Quote:Canada retaliated Sunday for U.S. tariffs on steel and aluminum by inaugurating tariffs on $12.6 billion in U.S. goods.

The Associated Press reported: “Some U.S. products, mostly steel and iron, face 25 percent tariffs, the same penalty the United States slapped on imported steel at the end of May. Other U.S. imports, from ketchup to pizza to dishwasher detergent, will face a 10 percent tariff at the Canadian border, the same as America’s tax on imported aluminum.”

UPI added: “The new tariffs place a 25 percent tax on more than 40 U.S. steel products and a tax of 10 percent on more than 80 other items such as toffee, maple syrup, coffee beans and strawberry jam.”

(07-01-2018 07:46 PM)BuffaloTN Wrote:  That's gonna leave a mark.

(07-01-2018 07:55 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Let's be honest, if we had free trade, there would be NO "special taxes" on US goods going to Canada and NO government subsidies to make Canadian goods cheaper in the US. Canada has been stacking the deck against US businesses for the benefit of Canadian businesses.

(07-01-2018 07:55 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  Let's be honest, if we had free trade, there would be NO "special taxes" on US goods going to Canada and NO government subsidies to make Canadian goods cheaper in the US. Canada has been stacking the deck against US businesses for the benefit of Canadian businesses.

(07-01-2018 08:28 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  I'm sick and tired of blue collar Americans being screwed over and having a lower and lower standard of living.
Whatever helps them make more money and have a nicer standard of living, I support.
Simple as that.

(07-01-2018 08:33 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 08:28 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  I'm sick and tired of blue collar Americans being screwed over and having a lower and lower standard of living.
Whatever helps them make more money and have a nicer standard of living, I support.
Simple as that.

See my post above you for one idea of how to go.

(07-01-2018 10:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  A consumption/federal tax would have to be in the 12 to 15% range to work. So lets start at 12% and a person in Tenn is now paying 22% of their income just on consumption.

But lets not kid ourself....that tax will increase every few years and would be no different than in the UK where the tax stared out at 10% in 1973 and its double that. Not only doubled but taxes just about everything.

So what is not taxed? Is anyone exempted? So now a person living on $1700 a month from SS is going to lose another 12% (without any state tax) on everything they buy? Are we going to tax homes? That 25,000 dollar new car is now cost $28,000. I wonder what that does for new car sales?

So do we tax second hand sales, like used cars, or clothes, or any number of items? If not you will see a slow down in spending on new items. Lot cheaper buying used. How about food is that going to be taxed? I would think so on eating out. So now your family goes out and eats at $15 a plate dinner and that $60 is $67 and you still get to add in another 15 to 20% for the tip. So now that $15 a plate ends up costing almost $80.

I understand 12% is lower than what most of middle America is paying in income tax....but now you are paying 12% on ALL money spent which today is almost all income...very little savings. The working class gets poorer.

Then you will create a large black market on resales. Hell if something is taxed everytime its sold by the time its no longer worth anything taxes collected on it will be in the 24 to 36% range...resold 2 to 3


Without exemptions for the old and the poor it just makes both groups relying on government help.

(07-01-2018 10:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  A consumption/federal tax would have to be in the 12 to 15% range to work. So lets start at 12% and a person in Tenn is now paying 22% of their income just on consumption.
But lets not kid ourself....that tax will increase every few years and would be no different than in the UK where the tax stared out at 10% in 1973 and its double that. Not only doubled but taxes just about everything.
So what is not taxed? Is anyone exempted? So now a person living on $1700 a month from SS is going to lose another 12% (without any state tax) on everything they buy? Are we going to tax homes? That 25,000 dollar new car is now cost $28,000. I wonder what that does for new car sales?
So do we tax second hand sales, like used cars, or clothes, or any number of items? If not you will see a slow down in spending on new items. Lot cheaper buying used. How about food is that going to be taxed? I would think so on eating out. So now your family goes out and eats at $15 a plate dinner and that $60 is $67 and you still get to add in another 15 to 20% for the tip. So now that $15 a plate ends up costing almost $80.
I understand 12% is lower than what most of middle America is paying in income tax....but now you are paying 12% on ALL money spent which today is almost all income...very little savings. The working class gets poorer.
Then you will create a large black market on resales. Hell if something is taxed everytime its sold by the time its no longer worth anything taxes collected on it will be in the 24 to 36% range...resold 2 to 3
Without exemptions for the old and the poor it just makes both groups relying on government help.

(07-01-2018 10:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 10:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  A consumption/federal tax would have to be in the 12 to 15% range to work. So lets start at 12% and a person in Tenn is now paying 22% of their income just on consumption.

But lets not kid ourself....that tax will increase every few years and would be no different than in the UK where the tax stared out at 10% in 1973 and its double that. Not only doubled but taxes just about everything.

So what is not taxed? Is anyone exempted? So now a person living on $1700 a month from SS is going to lose another 12% (without any state tax) on everything they buy? Are we going to tax homes? That 25,000 dollar new car is now cost $28,000. I wonder what that does for new car sales?

So do we tax second hand sales, like used cars, or clothes, or any number of items? If not you will see a slow down in spending on new items. Lot cheaper buying used. How about food is that going to be taxed? I would think so on eating out. So now your family goes out and eats at $15 a plate dinner and that $60 is $67 and you still get to add in another 15 to 20% for the tip. So now that $15 a plate ends up costing almost $80.

I understand 12% is lower than what most of middle America is paying in income tax....but now you are paying 12% on ALL money spent which today is almost all income...very little savings. The working class gets poorer.

Then you will create a large black market on resales. Hell if something is taxed everytime its sold by the time its no longer worth anything taxes collected on it will be in the 24 to 36% range...resold 2 to 3


Without exemptions for the old and the poor it just makes both groups relying on government help.

Then a flat tax/fair tax.

15% across the board.

Nothing more.

No sales tax, no this, no that.

(07-01-2018 11:08 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 10:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 10:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  A consumption/federal tax would have to be in the 12 to 15% range to work. So lets start at 12% and a person in Tenn is now paying 22% of their income just on consumption.

But lets not kid ourself....that tax will increase every few years and would be no different than in the UK where the tax stared out at 10% in 1973 and its double that. Not only doubled but taxes just about everything.

So what is not taxed? Is anyone exempted? So now a person living on $1700 a month from SS is going to lose another 12% (without any state tax) on everything they buy? Are we going to tax homes? That 25,000 dollar new car is now cost $28,000. I wonder what that does for new car sales?

So do we tax second hand sales, like used cars, or clothes, or any number of items? If not you will see a slow down in spending on new items. Lot cheaper buying used. How about food is that going to be taxed? I would think so on eating out. So now your family goes out and eats at $15 a plate dinner and that $60 is $67 and you still get to add in another 15 to 20% for the tip. So now that $15 a plate ends up costing almost $80.

I understand 12% is lower than what most of middle America is paying in income tax....but now you are paying 12% on ALL money spent which today is almost all income...very little savings. The working class gets poorer.

Then you will create a large black market on resales. Hell if something is taxed everytime its sold by the time its no longer worth anything taxes collected on it will be in the 24 to 36% range...resold 2 to 3


Without exemptions for the old and the poor it just makes both groups relying on government help.

Then a flat tax/fair tax.

15% across the board.

Nothing more.

No sales tax, no this, no that.

The old and the poor will be exempted for any flatrate tax will pass. There's no ifs ans or buts to it.

I thought you were for blue collar workers? On 80k a flat rate would be $12,000. According to this calculator your federal taxes would be 5,259.00. That is for filing jointly with 2 children and putting $8,000 into your 401k

I did not use any other deductions

I'm not a tax person so I don't know if that's correct or not .......http://us.icalculator.info/tax-calculator/annual.html

I put the following into it and again I dont have a clue if its correct but assume it is

(07-01-2018 11:15 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 11:08 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 10:37 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 10:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  A consumption/federal tax would have to be in the 12 to 15% range to work. So lets start at 12% and a person in Tenn is now paying 22% of their income just on consumption.

But lets not kid ourself....that tax will increase every few years and would be no different than in the UK where the tax stared out at 10% in 1973 and its double that. Not only doubled but taxes just about everything.

So what is not taxed? Is anyone exempted? So now a person living on $1700 a month from SS is going to lose another 12% (without any state tax) on everything they buy? Are we going to tax homes? That 25,000 dollar new car is now cost $28,000. I wonder what that does for new car sales?

So do we tax second hand sales, like used cars, or clothes, or any number of items? If not you will see a slow down in spending on new items. Lot cheaper buying used. How about food is that going to be taxed? I would think so on eating out. So now your family goes out and eats at $15 a plate dinner and that $60 is $67 and you still get to add in another 15 to 20% for the tip. So now that $15 a plate ends up costing almost $80.

I understand 12% is lower than what most of middle America is paying in income tax....but now you are paying 12% on ALL money spent which today is almost all income...very little savings. The working class gets poorer.

Then you will create a large black market on resales. Hell if something is taxed everytime its sold by the time its no longer worth anything taxes collected on it will be in the 24 to 36% range...resold 2 to 3


Without exemptions for the old and the poor it just makes both groups relying on government help.

Then a flat tax/fair tax.

15% across the board.

Nothing more.

No sales tax, no this, no that.

The old and the poor will be exempted for any flatrate tax will pass. There's no ifs ans or buts to it.

I thought you were for blue collar workers? On 80k a flat rate would be $12,000. According to this calculator your federal taxes would be 5,259.00. That is for filing jointly with 2 children and putting $8,000 into your 401k

I did not use any other deductions

I'm not a tax person so I don't know if that's correct or not .......http://us.icalculator.info/tax-calculator/annual.html

I put the following into it and again I dont have a clue if its correct but assume it is

Then get rid of the income tax altogether then. Wouldn't hurt my feelings.