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McCain and Vietnam - bobdizole - 08-27-2018 04:36 PM
A great story on how he fought his demons and turned relations around with a country he bombed until being caught and tortured for 5 years. Just goes to show anyone can change.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/27/how-vietnam-has-reacted-death-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4cd7f8044851
RE: McCain and Vietnam - Owl 69/70/75 - 08-27-2018 04:39 PM
(08-27-2018 04:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: A great story on how he fought his demons and turned relations around with a country he carpet bombed until being caught and tortured for 5 years. Just goes to show anyone can change.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/27/how-vietnam-has-reacted-death-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4cd7f8044851
He didn't "carpet bomb." He flew A-7s. You don't carpet bomb with A-7s.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - shere khan - 08-27-2018 04:42 PM
(08-27-2018 04:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: A great story on how he fought his demons and turned relations around with a country he carpet bombed until being caught and tortured for 5 years. Just goes to show anyone can change.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/27/how-vietnam-has-reacted-death-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4cd7f8044851
Go back and read some of the articles the media wrote about him when he was running against Obama.
Their hypocrisy is boundless. For better or worse, some of us have long memories.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - maximus - 08-27-2018 04:46 PM
(08-27-2018 04:42 PM)shere khan Wrote:Thats what I have been thinking for the last several days.(08-27-2018 04:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: A great story on how he fought his demons and turned relations around with a country he carpet bombed until being caught and tortured for 5 years. Just goes to show anyone can change.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/27/how-vietnam-has-reacted-death-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4cd7f8044851
Go back and read some of the articles the media wrote about him when he was running against Obama.
Their hypocrisy is boundless. For better or worse, some of us have long memories.
For me McCain jumped the shark long before the 08 debacle.
He was a great American who had faults, but dont we all
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RE: McCain and Vietnam - bobdizole - 08-27-2018 04:50 PM
(08-27-2018 04:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:(08-27-2018 04:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: A great story on how he fought his demons and turned relations around with a country he carpet bombed until being caught and tortured for 5 years. Just goes to show anyone can change.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/27/how-vietnam-has-reacted-death-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4cd7f8044851
He didn't "carpet bomb." He flew A-7s. You don't carpet bomb with A-7s.
Corrected, apologies
RE: McCain and Vietnam - bobdizole - 08-27-2018 04:53 PM
(08-27-2018 04:42 PM)shere khan Wrote:(08-27-2018 04:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: A great story on how he fought his demons and turned relations around with a country he carpet bombed until being caught and tortured for 5 years. Just goes to show anyone can change.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/27/how-vietnam-has-reacted-death-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4cd7f8044851
Go back and read some of the articles the media wrote about him when he was running against Obama.
Their hypocrisy is boundless. For better or worse, some of us have long memories.
Off topic, but I just looked up the history of Reverie, TN. I have lived in West TN most of my life and never knew there were cities across the MS river. Fascinating
RE: McCain and Vietnam - shere khan - 08-27-2018 04:55 PM
(08-27-2018 04:53 PM)bobdizole Wrote:Thats why I have it listed. It's a bizarre, little known, quirk of history.(08-27-2018 04:42 PM)shere khan Wrote:(08-27-2018 04:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: A great story on how he fought his demons and turned relations around with a country he carpet bombed until being caught and tortured for 5 years. Just goes to show anyone can change.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/27/how-vietnam-has-reacted-death-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4cd7f8044851
Go back and read some of the articles the media wrote about him when he was running against Obama.
Their hypocrisy is boundless. For better or worse, some of us have long memories.
Off topic, but I just looked up the history of Reverie, TN. I have lived in West TN most of my life and never knew there were cities across the MS river. Fascinating
RE: McCain and Vietnam - TechRocks - 08-27-2018 06:03 PM
(08-27-2018 04:55 PM)shere khan Wrote:(08-27-2018 04:53 PM)bobdizole Wrote:Thats why I have it listed. It's a bizarre, little known, quirk of history.(08-27-2018 04:42 PM)shere khan Wrote:(08-27-2018 04:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: A great story on how he fought his demons and turned relations around with a country he carpet bombed until being caught and tortured for 5 years. Just goes to show anyone can change.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/27/how-vietnam-has-reacted-death-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4cd7f8044851
Go back and read some of the articles the media wrote about him when he was running against Obama.
Their hypocrisy is boundless. For better or worse, some of us have long memories.
Off topic, but I just looked up the history of Reverie, TN. I have lived in West TN most of my life and never knew there were cities across the MS river. Fascinating
There are parts of the State of Mississippi accessible by road only from Louisiana.....probably the other way around as well.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - Owl 69/70/75 - 08-27-2018 06:18 PM
There are a number of quirks up and down the Mississippi as the channel has shifted over the years.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - olliebaba - 08-27-2018 07:27 PM
(08-27-2018 04:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:(08-27-2018 04:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: A great story on how he fought his demons and turned relations around with a country he carpet bombed until being caught and tortured for 5 years. Just goes to show anyone can change.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/27/how-vietnam-has-reacted-death-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4cd7f8044851
He didn't "carpet bomb." He flew A-7s. You don't carpet bomb with A-7s.
He flew the A-4E Skyhawk in Viet Nam. Quite different from the A7. But you're right, you don't carpet bomb with an A-4 either.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - Owl 69/70/75 - 08-27-2018 08:16 PM
(08-27-2018 07:27 PM)olliebaba Wrote:(08-27-2018 04:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:He flew the A-4E Skyhawk in Viet Nam. Quite different from the A7. But you're right, you don't carpet bomb with an A-4 either.(08-27-2018 04:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: A great story on how he fought his demons and turned relations around with a country he carpet bombed until being caught and tortured for 5 years. Just goes to show anyone can change.He didn't "carpet bomb." He flew A-7s. You don't carpet bomb with A-7s.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/27/how-vietnam-has-reacted-death-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4cd7f8044851
You're right. VA-163 was an A-4 squadron. Should have known better, a distant cousin was CO of the squadron when McCain was shot down.
A-7's had just been introduced to the fleet when McCain was shot down. I did my 3/c cruise on Ranger in summer of 1967, and they were brand new then. Brain fart.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - bullet - 08-27-2018 08:25 PM
(08-27-2018 06:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: There are a number of quirks up and down the Mississippi as the channel has shifted over the years.
Same with the Ohio River and the Kentucky/Indiana/Missouri borders.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - Captain Bearcat - 08-27-2018 09:31 PM
(08-27-2018 08:25 PM)bullet Wrote:(08-27-2018 06:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: There are a number of quirks up and down the Mississippi as the channel has shifted over the years.
Same with the Ohio River and the Kentucky/Indiana/Missouri borders.
No. Totally different.
According to the Northwest Ordinance, the entire Ohio River belongs to Kentucky. A Supreme Court decision in 1820 placed this border at the Low Water mark for the River. After they dammed the Ohio (1910-1925), the river level rose in most places. Kentucky used this to increase its claim, but in 1980 another Supreme Court decision put the boundary at the 1792 Low Water mark.
This would seem to make room for a situation like on the Mississippi. But the fact is the Ohio never shifted course like the Mississippi did because the vast majority of the Ohio has hills right up to the river (unlike the Mississippi River). The only major exceptions were where they founded cities - Cincinnati is by far the largest flat area on the river, followed by Evansville, Portsmouth, Lunken (now a neighborhood of Cincy), Lawrenceburg (now a Cincy suburb), Paducah, Owensboro, Huntington, Cairo, and to a lesser extent, Louisville and Pittsburgh (which grew big more due to their strategic locations rather than their flat land). None of those areas (to my knowledge) has any parts of Kentucky that are North of the river.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - shere khan - 08-27-2018 09:57 PM
(08-27-2018 09:31 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:Because the Indiana-Kentucky border is defined as the low-water mark on the north bank of the Ohio River as of 1792, and because the river changed course as a result of the New Madrid earthquake of 1812, a small portion of Henderson County (approximately 4 miles (6 km) long and 1 mile (1.6 km) wide), lies north of the current course of the river in what would appear to be part of Indiana. Both the Bi-State Vietnam Gold Star Bridges and the Ellis Park Race Course horse racing track are located entirely within Kentucky. The racetrack uses Indiana's 812 area code despite officially being located in Kentucky.(08-27-2018 08:25 PM)bullet Wrote:(08-27-2018 06:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: There are a number of quirks up and down the Mississippi as the channel has shifted over the years.
Same with the Ohio River and the Kentucky/Indiana/Missouri borders.
No. Totally different.
According to the Northwest Ordinance, the entire Ohio River belongs to Kentucky. A Supreme Court decision in 1820 placed this border at the Low Water mark for the River. After they dammed the Ohio (1910-1925), the river level rose in most places. Kentucky used this to increase its claim, but in 1980 another Supreme Court decision put the boundary at the 1792 Low Water mark.
This would seem to make room for a situation like on the Mississippi. But the fact is the Ohio never shifted course like the Mississippi did because the vast majority of the Ohio has hills right up to the river (unlike the Mississippi River). The only major exceptions were where they founded cities - Cincinnati is by far the largest flat area on the river, followed by Evansville, Portsmouth, Lunken (now a neighborhood of Cincy), Lawrenceburg (now a Cincy suburb), Paducah, Owensboro, Huntington, Cairo, and to a lesser extent, Louisville and Pittsburgh (which grew big more due to their strategic locations rather than their flat land). None of those areas (to my knowledge) has any parts of Kentucky that are North of the river.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - Kaplony - 08-27-2018 10:05 PM
IMO. McCain is just like John Kerry. I salute the service they gave in uniform and hate the fact they couldn't have been as honorable in their political career.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - cb4029 - 08-27-2018 10:12 PM
(08-27-2018 10:05 PM)Kaplony Wrote: IMO. McCain is just like John Kerry. I salute the service they gave in uniform and hate the fact they couldn't have been as honorable in their political career.
Yet, here you are supporting someone who has respect for no one. Only cares about himself. You must be very confused.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - WKUYG - 08-27-2018 10:19 PM
Did not care for the man while he was alive and that does not change with his death. I think he was a user and every move he made in life were with what was best for Mccain. That includes his service to his country. If the #metoo movement took a close look at his life.....
the man would not be able to show his face in public. But that is not why I disliked him, I chalk that up to the times back then and a different relationship between males and females.
He was a pure 100% ******* most of his life and I dont think that change the closer he got to death
RE: McCain and Vietnam - Captain Bearcat - 08-27-2018 10:41 PM
(08-27-2018 09:57 PM)shere khan Wrote:(08-27-2018 09:31 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:Because the Indiana-Kentucky border is defined as the low-water mark on the north bank of the Ohio River as of 1792, and because the river changed course as a result of the New Madrid earthquake of 1812, a small portion of Henderson County (approximately 4 miles (6 km) long and 1 mile (1.6 km) wide), lies north of the current course of the river in what would appear to be part of Indiana. Both the Bi-State Vietnam Gold Star Bridges and the Ellis Park Race Course horse racing track are located entirely within Kentucky. The racetrack uses Indiana's 812 area code despite officially being located in Kentucky.(08-27-2018 08:25 PM)bullet Wrote:(08-27-2018 06:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: There are a number of quirks up and down the Mississippi as the channel has shifted over the years.
Same with the Ohio River and the Kentucky/Indiana/Missouri borders.
No. Totally different.
According to the Northwest Ordinance, the entire Ohio River belongs to Kentucky. A Supreme Court decision in 1820 placed this border at the Low Water mark for the River. After they dammed the Ohio (1910-1925), the river level rose in most places. Kentucky used this to increase its claim, but in 1980 another Supreme Court decision put the boundary at the 1792 Low Water mark.
This would seem to make room for a situation like on the Mississippi. But the fact is the Ohio never shifted course like the Mississippi did because the vast majority of the Ohio has hills right up to the river (unlike the Mississippi River). The only major exceptions were where they founded cities - Cincinnati is by far the largest flat area on the river, followed by Evansville, Portsmouth, Lunken (now a neighborhood of Cincy), Lawrenceburg (now a Cincy suburb), Paducah, Owensboro, Huntington, Cairo, and to a lesser extent, Louisville and Pittsburgh (which grew big more due to their strategic locations rather than their flat land). None of those areas (to my knowledge) has any parts of Kentucky that are North of the river.
I didn't know about that one. But those 4 square miles has only a racetrack in it, not a town with any inhabitants in it. It's also connected to KY by a bridge. That's two huge differences.
Also, nearly all bridges over the Ohio River are completely owned by KY.
In fact, it formed the basis for one of Cincinnati's most famous criminal cases in recent years: 3-year old Marcus Fiesel was reported missing in 2006 by his foster parents. A citywide manhunt ensued, with tens of thousands of volunteers. After several weeks, Amy Baker, the live-in girlfriend of Fiesel's foster parents, signed a plea deal with Ohio prosecutors granting her immunity in return for her testimony that Fiesel's foster parents murdered Fiesel. A few weeks later it became clear that Baker had masterminded the whole operation, and then dumped Fiesel's body in the River. Public anger at Baker led Kentucky prosecutors to charge her with tempering with evidence, because her lawyer apparently forgot that the Ohio River is entirely within the borders of Kentucky (and her plea deal was with Ohio). The case dragged out for a couple years before they finally dropped the charges due to uncertainty about where exactly in the river the body was dropped (was it really in KY?) and about whether the KY prosecutor was in the room when the plea deal with OH was reached.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - olliebaba - 08-27-2018 10:44 PM
(08-27-2018 08:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:(08-27-2018 07:27 PM)olliebaba Wrote:(08-27-2018 04:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:He flew the A-4E Skyhawk in Viet Nam. Quite different from the A7. But you're right, you don't carpet bomb with an A-4 either.(08-27-2018 04:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: A great story on how he fought his demons and turned relations around with a country he carpet bombed until being caught and tortured for 5 years. Just goes to show anyone can change.He didn't "carpet bomb." He flew A-7s. You don't carpet bomb with A-7s.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/27/how-vietnam-has-reacted-death-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4cd7f8044851
You're right. VA-163 was an A-4 squadron. Should have known better, a distant cousin was CO of the squadron when McCain was shot down.
A-7's had just been introduced to the fleet when McCain was shot down. I did my 3/c cruise on Ranger in summer of 1967, and they were brand new then. Brain fart.
To me the A7 was the little brother to the F8. Almost identical.
RE: McCain and Vietnam - Kaplony - 08-27-2018 10:45 PM
(08-27-2018 10:12 PM)cb4029 Wrote:(08-27-2018 10:05 PM)Kaplony Wrote: IMO. McCain is just like John Kerry. I salute the service they gave in uniform and hate the fact they couldn't have been as honorable in their political career.
Yet, here you are supporting someone who has respect for no one. Only cares about himself. You must be very confused.
For someone who only cares about himself he's put more money in my bank account than his predecessors. He's pushing more to fix the problems in the communities around here more than his predecessors by stemming illegal immigration and fixing trade imbalances. He's dedicated to ridding me of one of the biggest albatrosses on my financial security by keeping the government from stealing my money to pay for someone else's healthcare.
That's a lot of selfless acts for someone who only thinks of himself. A lot more than his predecessors.