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+---- Thread: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left (/thread-862937.html)
Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - Hambone10 - 11-09-2018 06:26 PM
If you disagree that this is what they did... that's fine... I don't really care to debate that point... I think it's an interesting plan and I believe it happened and is effective
In this election specifically, but also arguably in the election of Obama over Hillary...
The left has (in many cases) hand-picked candidates by district. I'm generalizing, but I think it's demonstrable and even obvious in some instances...
If democratic voters in a district was about 50/50 anglo/Hispanic, then they ran someone of anglo/Hispanic lineage... often with very little political background to investigate... and then they ran on identity politics and of course, hate for Trump... few actual policy differences.
Especially for the house and state races, pretty smart. Doesn't mean their candidates will walk in lock-step though... now that they've been elected. Pretty strong indicators, but not a lock.
Anyone else see/feel the same?
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - bullet - 11-09-2018 06:29 PM
(11-09-2018 06:26 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: If you disagree that this is what they did... that's fine... I don't really care to debate that point... I think it's an interesting plan and I believe it happened and is effective
In this election specifically, but also arguably in the election of Obama over Hillary...
The left has (in many cases) hand-picked candidates by district. I'm generalizing, but I think it's demonstrable and even obvious in some instances...
If democratic voters in a district was about 50/50 anglo/Hispanic, then they ran someone of anglo/Hispanic lineage... often with very little political background to investigate... and then they ran on identity politics and of course, hate for Trump... few actual policy differences.
Especially for the house and state races, pretty smart. Doesn't mean their candidates will walk in lock-step though... now that they've been elected. Pretty strong indicators, but not a lock.
Anyone else see/feel the same?
They handpicked Hillary also.
Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - maximus - 11-09-2018 08:10 PM
Bingo
And the voters drink the hype and totally ignore substance
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - SoMs Eagle - 11-09-2018 08:21 PM
And if they lose close elections, find some votes locked in a closet somewhere.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - JRsec - 11-09-2018 08:26 PM
(11-09-2018 08:21 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote: And if they lose close elections, find some votes locked in a closet somewhere.
Hells bells son, they don't find votes, they make them up or send their folks through twice.
They follow the old Lyndon Johnson mantra, vote early, vote often, and death is no excuse!
I know what you meant and it's true, but saying they found them somehow makes it seem legitimate when it is fraud pure and simple.
And to Hambone, what you posit is true and the Republicans are stupid for running party hacks who have worked for them in past elections and who simply feel like it is their turn to run. IMO part of political vetting should be electability. So hats off to the Dems for remembering that in the end the persona of the candidate matters. We need young smart women and minorities who can simply out talk and out think their Dim opponents, but who are true to the ideals of the GOP.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - cb4029 - 11-09-2018 08:48 PM
Was it the Muslim community that elected the Muslim. Or just decent folk.
I think I've figured out the Republican plan. Hate and fear.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - JRsec - 11-09-2018 08:58 PM
(11-09-2018 08:48 PM)cb4029 Wrote: Was it the Muslim community that elected the Muslim. Or just decent folk.
I think I've figured out the Republican plan. Hate and fear.
No, it was socialist idiots. And you can use the hate and fear tactic when the Republicans start sending thugs to your homes to harass your families, maybe a group called ANTISO, or ANTICOM. But until then the hate and fear is your tactic, not ours. And before you talk about the past remember those pointy headed bigots in white robes were Democrats.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - cb4029 - 11-09-2018 09:02 PM
(11-09-2018 08:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:(11-09-2018 08:48 PM)cb4029 Wrote: Was it the Muslim community that elected the Muslim. Or just decent folk.
I think I've figured out the Republican plan. Hate and fear.
No, it was socialist idiots. And you can use the hate and fear tactic when the Republicans start sending thugs to your homes to harass your families, maybe a group called ANTISO, or ANTICOM. But until then the hate and fear is your tactic, not ours. And before you talk about the past remember those pointy headed bigots in white robes were Democrats.
Your whole response was covered in weak sauce. Why are you so angry?
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - JRsec - 11-09-2018 09:09 PM
(11-09-2018 09:02 PM)cb4029 Wrote:(11-09-2018 08:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:(11-09-2018 08:48 PM)cb4029 Wrote: Was it the Muslim community that elected the Muslim. Or just decent folk.
I think I've figured out the Republican plan. Hate and fear.
No, it was socialist idiots. And you can use the hate and fear tactic when the Republicans start sending thugs to your homes to harass your families, maybe a group called ANTISO, or ANTICOM. But until then the hate and fear is your tactic, not ours. And before you talk about the past remember those pointy headed bigots in white robes were Democrats.
Your whole response was covered in weak sauce. Why are you so angry?
I'm not angry, but I'm not trying to bait you either. But you sure as hell are trying to bait the board with your lame ass posts!
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - Hambone10 - 11-09-2018 10:27 PM
(11-09-2018 08:26 PM)JRsec Wrote: And to Hambone, what you posit is true and the Republicans are stupid for running party hacks who have worked for them in past elections and who simply feel like it is their turn to run. IMO part of political vetting should be electability. So hats off to the Dems for remembering that in the end the persona of the candidate matters. We need young smart women and minorities who can simply out talk and out think their Dim opponents, but who are true to the ideals of the GOP.
exactly the part I was going to write, but was hoping someone else noticed.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - SuperFlyBCat - 11-09-2018 11:25 PM
(11-09-2018 08:48 PM)cb4029 Wrote: Was it the Muslim community that elected the Muslim. Or just decent folk.
I think I've figured out the Republican plan. Hate and fear.
Are you talking about the muslim who married her brother for a green card?
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - DavidSt - 11-10-2018 08:33 AM
They tried to fixed 2008 for Hillary to win. Hillary was supposed to be the candidate against John McCain. So, 2016 came about, and the Dems fixed it so that Hillary won the primaries. Dems purged voters in Arizona of voters who they figured would vote Bernie. Now, we have candidates this year who bucked the Clinton machine and who are anti-Pelosi winning the nominee for the Dems. Clarke Tucker here who went up against French Hill was an anti-Pelosi candidate. He got more votes than anybody else before him. If we have elected more in the house, and voted out the establishment Republicans? We could get rid of Schumer as leader. What the Democrats that were challenging a lot of Republicans never hold office before. Those are the ones that won races against the establishment Republicans. Oklahoma City/Norman district went to a first time Democrat woman who never helo office before. Beto got traction in Texas because he never hold office before and went up against a Republican establishment Ted Cruz. This should be a wake up call for the establishment on both sides. The American voters are sick of you all.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - cb4029 - 11-10-2018 08:42 AM
(11-10-2018 08:33 AM)DavidSt Wrote: They tried to fixed 2008 for Hillary to win. Hillary was supposed to be the candidate against John McCain. So, 2016 came about, and the Dems fixed it so that Hillary won the primaries. Dems purged voters in Arizona of voters who they figured would vote Bernie. Now, we have candidates this year who bucked the Clinton machine and who are anti-Pelosi winning the nominee for the Dems. Clarke Tucker here who went up against French Hill was an anti-Pelosi candidate. He got more votes than anybody else before him. If we have elected more in the house, and voted out the establishment Republicans? We could get rid of Schumer as leader. What the Democrats that were challenging a lot of Republicans never hold office before. Those are the ones that won races against the establishment Republicans. Oklahoma City/Norman district went to a first time Democrat woman who never helo office before. Beto got traction in Texas because he never hold office before and went up against a Republican establishment Ted Cruz. This should be a wake up call for the establishment on both sides. The American voters are sick of you all.
![[Image: 0*ltQkCTMfLA76FYzr.]](https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/529/0*ltQkCTMfLA76FYzr.)
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - Owl 69/70/75 - 11-10-2018 09:00 AM
(11-10-2018 08:33 AM)DavidSt Wrote: Beto got traction in Texas because he never hold office before and went up against a Republican establishment Ted Cruz. This should be a wake up call for the establishment on both sides. The American voters are sick of you all.
Umm, Robert O'Rourke was a three-term Irish-American congressman.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - TigerBlue4Ever - 11-10-2018 09:03 AM
(11-09-2018 09:02 PM)cb4029 Wrote:(11-09-2018 08:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:(11-09-2018 08:48 PM)cb4029 Wrote: Was it the Muslim community that elected the Muslim. Or just decent folk.
I think I've figured out the Republican plan. Hate and fear.
No, it was socialist idiots. And you can use the hate and fear tactic when the Republicans start sending thugs to your homes to harass your families, maybe a group called ANTISO, or ANTICOM. But until then the hate and fear is your tactic, not ours. And before you talk about the past remember those pointy headed bigots in white robes were Democrats.
Your whole response was covered in weak sauce. Why are you so angry?
Talk about weak sauce. You aren't very good at this.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - Owl 69/70/75 - 11-10-2018 09:29 AM
(11-09-2018 06:26 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: If you disagree that this is what they did... that's fine... I don't really care to debate that point... I think it's an interesting plan and I believe it happened and is effective
In this election specifically, but also arguably in the election of Obama over Hillary...
The left has (in many cases) hand-picked candidates by district. I'm generalizing, but I think it's demonstrable and even obvious in some instances...
If democratic voters in a district was about 50/50 anglo/Hispanic, then they ran someone of anglo/Hispanic lineage... often with very little political background to investigate... and then they ran on identity politics and of course, hate for Trump... few actual policy differences.
Especially for the house and state races, pretty smart. Doesn't mean their candidates will walk in lock-step though... now that they've been elected. Pretty strong indicators, but not a lock.
Anyone else see/feel the same?
I think back to a conversation with a Brit friend and local politician in Bristol many years ago, late at night and after the wives decided we had probably far too much wine. We were discussing Tony Blair versus John Major. He said, "Labour (left) always have more attractive personalities. Of course, they have to in order to compete, because Tories (right) have better ideas." He was Labor, by the way.
I think that's going on here. Democrats play identity politics because that's how they can win. Whether their ideas are any good or not (and I think most of them are awful) is irrelevant. Who cares what my ideas are, I'm a gay female Hispanic African-American, and we don't have enough of those so you need to elect me. They ask the question that Lad asked over in the Rice Quad board--Aren't we better off if our leaders reflect the race, sex, age, and other characteristics of our population? I think not. I think it is more important that they reflect the political views of our population.
Republicans need to make it about issues. The one time in my lifetime that republicans made it strictly about issues was Newt's Contract in 1994. Newt took the issues of the day, developed ideas to deal with them, tested them with voters by polling, crafted the Contract, and then told every republican that was the message and they better stay on it. The result was their biggest electoral victory, probably ever. The problem was that while Newt was a good backroom policy wonk, put him in charge of anything and he is a problem. Republicans forgot the message in their zeal to go after Monicagate, and since then have tried to play Karl Rove's version of identity politics. Trump is kind of the ideal Karl Rove candidate--you love him or hate him, and you can cobble together just enough people who love him to get a bare majority, at least in the electoral college.
I don't think that's a viable way forward for republicans. I think they need to do another Contract. But it needs to be not just a set of platitudes, instead something that is poll-tested the way Newt did it. Right now there are a number of issues where I think we have real problems, democrats have proposed "solutions" that are horrible and will make things worse, but the republicans have proposed no real alternative solutions. Democrats said this election was about health care, and Obamacare sucks, but the republican fiasco over replacing it probably cost them a couple of senate seats and a dozen house seats. Pick something, damn it (I think Bismarck), and get everybody onboard. Do the same with immigration. I personally think the wall is the wrong hill to die on. But I do support improved border security, increased legal immigration under a merit-based system, permanent guest worker status without a path to citizenship for those who have gotten in illegally, restrictions on anchor babies, no welfare for illegals, and amnesty for legitimate amnesty cases who enter legally.
Come up with solutions, test them with the electorate by polling, compose a coherent message, and if you want to be a republican this is the message you stand on. You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything. And right now the lack of a coherent republican message makes then vulnerable to identity politics, where they lose.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - Fo Shizzle - 11-10-2018 09:40 AM
I agree with the OP. I would however say that I think both gangs do it to some extent. The GOP has run law and order types, military vets and bible thumpers in places where that is appealing.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - Owl 69/70/75 - 11-10-2018 10:43 AM
(11-10-2018 09:40 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I agree with the OP. I would however say that I think both gangs do it to some extent. The GOP has run law and order types, military vets and bible thumpers in places where that is appealing.
But they've also run them in places where that's not appealing.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - tanqtonic - 11-10-2018 10:51 AM
(11-10-2018 10:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:(11-10-2018 09:40 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I agree with the OP. I would however say that I think both gangs do it to some extent. The GOP has run law and order types, military vets and bible thumpers in places where that is appealing.
But they've also run them in places where that's not appealing.
The Democrats have gotten very astute about running people who are very attractive to very hostile districts.
Take Texas 31st (Round Rock area) for instance. Last time around the incumbent Carter won by 25 points.
Democrats chose a vet, female, and current housemom to run against him. Not a whit was her message anything about policy or political stances. But a literal crap ton about the helicopter she was piloting being shot down in Afghanistan, her DFC, her Purple Heart, and her involvement in helping get the combat status for women overturned.
Changed Carter's +25 in a bedrock Republican district to a paltry +3 re-election.
Hambone hit it dead on in his insight.
I can cite to you 10 or 12 races just like to the one mentioned above.
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left - Owl 69/70/75 - 11-10-2018 11:14 AM
(11-10-2018 10:51 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: Not a whit was her message anything about policy or political stances.
That is the key for democrats. Make it about personalities, not policies.
One would think that means republicans should make it about policies, not personalities. But that's not a message they are getting. They seem to be trying to play Karl Rove's version of identity politics against people who are better at identity politics.