans at this point have the P5/G5 schism ingrained in their thinking as it in fact is legally.
There’s always been haves and have nots in college football and basketball. UTEP has played “major” football for 100 years. But it’ll never be confused with Penn State with its tradition and resources.
The difference between now and then is ESPN has been an instigator in creating two classes of programs. It started with the Alliance and BCS with the terms AQs and nonAQs now it’s P5 and G5. In basketball, the term mid-major became a thing. ESPN even had a bracket buster in February featuring “mid-majors” playing each other. Another thing is television rights have created an arms race in facilities and salaries. I still remember when Steve Spurrier was the first coach to make $1 million. That was 20 years ago. That’s what some DC and OCs make today.
Definitely.
The two classes back in the 80's were those in the CFA and those who were not, namely the Big West, MAC, MVC, Southern ect. listed in the video. B1G and PAC of course had the Rose and were elite conferences outside the CFA
If you go back to 1985 the consensus was the Big West and MAC probably were going to fade out of the picture long term like MVC and Southern Conference did. MAC hung in there through attempts to get them out with attendance rules and eventually started gaining traction with the addition of Marshall.
The CFA independents scrambled to join a conference. Some like Florida State had their pick of suitors. Some had to settle for CUSA which initially again was considered a NCAA equity conference.
For this reason I don't understand why the WAC and CUSA were shut out of the BCS system when they were both part of the CFA. The level of money involved was not that high back then like it is today per bowl game so something I believe could have been worked out.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - Kittonhead - 01-15-2019 12:19 AM
For where the G5 sits today with only 1 bid to a NY6 game, there were discussions back in 2005-2006 to add a second tier of BCS games to the original 4 (Rose, Fiesta, Orange, Sugar) that would have included non-BCS conference champions.
That would have likely been the Holiday.....Cotton, Peach maybe Citrus Bowl, 2 of which are New Year's Six today.
The non-BCS at the time said no to a set of second tier games; they were adamant about having a crack at one of the BCS 4 bowl games. One slot guaranteed for the highest rated non-AQ champion if ranked in the Top 12/Top 16 of the standings.
Had they accepted the second tier bowl deal the G5 would have kept autobids into the CFP/NY8 system instead of having only one autobid for the CFP/NY6 as they do now. An autobid that will probably morph into an autobid for an eight team playoff once it expands.
Probably at the time the MWC with Las Vegas Bowl thought they already had a quality second tier bowl for its champ and ditto with CUSA in the Liberty bowl to the point where they didn't view the Cotton or Holiday as a significant step up. But long term it would have been better down the road than to have to pool all the G5 conferences together for one autobid.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - AntiG - 01-15-2019 11:22 AM
(01-13-2019 04:52 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote: I liked the video. It’s nice to see a foreigner’s point of view on realignment. The only sad thing watching that video was the amount of conference mates UTEP has lost since 1978:
yeah even as a winner in conference realignment (Rutgers), its sad. You establish so many great annual matchups and rivalries over the years and then it all gets tossed. I certainly miss playing West Virginia and Louisville in particular because those games were always a lot of fun and when Rutgers finally hit their competitive stride. I miss the hatred towards Syracuse's obnoxious fans as well, and it was nice being able to make short drives/take train to away games against Temple, UConn, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, etc. Never got to get our revenge against Miami either when we finally became top 10 ranked and they started sucking during the mid-2000s.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - Kittonhead - 01-15-2019 11:28 AM
(01-15-2019 11:22 AM)AntiG Wrote:(01-13-2019 04:52 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote: I liked the video. It’s nice to see a foreigner’s point of view on realignment. The only sad thing watching that video was the amount of conference mates UTEP has lost since 1978:
yeah even as a winner in conference realignment (Rutgers), its sad. You establish so many great annual matchups and rivalries over the years and then it all gets tossed. I certainly miss playing West Virginia and Louisville in particular because those games were always a lot of fun and when Rutgers finally hit their competitive stride. I miss the hatred towards Syracuse's obnoxious fans as well, and it was nice being able to make short drives/take train to away games against Temple, UConn, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, etc. Never got to get our revenge against Miami either when we finally became top 10 ranked and they started sucking during the mid-2000s.
Rutgers sold out sports for the B1G academics.
RE: The Kiwi Has Landed - A New Zealander learns about conference realignment - AntiG - 01-15-2019 03:37 PM
(01-15-2019 11:28 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:(01-15-2019 11:22 AM)AntiG Wrote:(01-13-2019 04:52 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote: I liked the video. It’s nice to see a foreigner’s point of view on realignment. The only sad thing watching that video was the amount of conference mates UTEP has lost since 1978:
yeah even as a winner in conference realignment (Rutgers), its sad. You establish so many great annual matchups and rivalries over the years and then it all gets tossed. I certainly miss playing West Virginia and Louisville in particular because those games were always a lot of fun and when Rutgers finally hit their competitive stride. I miss the hatred towards Syracuse's obnoxious fans as well, and it was nice being able to make short drives/take train to away games against Temple, UConn, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, etc. Never got to get our revenge against Miami either when we finally became top 10 ranked and they started sucking during the mid-2000s.
Rutgers sold out sports for the B1G academics.
not really... Rutgers sold out sports to cheapness. They spent the money, achieved something, then pulled back thinking the existing system worked without investing more. They have always had the internal political struggle of "Ivy League" vs "Big Ten" mentality due to the academic leadership deriding sports and ignoring economics.