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Pages: 1 2
Seniors Leaving - Efan - 11-05-2017 06:45 AM
I'm a little disappointed that we've got so many players leaving who still have eligibility left. It's great that they'll obtain degrees and will likely be going to get jobs with those, after all, that's the whole point. But, they won't ever play college football again, and many of them will want that year back one day. When you look back on your life and if you had the ability to choose between 1 more year of working or playing another year of football, I know what most people would choose.
It's frustrating though because our whole model of building this program somewhat hinged on having these players around as 5th year seniors and then dominating the rest of the conference. Looks to me like we're losing an entire recruiting class. Not being at full scholarship level this year means not only did you have 15-20 for next year to give out, but probably will end up with another 15-20 available from the guys leaving, turning over HALF of your players on scholarship. Not good.
To me, that signals a change in philosophy is needed. Kennesaw seems to be doing just fine in their model. Matter of fact, I would gladly trade places with them and be in the FCS top 25 poll right now. So hopefully we'll go out and get a strong freshman class, but also recruit a significant number of jucos at key positions that are needed (RB, WR, etc). I bet that won't happen though, because Torbush has said over and over he is no fan of the juco route.
What has to happen is we will have to give out all 63 scholarships to somebody. That is a requirement to play Tennessee and get paid. So now I think we've got a problem, and we're going to end up rebuidling next year rather than the year after. Torbush can prove me wrong, but so far Kennesaw has proven their model is working better than ours.
RE: Seniors Leaving - brock20 - 11-05-2017 07:43 AM
I think there has to be some mistake. I could see the non scholarship red shirt junior players not coming back but the others I would think would want to use that last year of eligibility. Especially Powell and Stinson.
RE: Seniors Leaving - Efan - 11-05-2017 07:51 AM
Newspaper says we are losing quite a few starters, including Powell and Stinson.
http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/Football/2017/11/04/VMI-ETSU-football.html?ci=stream&lp=2&p=1
RE: Seniors Leaving - etsubuc - 11-05-2017 07:53 AM
I went back to look at a 2015 JC Press article that discussed scholarships. We must average 57 scholarship over the previous 2 years to get paid by UT. At that point (our first year) we had "47 players on scholarship, using 37.14 grants". I assume that means that some of the scholarships were partial? The same article said that we would be up to 57 scholarships by 2016 and 63 by 2017 to make sure we hit that average.
I do believe that we made the right decision to start with high school players and build the program this way, but I also believe that going forward, we shouldn't be worried about redshirting the freshman if they can make a difference during their first year.
The optimistic side is that we now have an established program, with specific needs we can target, and a stadium in place. With the availability of playing time, perhaps we can have a really strong recruiting class this season and upgrade our talent from the guys that are leaving. Especially at the juco level, seems like we could get some difference makers at the skill positions and the offensive line.
Seniors Leaving - ETSUfan1 - 11-05-2017 11:00 AM
Surprised at this as well. We may not have the senior laden roster that was predicted. Definitely gonna need people to step up at LB, RB, WR, and in the secondary.
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RE: Seniors Leaving - Buc66 - 11-05-2017 04:36 PM
Did these guys promise to finish their eligibility when redshirted? Glad they’ve graduated, and hope they’re headed into some great jobs, graduate school, or professional school. Like was stated earlier here, the incentive to give up once in a lifetime opportunity to play the game another year must be large for them. But, for a start up program, what are the NCAA (that wacko organization) rules for a 5th season of a start up program for those who finish their degree requirements at the end of the 4th year?
The Kennesaw model sure places ETSU’s model under a brighter spotlight. I have been somewhat suspect from the get go given the nature of today’s game. Perhaps the ETSU model was a bit unrealistic and dated.
Are there no Power Five or other FBS players currently riding the bench who would like to play some college ball? Aren’t they still eligible immediately?
RE: Seniors Leaving - Buckyball - 11-05-2017 04:37 PM
(11-05-2017 07:43 AM)brock20 Wrote: I think there has to be some mistake. I could see the non scholarship red shirt junior players not coming back but the others I would think would want to use that last year of eligibility. Especially Powell and Stinson.
I heard (grapevine) that Powell is planning on joining the Marines. If true, I would simply say Godspeed.
RE: Seniors Leaving - brock20 - 11-06-2017 07:42 AM
https://twitter.com/WJHL_Kane/status/927383825797337089
Torbush said if it hadn't have been senior day he would not have known some of them were leaving....
RE: Seniors Leaving - Buc66 - 11-06-2017 08:42 AM
(11-06-2017 07:42 AM)brock20 Wrote: https://twitter.com/WJHL_Kane/status/927383825797337089
Torbush said if it hadn't have been senior day he would not have known some of them were leaving....
So they planned senior day without his knowledge?
RE: Seniors Leaving - Land Pirate - 11-06-2017 02:08 PM
(11-06-2017 08:42 AM)Buc66 Wrote:(11-06-2017 07:42 AM)brock20 Wrote: https://twitter.com/WJHL_Kane/status/927383825797337089
Torbush said if it hadn't have been senior day he would not have known some of them were leaving....
So they planned senior day without his knowledge?
I would imagine he is suggesting that having senior day forced players to notify him of their intentions earlier than would otherwise be the case. Instead of waiting until next semester to tell Torbush that they would not return, they did so now (so that they could be recognized on Saturday). The number forgoing their last year of eligibility was simply more than he anticipated.
RE: Seniors Leaving - BucPerson - 11-06-2017 03:00 PM
Looking at next years roster there are 27 posiible seniors. Hope recruiting goes well this year. Will badly need to replace lots of experienced players from this and next years team.
RE: Seniors Leaving - etsuandpurdue3 - 11-06-2017 03:41 PM
Need to recruit FBS transfers and JUCO's heavily.
RE: Seniors Leaving - Buc66 - 11-06-2017 03:53 PM
Don’t want to go off the rails here. But, seems some handshake promises and verbal commitments might have gone up in smoke.
Back to recruiting. Not an expert, but don’t we need much improvement in the running game and defensive secondary for starters? Would a shift to the Forbes recruiting model work in FCS football? Again, are there any Power Five bench warmers out there who want to play some college football? Are there mechanisms for FBS players to legally put out feelers, and/or FCS coaches to legally put out feelers?
RE: Seniors Leaving - Buc76 - 11-06-2017 08:23 PM
Handshake promises and verbal commitments, what are you referring to?
The Bucs have 53 returning players that were listed on the three deep depth chart. There are only 4 RS JRS. leaving early that were starters.The Bucs lose 4 starters on offense and 4 on defense, hardly a high number to lose to graduation.
There are some excellent RS FR waiting in the wings and the recruiting this year should be the best class yet. The new stadium should be a huge recruiting asset.
To say the model isn't working is nonsense. When comparing Kennesaw to the Bucs, you forget they had a new stadium, are located in a hot bed of talent, were going into conference play their second year, have a versatile offense, played a first year schedule, unlike the Bucs who had to RS everyone, play no games their first year and have no home stadium till their third year.
Now if the Bucs don't win some games against the top tier ( Bucs had chance to beat Citadel and Wofford ) of the SoCon next year, IMO, it won't be because of lack of talent or the loss of RS JRS but lack of a versatile and non predictable offense.
RE: Seniors Leaving - Rusty - 11-07-2017 08:08 AM
(11-06-2017 08:23 PM)Buc76 Wrote: Handshake promises and verbal commitments, what are you referring to?
The Bucs have 53 returning players that were listed on the three deep depth chart. There are only 4 RS JRS. leaving early that were starters.The Bucs lose 4 starters on offense and 4 on defense, hardly a high number to lose to graduation.
There are some excellent RS FR waiting in the wings and the recruiting this year should be the best class yet. The new stadium should be a huge recruiting asset.
To say the model isn't working is nonsense. When comparing Kennesaw to the Bucs, you forget they had a new stadium, are located in a hot bed of talent, were going into conference play their second year, have a versatile offense, played a first year schedule, unlike the Bucs who had to RS everyone, play no games their first year and have no home stadium till their third year.
Now if the Bucs don't win some games against the top tier ( Bucs had chance to beat Citadel and Wofford ) of the SoCon next year, IMO, it won't be because of lack of talent or the loss of RS JRS but lack of a versatile and non predictable offense.
Spot on-we will be fine going into next year. If the RS JRS. don't want to finish out there eligibility, then let them go and it will free up scholarships for players that want to be in the program.
RE: Seniors Leaving - Rusty - 11-07-2017 08:08 AM
(11-06-2017 08:23 PM)Buc76 Wrote: Handshake promises and verbal commitments, what are you referring to?
The Bucs have 53 returning players that were listed on the three deep depth chart. There are only 4 RS JRS. leaving early that were starters.The Bucs lose 4 starters on offense and 4 on defense, hardly a high number to lose to graduation.
There are some excellent RS FR waiting in the wings and the recruiting this year should be the best class yet. The new stadium should be a huge recruiting asset.
To say the model isn't working is nonsense. When comparing Kennesaw to the Bucs, you forget they had a new stadium, are located in a hot bed of talent, were going into conference play their second year, have a versatile offense, played a first year schedule, unlike the Bucs who had to RS everyone, play no games their first year and have no home stadium till their third year.
Now if the Bucs don't win some games against the top tier ( Bucs had chance to beat Citadel and Wofford ) of the SoCon next year, IMO, it won't be because of lack of talent or the loss of RS JRS but lack of a versatile and non predictable offense.
Spot on-we will be fine going into next year. If the RS JRS. don't want to finish out there eligibility, then let them go and it will free up scholarships for players that want to be in the program.
RE: Seniors Leaving - Corn_3024 - 12-03-2017 12:25 PM
(11-06-2017 08:23 PM)Buc76 Wrote: Handshake promises and verbal commitments, what are you referring to?
The Bucs have 53 returning players that were listed on the three deep depth chart. There are only 4 RS JRS. leaving early that were starters.The Bucs lose 4 starters on offense and 4 on defense, hardly a high number to lose to graduation.
There are some excellent RS FR waiting in the wings and the recruiting this year should be the best class yet. The new stadium should be a huge recruiting asset.
To say the model isn't working is nonsense. When comparing Kennesaw to the Bucs, you forget they had a new stadium, are located in a hot bed of talent, were going into conference play their second year, have a versatile offense, played a first year schedule, unlike the Bucs who had to RS everyone, play no games their first year and have no home stadium till their third year.
Now if the Bucs don't win some games against the top tier ( Bucs had chance to beat Citadel and Wofford ) of the SoCon next year, IMO, it won't be because of lack of talent or the loss of RS JRS but lack of a versatile and non predictable offense.
Kennesaw and ETSU were in the exact same boat year one. We didn't play any games either. Then our first year of games, we played a Big South Schedule against Coastal, Liberty, Chuck South, Etc.
Some of the differences were in that second recruiting class. We went 50% transfers to get some age on board and split up recruiting classes. Then we graduate those guys and get more youth in future classes to help balance it out.
RE: Seniors Leaving - Buc66 - 12-04-2017 09:55 AM
(12-03-2017 12:25 PM)Corn_3024 Wrote:(11-06-2017 08:23 PM)Buc76 Wrote: Handshake promises and verbal commitments, what are you referring to?
The Bucs have 53 returning players that were listed on the three deep depth chart. There are only 4 RS JRS. leaving early that were starters.The Bucs lose 4 starters on offense and 4 on defense, hardly a high number to lose to graduation.
There are some excellent RS FR waiting in the wings and the recruiting this year should be the best class yet. The new stadium should be a huge recruiting asset.
To say the model isn't working is nonsense. When comparing Kennesaw to the Bucs, you forget they had a new stadium, are located in a hot bed of talent, were going into conference play their second year, have a versatile offense, played a first year schedule, unlike the Bucs who had to RS everyone, play no games their first year and have no home stadium till their third year.
Now if the Bucs don't win some games against the top tier ( Bucs had chance to beat Citadel and Wofford ) of the SoCon next year, IMO, it won't be because of lack of talent or the loss of RS JRS but lack of a versatile and non predictable offense.
Kennesaw and ETSU were in the exact same boat year one. We didn't play any games either. Then our first year of games, we played a Big South Schedule against Coastal, Liberty, Chuck South, Etc.
Some of the differences were in that second recruiting class. We went 50% transfers to get some age on board and split up recruiting classes. Then we graduate those guys and get more youth in future classes to help balance it out.
Kennesaw’s Model is looking rather good right now. At your pace, you’re headed for the Sun Belt when they expand again.
RE: Seniors Leaving - Buccaneerlover - 12-05-2017 01:39 AM
It'll be interesting to see how Kennesaw's APR shakes out after all this.
RE: Seniors Leaving - Buc66 - 12-05-2017 08:30 AM
(12-05-2017 01:39 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote: It'll be interesting to see how Kennesaw's APR shakes out after all this.
Our model wins the APR 961 to 939.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/5/10/15613274/ncaa-apr-scores-2017-bowl-eligibility