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+---- Thread: Kansas State coaching drama (/thread-833754.html)
Kansas State coaching drama - Hokie4Skins - 11-16-2017 12:56 PM
Jim Leavitt was set to be KSU's coach in waiting, but Bill Snyder is pushing for his son to be his replacement.
https://www.facebook.com/TheBrettMcMurphy/posts/1743061529051237
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - tcufrog86 - 11-16-2017 01:03 PM
Odd situation; Leavitt would have been a good get for them back in 05 when they hired Ron Prince. At this point he is 60....not sure if that is the right route for K-State to go after Bill Snyder.
At the same time, Sean Snyder is a big risk. He has no head coaching experience, heck he doesn't even have coordinator experience.
Despite relative success under Snyder, K-State remains one of the harder places to win in P5 football. They dropped way off when Ron Prince took over between Snyder's two stints as HC. I wouldn't want to be their AD trying to work through this situation.
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - ken d - 11-16-2017 01:25 PM
Hiring the retiring coach's son is never a good idea.
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - Kaplony - 11-16-2017 01:32 PM
(11-16-2017 01:03 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote: Odd situation; Leavitt would have been a good get for them back in 05 when they hired Ron Prince. At this point he is 60....not sure if that is the right route for K-State to go after Bill Snyder.
At the same time, Sean Snyder is a big risk. He has no head coaching experience, heck he doesn't even have coordinator experience.
Despite relative success under Snyder, K-State remains one of the harder places to win in P5 football. They dropped way off when Ron Prince took over between Snyder's two stints as HC. I wouldn't want to be their AD trying to work through this situation.
Neither did Dabo Swinney. Seen his record lately?
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - Wedge - 11-16-2017 01:35 PM
Making Sean Snyder head coach seems like a terrible idea.
On the other hand, Bill Snyder will still be around and will make life extremely difficult for any other head coach they hire.
It's an impossible dilemma for K-State.
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - Renandpat - 11-16-2017 01:35 PM
I think most of us knew this would occur, and John Currie fled to avoid dealing with it himself.
There's a reason why there typically are anti-nepotism rules set up for state employees, yet time and time again intercollegiate athletics is allowed to break them. Sean's been working there longer than Bill as he was still on staff in the Prince years.
Dennis Dodd back in May 2017:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/a-battle-rages-at-kansas-state-over-whether-bill-snyders-son-will-be-his-successor/
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - tcufrog86 - 11-16-2017 02:00 PM
(11-16-2017 01:32 PM)Kaplony Wrote:(11-16-2017 01:03 PM)tcufrog86 Wrote: Odd situation; Leavitt would have been a good get for them back in 05 when they hired Ron Prince. At this point he is 60....not sure if that is the right route for K-State to go after Bill Snyder.
At the same time, Sean Snyder is a big risk. He has no head coaching experience, heck he doesn't even have coordinator experience.
Despite relative success under Snyder, K-State remains one of the harder places to win in P5 football. They dropped way off when Ron Prince took over between Snyder's two stints as HC. I wouldn't want to be their AD trying to work through this situation.
Neither did Dabo Swinney. Seen his record lately?
Yes you can find examples to go against pretty much any statement, but I still think it is riskier hiring someone without coordinator or headcount experience than it is hiring someone with it. Of course there will be many successes and many failures from coaches who came up through either path.
That being said from a K-State perspective, a positive with Sean is that if he were to be successful he most likely isn't taking another job. Whereas pretty much any up and coming hot young coach will jump at a chance to leave Manhattan if they have success.
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - JRsec - 11-16-2017 02:41 PM
(11-16-2017 01:35 PM)Wedge Wrote: Making Sean Snyder head coach seems like a terrible idea.
On the other hand, Bill Snyder will still be around and will make life extremely difficult for any other head coach they hire.
It's an impossible dilemma for K-State.
It sure hasn't worked out in college hoops.
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - HeartOfDixie - 11-16-2017 02:51 PM
Jim would be a great choice.
Bill left before though and his last choice was Ron Prince.
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - BadgerMJ - 11-16-2017 03:03 PM
(11-16-2017 02:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:(11-16-2017 01:35 PM)Wedge Wrote: Making Sean Snyder head coach seems like a terrible idea.
On the other hand, Bill Snyder will still be around and will make life extremely difficult for any other head coach they hire.
It's an impossible dilemma for K-State.
It sure hasn't worked out in college hoops.
Pat Knight and Joey Meyer come to mind.
The biggest problem I see is that when you have a hall of fame level coach that basically holds their school "hostage" to hire their kid, it sets up a bad situation if/when the school ever needs to fire the kid.
Fire the kid, bad feelings result. It's a lose-lose situation for the school.
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - CliftonAve - 11-16-2017 03:06 PM
(11-16-2017 03:03 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:(11-16-2017 02:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:(11-16-2017 01:35 PM)Wedge Wrote: Making Sean Snyder head coach seems like a terrible idea.
On the other hand, Bill Snyder will still be around and will make life extremely difficult for any other head coach they hire.
It's an impossible dilemma for K-State.
It sure hasn't worked out in college hoops.
Pat Knight and Joey Meyer come to mind.
The biggest problem I see is that when you have a hall of fame level coach that basically holds their school "hostage" to hire their kid, it sets up a bad situation if/when the school ever needs to fire the kid.
Fire the kid, bad feelings result. It's a lose-lose situation for the school.
John Thompson III.
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - Wedge - 11-16-2017 03:10 PM
(11-16-2017 02:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:(11-16-2017 01:35 PM)Wedge Wrote: Making Sean Snyder head coach seems like a terrible idea.
On the other hand, Bill Snyder will still be around and will make life extremely difficult for any other head coach they hire.
It's an impossible dilemma for K-State.
It sure hasn't worked out in college hoops.
Funny thing is, I originally thought of a couple of college hoops examples where it was a disaster, but in those cases it worked out better than I thought.
Joey Meyer was 231-158 at DePaul and his teams made the NCAA tournament in 7 of his first 8 seasons. The team went way downhill after that, but it's hard to make the case that any average coach succeeding Ray Meyer would have done better at DePaul than Joey did in those first 8 years.
John Thompson III -- who had 4 years of head coaching experience at Princeton before taking dad's old job at Georgetown -- took his teams to the NCAA tournament in 8 of his first 11 seasons at Georgetown before having a losing record in each of his last two seasons. Again, not his dad's level of success, but he won a lot more at Georgetown than Craig Esherick, the coach who had the job between JTII and JTIII.
One of the best arguments against hiring the coach's son is that it's difficult to fire him when he's not getting the job done. DePaul held onto Joey Meyer too long and Ray Meyer erupted (and cut all ties with DePaul, IIRC) when Joey was finally let go. If K-State football craters under Sean Snyder, will Bill Snyder rally his supporters to go to war against the K-State administration for pushing Sean out? Probably.
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - Love and Honor - 11-16-2017 11:47 PM
(11-16-2017 03:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:(11-16-2017 02:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:(11-16-2017 01:35 PM)Wedge Wrote: Making Sean Snyder head coach seems like a terrible idea.
On the other hand, Bill Snyder will still be around and will make life extremely difficult for any other head coach they hire.
It's an impossible dilemma for K-State.
It sure hasn't worked out in college hoops.
Funny thing is, I originally thought of a couple of college hoops examples where it was a disaster, but in those cases it worked out better than I thought.
Joey Meyer was 231-158 at DePaul and his teams made the NCAA tournament in 7 of his first 8 seasons. The team went way downhill after that, but it's hard to make the case that any average coach succeeding Ray Meyer would have done better at DePaul than Joey did in those first 8 years.
John Thompson III -- who had 4 years of head coaching experience at Princeton before taking dad's old job at Georgetown -- took his teams to the NCAA tournament in 8 of his first 11 seasons at Georgetown before having a losing record in each of his last two seasons. Again, not his dad's level of success, but he won a lot more at Georgetown than Craig Esherick, the coach who had the job between JTII and JTIII.
One of the best arguments against hiring the coach's son is that it's difficult to fire him when he's not getting the job done. DePaul held onto Joey Meyer too long and Ray Meyer erupted (and cut all ties with DePaul, IIRC) when Joey was finally let go. If K-State football craters under Sean Snyder, will Bill Snyder rally his supporters to go to war against the K-State administration for pushing Sean out? Probably.
Not the same situation, but Miami's baseball coach Dan Hayden is the son of a wealthy donor who is our ballpark's namesake and chipped in even more money a few years ago for a new locker room complex. Hayden had a good first season, an awful second, and we were decent again last year.
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - JRsec - 11-16-2017 11:54 PM
(11-16-2017 11:47 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:(11-16-2017 03:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:(11-16-2017 02:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:(11-16-2017 01:35 PM)Wedge Wrote: Making Sean Snyder head coach seems like a terrible idea.
On the other hand, Bill Snyder will still be around and will make life extremely difficult for any other head coach they hire.
It's an impossible dilemma for K-State.
It sure hasn't worked out in college hoops.
Funny thing is, I originally thought of a couple of college hoops examples where it was a disaster, but in those cases it worked out better than I thought.
Joey Meyer was 231-158 at DePaul and his teams made the NCAA tournament in 7 of his first 8 seasons. The team went way downhill after that, but it's hard to make the case that any average coach succeeding Ray Meyer would have done better at DePaul than Joey did in those first 8 years.
John Thompson III -- who had 4 years of head coaching experience at Princeton before taking dad's old job at Georgetown -- took his teams to the NCAA tournament in 8 of his first 11 seasons at Georgetown before having a losing record in each of his last two seasons. Again, not his dad's level of success, but he won a lot more at Georgetown than Craig Esherick, the coach who had the job between JTII and JTIII.
One of the best arguments against hiring the coach's son is that it's difficult to fire him when he's not getting the job done. DePaul held onto Joey Meyer too long and Ray Meyer erupted (and cut all ties with DePaul, IIRC) when Joey was finally let go. If K-State football craters under Sean Snyder, will Bill Snyder rally his supporters to go to war against the K-State administration for pushing Sean out? Probably.
Not the same situation, but Miami's baseball coach Dan Hayden is the son of a wealthy donor who is our ballpark's namesake and chipped in even more money a few years ago for a new locker room complex. Hayden had a good first season, an awful second, and we were decent again last year.
S.O.B.'s (Sons of Bowden) and S.O.D. (Son of Dooley) did okay, but nothing like their fathers. But I have to admit that Tommy Bowden is truly a prince of a guy.
RE: Kansas State coaching drama - OdinFrigg - 11-18-2017 03:25 PM
Lou and Skip Holtz. Both have coached at multiple places. Skip is at LA Tech now. They were both at South Carolina. They were not happy that anticipated pass-off did not happen pre-Spurrier.