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+------ Thread: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops (/thread-842839.html)
Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - CliftonAve - 02-14-2018 04:31 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-college-basketball-recruiting-rankings-2018-news-analysis-acc-big-ten-pac-12-sec-march-madness-bill-self/1cg31s83tibht15das9y00rxky?__twitter_impression=true
In a nutshell, Mike argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.
He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State and Gonzaga the rest are pretty much screwed.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - The Big O - 02-14-2018 05:04 PM
He's putting some spin on the story to suit his narrative. There is a gap mostly because the power conferences have added the top non power schools over the past 10 years. The underperforming non power schools were underperforming 10 years ago. He also suggests that schools who can't recruit top 100 talent can't be successful, which isn't true.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - jarr - 02-14-2018 05:10 PM
Now is the time more than ever to win a championship or at least make a final 4. Gonzaga got close last year. We need to keep pushing against the narrative that G5 schools are doomed. UCONN needs to step up their game.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - UCbball21 - 02-14-2018 06:34 PM
(02-14-2018 04:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-college-basketball-recruiting-rankings-2018-news-analysis-acc-big-ten-pac-12-sec-march-madness-bill-self/1cg31s83tibht15das9y00rxky?__twitter_impression=true
In a nutshell, Mike argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.
He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State and Gonzaga the rest are pretty much screwed.
There is absolutely cause to be concerned. This statistic is pretty damning...
Quote:In 1998, 67 percent of the top 100 prospects – as measured by the Recruiting Services Consensus Index (RSCI) -- committed to teams in the nation’s top six conferences: ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12.
By 2007, that percentage had increased to 89 percent.
In 2017, it was 95 percent.
That is why it is so critical for Memphis and UConn to revive their programs because right now the AAC is viewed as a 2nd tier league even though statistically they are a stronger league than the PAC-12 this year. It is absolutely hurting Cincinnati on the recruiting trail. Many top 150 prospects won't even consider Cincinnati because they don't play in the ACC or B1G. The UA, instead of Nike, affiliation probably hurts us a lot too but nothing we can do about that (hopefully the FBI comes down hard on the major Nike schools but they probably won't).
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - jarr - 02-14-2018 06:42 PM
(02-14-2018 06:34 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:(02-14-2018 04:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-college-basketball-recruiting-rankings-2018-news-analysis-acc-big-ten-pac-12-sec-march-madness-bill-self/1cg31s83tibht15das9y00rxky?__twitter_impression=true
In a nutshell, Mike argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.
He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State and Gonzaga the rest are pretty much screwed.
There is absolutely cause to be concerned. This statistic is pretty damning...
Quote:In 1998, 67 percent of the top 100 prospects – as measured by the Recruiting Services Consensus Index (RSCI) -- committed to teams in the nation’s top six conferences: ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12.
By 2007, that percentage had increased to 89 percent.
In 2017, it was 95 percent.
That is why it is so critical for Memphis and UConn to revive their programs because right now the AAC is viewed as a 2nd tier league even though statistically they are a stronger league than the PAC-12 this year. It is absolutely hurting Cincinnati on the recruiting trail.
With that said, recruiting in general seems to be funneling all the best players to just a few programs, in both football and basketball. Not just P5. It's amazing how many of the top 50-60 players end up at only a handfull of schools. It didn't used to be this bad, at least not in the 90's and 00's. I think it might be the Lebron/Warriors effect. It's in fashion to be on a super team instead of blazing your own trail.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - JackieTreehorn - 02-14-2018 08:08 PM
So the next time someone starts pissing and moaning about Mick not recruiting enough 5 star McDonald's All-Americans, just remember the part where 95% of the top 100 players are going to P5 schools.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - jarr - 02-14-2018 08:27 PM
According to 247. There are only 2 AAC players even in the top 150 for next year (#94-Houston and #143 Wichita).
Wake Forest, Providence, Creighton, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State. Each one of those schools has more top 150 players than the entire AAC combined, let that sink in...
And then you have the Dukes, UK's, KU's, and UNC's of the world swallowing up the top 25 elite talent. It's crazy.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - CliftonAve - 02-14-2018 08:33 PM
(02-14-2018 08:27 PM)jarr Wrote: According to 247. There are only 2 AAC players even in the top 150 for next year (#94-Houston and #143 Wichita).
Wake Forest, Providence, Creighton, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State. Each one of those schools has more top 150 players than the entire AAC combined, let that sink in...
And then you have the Dukes, UK's, KU's, and UNC's of the world swallowing up the top 25 elite talent. It's crazy.
That’s the gist of his article- even Nebraska and Clemson, historically schools that are garbage BB programs (but great football) are getting good.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - Billy_Bearcat - 02-14-2018 08:40 PM
Doesn’t seem to be hurting X. Or is the New Big East P6?
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - CliftonAve - 02-14-2018 08:42 PM
(02-14-2018 08:40 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: Doesn’t seem to be hurting X. Or is the New Big East P6?
He’s lunping them in with them— the article references St. John’s.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - Billy_Bearcat - 02-14-2018 08:44 PM
(02-14-2018 08:42 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:(02-14-2018 08:40 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: Doesn’t seem to be hurting X. Or is the New Big East P6?
He’s lunping them in with them— the article references St. John’s.
Which is kinda strange since they are still making considerably less than any P5
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - CliftonAve - 02-14-2018 08:48 PM
(02-14-2018 08:44 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:(02-14-2018 08:42 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:(02-14-2018 08:40 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: Doesn’t seem to be hurting X. Or is the New Big East P6?
He’s lunping them in with them— the article references St. John’s.
Which is kinda strange since they are still making considerably less than any P5
Very true, although he kind of covers that with the paragraphs about the perception of levels. To be fair, I think he lumps UC, UConn, Gonzaga and a couple others in the same category with the BE but it is not clearly stated.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - Ragpicker - 02-14-2018 09:10 PM
The narrative sounds very familiar. Almost if I wrote it myself. Lol
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - jarr - 02-14-2018 09:15 PM
Being attached to the dregs of this league like ECU and Tulsa can't help. I feel like we would be better off just eliminating these teams. It would also be nice if USF didn't suck so bad at hoops, but they make up for it with football.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - Ragpicker - 02-14-2018 09:27 PM
(02-14-2018 06:34 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:(02-14-2018 04:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-college-basketball-recruiting-rankings-2018-news-analysis-acc-big-ten-pac-12-sec-march-madness-bill-self/1cg31s83tibht15das9y00rxky?__twitter_impression=true
In a nutshell, Mike argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.
He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State and Gonzaga the rest are pretty much screwed.
There is absolutely cause to be concerned. This statistic is pretty damning...
Quote:In 1998, 67 percent of the top 100 prospects – as measured by the Recruiting Services Consensus Index (RSCI) -- committed to teams in the nation’s top six conferences: ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12.
By 2007, that percentage had increased to 89 percent.
In 2017, it was 95 percent.
That is why it is so critical for Memphis and UConn to revive their programs because right now the AAC is viewed as a 2nd tier league even though statistically they are a stronger league than the PAC-12 this year. It is absolutely hurting Cincinnati on the recruiting trail. Many top 150 prospects won't even consider Cincinnati because they don't play in the ACC or B1G. The UA, instead of Nike, affiliation probably hurts us a lot too but nothing we can do about that (hopefully the FBI comes down hard on the major Nike schools but they probably won't).
UConn will only revive their program if they move to the ACC or the new Big East. The AAC has killed their ability to recruit in the Northeast. Memphis is just like Wichita - good teams that previously dominated weak leagues and now stumble against better competition. Memphis had to cheat to be dominant and got caught.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - BearcatJerry - 02-14-2018 09:31 PM
(02-14-2018 08:40 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: Doesn’t seem to be hurting X. Or is the New Big East P6?
Clearly the New Big East is the sixth "Power" (P6) Conference. They have been since they first redeveloped and secured a TV compensation deal that was similar to the other "Power" conferences sans Football. Not only that, if there were ever a "break" between the NCAA and the "Power" conferences, the Big East most certainly would be in that break.
It is what it is.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - rath v2.0 - 02-14-2018 10:24 PM
(02-14-2018 08:44 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:(02-14-2018 08:42 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:(02-14-2018 08:40 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote: Doesn’t seem to be hurting X. Or is the New Big East P6?
He’s lunping them in with them— the article references St. John’s.
Which is kinda strange since they are still making considerably less than any P5
They do alright with basketball revenue. Their TV deal is better than the ACC deal with football. With ncaa credits coming their way for long runs over a decent period of time.
UC just tries to break even. X spends more and clears a profit that is between 7 and 10 million each year. It was 7 mill in 2015 and has gone up.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - stpnum4 - 02-14-2018 10:32 PM
Could it be that the recruit rankings favor kids that commit to power conference schools? Kinda of like how a kid goes from being a 4 star and is dropped to a 3 star once they commit to UC football?
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - BearcatJerry - 02-14-2018 10:46 PM
(02-14-2018 10:32 PM)stpnum4 Wrote: Could it be that the recruit rankings favor kids that commit to power conference schools? Kinda of like how a kid goes from being a 4 star and is dropped to a 3 star once they commit to UC football?
I think it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Beyond the measurables, a lot of the recruiting rankings are subjective. So if a "big name" school (Ohio State in FB/Villanova in BB) gets excited about a kid, then the recruiting services perk up and "grade the kid up," because "obviously" the big/name programs must see something in the kid. Conversely, if the big/name programs pass on a kid or if the kid commits to a "smaller"/non-name school then the recruiting services "down grade" the kid because they think something along the lines of "Well, if the kid could have gone to OSU over Cincinnati, then why didn't they?"
So the OSU class (just to pick on OSU) automatically gets higher rankings. If a kid were on the margin of between a 3 or a 4 star, that OSU spot bumps them up. Conversely, if they are on the margin and end up at a non-major/non-name program, they get the negative bump.
FWIW, UC is a "Name" program in BB so I think we might well get the positive bump there. And if we start winning in football, I think Fickell gets us that bump on that front too.
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops - SuperFlyBCat - 02-14-2018 11:08 PM
(02-14-2018 04:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-college-basketball-recruiting-rankings-2018-news-analysis-acc-big-ten-pac-12-sec-march-madness-bill-self/1cg31s83tibht15das9y00rxky?__twitter_impression=true
In a nutshell, Mike argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.
He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State and Gonzaga the rest are pretty much screwed.
No different than the 1980's. BBall is a lot different than football. Anyway you can't get the next level riding the bench.