+- CSNbbs (https://csnbbs.com)
+-- Forum: Active Boards (/forum-769.html)
+--- Forum: Lounge (/forum-564.html)
+---- Forum: College Sports and Conference Realignment (/forum-637.html)
+---- Thread: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' (/thread-844866.html)
Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - GoldenWarrior11 - 03-08-2018 10:47 AM
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2018/03/07/big-east-college-basketball-conference-expansion-commissioner-val-ackerman-ncaa-tournament-final/402788002/
“We’re open to it (expansion) if we can find the right school or schools. There’s no need in our minds right now, at least near-term,” Ackerman said. “The 10 schools have been a very cohesive group. We’re getting done what we’re trying to get done in terms of basketball relevance.
“If there were schools out there that fit the bill...we would be open to it but right now we’re sort of standing pat at 10."
Nothing really earth-shattering, but realignment-news-worthy nevertheless. I still believe the Big East waits closer until its current TV deal expires to look to seriously add another program or two. The other benefit to this strategy is that it allows them to see what happens with UConn over the next few years. With regards to her comment about geography, it is clear that Gonzaga is not under any consideration whatsoever, and that Creighton (Omaha) is going to be the boundary.
Until then, Saint Louis and Dayton (and a few others) should continue to heavily invest into their men's basketball programs. They will have a strong opportunity to get an invitation if they play their cards right, and get the success needed to be considered on the court.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - bullet - 03-08-2018 10:51 AM
Richmond is another school that has a possibility. Don't think any schools in upstate NY or Boston have enough history and fan support, but those are other logical areas for the BE to expand. Detroit Mercy as well, but they haven't had sufficient success.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - Wedge - 03-08-2018 11:01 AM
Rookie sportswriter mistake.
You're supposed to put the canned "We like where we're at but we're open to expansion if the right fit comes along" articles on the shelf and run them after March Madness and before the start of the football season, when things are really slow for college sports writers.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - bluesox - 03-08-2018 11:17 AM
I would add St. Louis and umass right now. If uconn wants to join bring them and Dayton in.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - loki_the_bubba - 03-08-2018 11:22 AM
(03-08-2018 11:17 AM)bluesox Wrote: I would add St. Louis and umass right now. If uconn wants to join bring them and Dayton in.
Why would a tight-knit group of Catholic schools who care only about basketball want to add UMass, a large public school that is still chasing the FBS dream? If UMass and UCONN both dropped to FCS then have the discussion. But not yet.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - GoldenWarrior11 - 03-08-2018 11:32 AM
If I had to put potential candidates into tiers, I would categorize them as the following:
Dream Candidates
UConn - Football and membership in the AAC will continue to be a big question mark; Shares past conference affiliation w/ VU, GU, SJ, SH and PU; regional fit.
Serious Candidates/Peers
Saint Louis - Institutional fit; strong new media market; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members;
Dayton - Institutional fit; strong fan base; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members; Xavier might block them;
Wild Cards
Davidson - Strong men's basketball program; new market in North Carolina; Private Liberal Arts College; Small enrollment;
Richmond - Huge endowment; Private university; nice facilities; Lack of past success in men's basketball is a concern; however resources will always be there.
VCU - Public university; strong commitment to men's basketball; great facilities; strong academics; Would likely only be added if paired with a UConn;
Remote Long-term Candidates
Duquesne - Institutional-fit; big urban location (Pittsburgh); poor commitment to men's basketball; lower endowment;
Fordham - Institutional-fit; strong academics; big urban location (New York); poor men's basketball program; small arena;
St. Bonaventure - Institutional-fit; small rural location; poor endowment; inconsistent men's basketball program; lack of postseason appearances/success
Detroit - Institutional-fit; big metro area; poor men's basketball program;
Siena - Private school; liberal arts college; large arena; suburban campus; inconsistent men's basketball program and lack of postseason success;
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - Cyniclone - 03-08-2018 01:43 PM
"Nothing on the Horizon" = sorry, Northern Kentucky and Cleveland State
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - MissouriStateBears - 03-08-2018 01:46 PM
(03-08-2018 11:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: If I had to put potential candidates into tiers, I would categorize them as the following:
Dream Candidates
UConn - Football and membership in the AAC will continue to be a big question mark; Shares past conference affiliation w/ VU, GU, SJ, SH and PU; regional fit.
Serious Candidates/Peers
Saint Louis - Institutional fit; strong new media market; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members;
Dayton - Institutional fit; strong fan base; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members; Xavier might block them;
Wild Cards
Davidson - Strong men's basketball program; new market in North Carolina; Private Liberal Arts College; Small enrollment;
Richmond - Huge endowment; Private university; nice facilities; Lack of past success in men's basketball is a concern; however resources will always be there.
VCU - Public university; strong commitment to men's basketball; great facilities; strong academics; Would likely only be added if paired with a UConn;
Remote Long-term Candidates
Duquesne - Institutional-fit; big urban location (Pittsburgh); poor commitment to men's basketball; lower endowment;
Fordham - Institutional-fit; strong academics; big urban location (New York); poor men's basketball program; small arena;
St. Bonaventure - Institutional-fit; small rural location; poor endowment; inconsistent men's basketball program; lack of postseason appearances/success
Detroit - Institutional-fit; big metro area; poor men's basketball program;
Siena - Private school; liberal arts college; large arena; suburban campus; inconsistent men's basketball program and lack of postseason success;
It's a shame you couldn't swap Dayton and Duquesne's basketball programs.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - IWokeUpLikeThis - 03-08-2018 01:49 PM
Dayton reminds me of Wichita. The Flyers and Shockers are THE identity of a top 75 city. Especially with Dayton’s arena renovations, they’re the first Catholic if you expand. Dayton brings more than SLU.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - Stugray2 - 03-08-2018 01:59 PM
GoldenWarrior11,
Good assessment. Your remotes are more like resumes that get canned by the lowliest HR intern before the HR manager screens for the hiring manager. Your wild cards are long shots. They will get assessed, but that is likely as far as any of them go. That leaves three.
These three all have the proper budget investment, arena and fan base. Dayton however overlaps Xavier's turf which works against it. SLU has all the metrics to be a perennial power, but for some reason doesn't deliver. UConn has the football dilemma.
One thing you left out, is when a new TV contract gets worked out, 11 may be the number that works best. You keep round robin play, and add a home game for everyone, effectively increasing inventory 22% (90 to 110) for a 10% addition, which if the media deal is commensurate would add bump each schools take an additional 12% (factoring in the Big East office take, as a 12th share vs 11th share today). This makes sharing the NCAA credits easier with one instead of two "extra" schools. Note, the current media package only scales for adding a school, so 10% more with one. Needs a new deal to take into account greater inventory.
So yes, it probably just sits for a few more years, since the media package is what is needed.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - GoldenWarrior11 - 03-08-2018 03:38 PM
Thanks, Stugray.
I actually think Davidson is a very interesting long-term candidate. While I don't think they are serious contenders for an invitation today, I do think that they can be a very intriguing program down the road.
Firstly, they are in North Carolina - a huge basketball recruiting area and along the East Coast. For any serious expansion talks, SLU/UD will naturally be considered, but the original-five BE members (Villanova, Georgetown, St. Johns, Seton Hall and Providence) will aim to maintain the East Coast-centric identity of the league. It was the same reason that Richmond was floated around in 2013. Secondly, Davidson has a very stable and competitive men's basketball program. They have made the tournament thirteen times and have a recent Elite Eight appearance. They also have Steph Curry as an alumnus - who, to my knowledge - has provided much greater awareness and support for the program and school. ESPN has also ranked them as a top-50 basketball program of the last 50 years.
Having said all that, their enrollment will be a significant inhibitor. They have a very strong endowment, and are a top-ranked Liberal Arts school. Their arena (only) seats 5,200k, and they don't consistently get top crowds (like a Dayton or a VCU).
It will be fascinating to see where the program heads after Bob McKillop retires.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - Nerdlinger - 03-08-2018 03:53 PM
(03-08-2018 11:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: If I had to put potential candidates into tiers, I would categorize them as the following:
Dream Candidates
UConn - Football and membership in the AAC will continue to be a big question mark; Shares past conference affiliation w/ VU, GU, SJ, SH and PU; regional fit.
Serious Candidates/Peers
Saint Louis - Institutional fit; strong new media market; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members;
Dayton - Institutional fit; strong fan base; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members; Xavier might block them;
Wild Cards
Davidson - Strong men's basketball program; new market in North Carolina; Private Liberal Arts College; Small enrollment;
Richmond - Huge endowment; Private university; nice facilities; Lack of past success in men's basketball is a concern; however resources will always be there.
VCU - Public university; strong commitment to men's basketball; great facilities; strong academics; Would likely only be added if paired with a UConn;
Not that such a significant expansion is likely, but imagine the BE took all 6 of these candidates for a 16-team circuit. They could have a 4-team pod system wherein each team plays its 3 podmates twice and the rest once for a total of 18 conference games.
Northeast: Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, UConn
Atlantic: Georgetown, Richmond, VCU, Villanova
Central: Butler, Davidson, Dayton, Xavier
Midwest: Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, St. Louis
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - IWokeUpLikeThis - 03-08-2018 04:13 PM
.......the Peacocks? Wtf?
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - Hokie4Skins - 03-08-2018 04:13 PM
(03-08-2018 03:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:(03-08-2018 11:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: If I had to put potential candidates into tiers, I would categorize them as the following:
Dream Candidates
UConn - Football and membership in the AAC will continue to be a big question mark; Shares past conference affiliation w/ VU, GU, SJ, SH and PU; regional fit.
Serious Candidates/Peers
Saint Louis - Institutional fit; strong new media market; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members;
Dayton - Institutional fit; strong fan base; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members; Xavier might block them;
Wild Cards
Davidson - Strong men's basketball program; new market in North Carolina; Private Liberal Arts College; Small enrollment;
Richmond - Huge endowment; Private university; nice facilities; Lack of past success in men's basketball is a concern; however resources will always be there.
VCU - Public university; strong commitment to men's basketball; great facilities; strong academics; Would likely only be added if paired with a UConn;
Not that such a significant expansion is likely, but imagine the BE took all 6 of these candidates for a 16-team circuit. They could have a 4-team pod system wherein each team plays its 3 podmates twice and the rest once for a total of 18 conference games.
Northeast: Providence, Seton Hall, St. Peter's, UConn
Atlantic: Georgetown, Richmond, VCU, Villanova
Central: Butler, Davidson, Dayton, Xavier
Midwest: Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, St. Louis
St. Peter's sticks out like a sore thumb in that group.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - Nerdlinger - 03-08-2018 04:17 PM
(03-08-2018 04:13 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: St. Peter's sticks out like a sore thumb in that group.
Oops. I had the St. part right. :/
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - Fighting Muskie - 03-08-2018 04:25 PM
Dayton and St Louis for Midwestern adds.
Richmond and Davidson to spread the East Coast footprint south.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - Cyniclone - 03-08-2018 04:26 PM
(03-08-2018 04:13 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:(03-08-2018 03:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:(03-08-2018 11:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: If I had to put potential candidates into tiers, I would categorize them as the following:
Dream Candidates
UConn - Football and membership in the AAC will continue to be a big question mark; Shares past conference affiliation w/ VU, GU, SJ, SH and PU; regional fit.
Serious Candidates/Peers
Saint Louis - Institutional fit; strong new media market; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members;
Dayton - Institutional fit; strong fan base; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members; Xavier might block them;
Wild Cards
Davidson - Strong men's basketball program; new market in North Carolina; Private Liberal Arts College; Small enrollment;
Richmond - Huge endowment; Private university; nice facilities; Lack of past success in men's basketball is a concern; however resources will always be there.
VCU - Public university; strong commitment to men's basketball; great facilities; strong academics; Would likely only be added if paired with a UConn;
Not that such a significant expansion is likely, but imagine the BE took all 6 of these candidates for a 16-team circuit. They could have a 4-team pod system wherein each team plays its 3 podmates twice and the rest once for a total of 18 conference games.
Northeast: Providence, Seton Hall, St. Peter's, UConn
Atlantic: Georgetown, Richmond, VCU, Villanova
Central: Butler, Davidson, Dayton, Xavier
Midwest: Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, St. Louis
St. Peter's sticks out like a sore thumb in that group.
That'd be a fun thought exercise: What if you took a tiny low-major, like St. Peter's or Sacred Heart or Loyola (Md.), and stuck them in the Big East for 10 years. Would the rise in coaching interest and recruiting give them a chance at eventually being competitive?
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - Nerdlinger - 03-08-2018 04:34 PM
(03-08-2018 04:26 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: That'd be a fun thought exercise: What if you took a tiny low-major, like St. Peter's or Sacred Heart or Loyola (Md.), and stuck them in the Big East for 10 years. Would the rise in coaching interest and recruiting give them a chance at eventually being competitive?
It would certainly help.
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - bullet - 03-08-2018 05:22 PM
(03-08-2018 11:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: If I had to put potential candidates into tiers, I would categorize them as the following:
Dream Candidates
UConn - Football and membership in the AAC will continue to be a big question mark; Shares past conference affiliation w/ VU, GU, SJ, SH and PU; regional fit.
Serious Candidates/Peers
Saint Louis - Institutional fit; strong new media market; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members;
Dayton - Institutional fit; strong fan base; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members; Xavier might block them;
Wild Cards
Davidson - Strong men's basketball program; new market in North Carolina; Private Liberal Arts College; Small enrollment;
Richmond - Huge endowment; Private university; nice facilities; Lack of past success in men's basketball is a concern; however resources will always be there.
VCU - Public university; strong commitment to men's basketball; great facilities; strong academics; Would likely only be added if paired with a UConn;
Remote Long-term Candidates
Duquesne - Institutional-fit; big urban location (Pittsburgh); poor commitment to men's basketball; lower endowment;
Fordham - Institutional-fit; strong academics; big urban location (New York); poor men's basketball program; small arena;
St. Bonaventure - Institutional-fit; small rural location; poor endowment; inconsistent men's basketball program; lack of postseason appearances/success
Detroit - Institutional-fit; big metro area; poor men's basketball program;
Siena - Private school; liberal arts college; large arena; suburban campus; inconsistent men's basketball program and lack of postseason success;
Richmond has had quite a bit of success. They've been overshadowed recently by VCU, but Richmond had a streak of 9 years in the 80s and 90s with 8 20 win season. They reached the sweet 16 in 2011. They probably have had the most success of any non-P6 private school other than Dayton in the east (excluding schools like Holy Cross and NYU that don't play at a high level anymore).
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon' - Hokie4Skins - 03-09-2018 08:33 AM
(03-08-2018 04:26 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(03-08-2018 04:13 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:(03-08-2018 03:53 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:(03-08-2018 11:32 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: If I had to put potential candidates into tiers, I would categorize them as the following:
Dream Candidates
UConn - Football and membership in the AAC will continue to be a big question mark; Shares past conference affiliation w/ VU, GU, SJ, SH and PU; regional fit.
Serious Candidates/Peers
Saint Louis - Institutional fit; strong new media market; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members;
Dayton - Institutional fit; strong fan base; peer in academics; athletic program structured like other BE members; Xavier might block them;
Wild Cards
Davidson - Strong men's basketball program; new market in North Carolina; Private Liberal Arts College; Small enrollment;
Richmond - Huge endowment; Private university; nice facilities; Lack of past success in men's basketball is a concern; however resources will always be there.
VCU - Public university; strong commitment to men's basketball; great facilities; strong academics; Would likely only be added if paired with a UConn;
Not that such a significant expansion is likely, but imagine the BE took all 6 of these candidates for a 16-team circuit. They could have a 4-team pod system wherein each team plays its 3 podmates twice and the rest once for a total of 18 conference games.
Northeast: Providence, Seton Hall, St. Peter's, UConn
Atlantic: Georgetown, Richmond, VCU, Villanova
Central: Butler, Davidson, Dayton, Xavier
Midwest: Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, St. Louis
St. Peter's sticks out like a sore thumb in that group.
That'd be a fun thought exercise: What if you took a tiny low-major, like St. Peter's or Sacred Heart or Loyola (Md.), and stuck them in the Big East for 10 years. Would the rise in coaching interest and recruiting give them a chance at eventually being competitive?
A new arena would be a requirement, or share the Prudential Center with Seton Hall. Their current gym is like that of a high school.