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RE: 2017 basketball - Monarchblue - 10-17-2017 12:42 PM
(10-17-2017 12:35 PM)odu09 Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:(10-17-2017 11:53 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: I'm confused (nothing new there) So the starting backcourt is Caver and Haynes? Has Green been been designated a 2? Where's Hueitt fit in at this point? Has the Greek kid shown anything that makes one believe he can help?
This does not sound great. We need Green on Hueitt to be really good for a freshman. The fact that the dude JJ sent packing prior to attrition is a starter, causes concern for me.
JJ didn't send Haynes packing.
Correct. If I recall, Haynes wanted out due to limited playing time and got his wish. Then Talley was dismissed and opened up that playing time again, and JJ talked Haynes into returning. I'd hate to open the can of worms on that whole subject again, but I believe the notion that JJ sent Haynes packing is false.
Whether he chose to leave because he wasn't going to get any playing time, or JJ encouraged him to move on because he wasn't going to get playing time, the point remains. This dude that was going to transfer because he couldn't find his way onto the court is starting over the 2 freshmen that we really need to be very good players this year. From afar, that is reason for concern.
RE: 2017 basketball - ODU True Blue - 10-17-2017 01:13 PM
(10-17-2017 12:42 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:35 PM)odu09 Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:(10-17-2017 11:53 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: I'm confused (nothing new there) So the starting backcourt is Caver and Haynes? Has Green been been designated a 2? Where's Hueitt fit in at this point? Has the Greek kid shown anything that makes one believe he can help?
This does not sound great. We need Green on Hueitt to be really good for a freshman. The fact that the dude JJ sent packing prior to attrition is a starter, causes concern for me.
JJ didn't send Haynes packing.
Correct. If I recall, Haynes wanted out due to limited playing time and got his wish. Then Talley was dismissed and opened up that playing time again, and JJ talked Haynes into returning. I'd hate to open the can of worms on that whole subject again, but I believe the notion that JJ sent Haynes packing is false.
Whether he chose to leave because he wasn't going to get any playing time, or JJ encouraged him to move on because he wasn't going to get playing time, the point remains. This dude that was going to transfer because he couldn't find his way onto the court is starting over the 2 freshmen that we really need to be very good players this year. From afar, that is reason for concern.
Yes you are afar.
Many people felt Talley was our best player. Yet he did not start for most of the season. But was great coming off the bench. Green in a similar role is not a statement on his ability in relation to Haynes.
RE: 2017 basketball - Monarchblue - 10-17-2017 01:19 PM
(10-17-2017 01:13 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:42 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:35 PM)odu09 Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: This does not sound great. We need Green on Hueitt to be really good for a freshman. The fact that the dude JJ sent packing prior to attrition is a starter, causes concern for me.
JJ didn't send Haynes packing.
Correct. If I recall, Haynes wanted out due to limited playing time and got his wish. Then Talley was dismissed and opened up that playing time again, and JJ talked Haynes into returning. I'd hate to open the can of worms on that whole subject again, but I believe the notion that JJ sent Haynes packing is false.
Whether he chose to leave because he wasn't going to get any playing time, or JJ encouraged him to move on because he wasn't going to get playing time, the point remains. This dude that was going to transfer because he couldn't find his way onto the court is starting over the 2 freshmen that we really need to be very good players this year. From afar, that is reason for concern.
Yes you are afar.
Many people felt Talley was our best player. Yet he did not start for most of the season. But was great coming off the bench. Green in a similar role is not a statement on his ability in relation to Haynes.
Yes, that is why I said "From afar". You know what else is far... our last NCAA tournament game.
"Some" may have thought that Talley was terrific, but I sure didn't. Also, in what world does it make since to keep one of your best players on the bench? #stoptheexcuses
RE: 2017 basketball - T-Mac - 10-17-2017 01:55 PM
(10-17-2017 01:19 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: "Some" may have thought that Talley was terrific, but I sure didn't. Also, in what world does it make since to keep one of your best players on the bench? #stoptheexcuses
When that player is more productive coming off the bench than starting...
RE: 2017 basketball - T-Mac - 10-17-2017 02:00 PM
(10-17-2017 12:34 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: I hope it means Haynes has improved a lot bc I was impressed with his athletic ability, but he played terrible last year and shot frequently like he was Steph Curry.
Kah being injured on top of McClinton hurts. Not sure BJ can legitimately play the 4, but I guess we will find out.
While I agree that Haynes' play was terrible, he showed a lot of potential, IMO. If he put it all together and can harness his athleticism and play under control, I can understand why he's beginning the season as a starter. Many reports have Green being in contention for our best player this season (probably a stretch). If he's struggling to beat out Haynes, hopefully that has far more to do with Haynes' progression since last year than Green being overhyped.
RE: 2017 basketball - jumpshooter - 10-17-2017 02:10 PM
Xavier Green was not over-hyped coming out of HS; how that translates to his play at D1 level will be seen over the coming year or so. I wouldn't panic about starting rotations and all yet; we've got a lot of similar pieces and I'll bet there will be a lot of personnel movement up and down.
RE: 2017 basketball - 84Monarch - 10-17-2017 03:01 PM
(10-17-2017 01:19 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:No one has said Green will be kept on the bench, just not starting. It has been and always be about minutes played and who is on the floor in the last seven minutes of a game(10-17-2017 01:13 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:42 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:35 PM)odu09 Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: JJ didn't send Haynes packing.
Correct. If I recall, Haynes wanted out due to limited playing time and got his wish. Then Talley was dismissed and opened up that playing time again, and JJ talked Haynes into returning. I'd hate to open the can of worms on that whole subject again, but I believe the notion that JJ sent Haynes packing is false.
Whether he chose to leave because he wasn't going to get any playing time, or JJ encouraged him to move on because he wasn't going to get playing time, the point remains. This dude that was going to transfer because he couldn't find his way onto the court is starting over the 2 freshmen that we really need to be very good players this year. From afar, that is reason for concern.
Yes you are afar.
Many people felt Talley was our best player. Yet he did not start for most of the season. But was great coming off the bench. Green in a similar role is not a statement on his ability in relation to Haynes.
Yes, that is why I said "From afar". You know what else is far... our last NCAA tournament game.
"Some" may have thought that Talley was terrific, but I sure didn't. Also, in what world does it make since to keep one of your best players on the bench? #stoptheexcuses
RE: 2017 basketball - Mr.BigBlue - 10-17-2017 03:04 PM
(10-17-2017 02:00 PM)T-Mac Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:34 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: I hope it means Haynes has improved a lot bc I was impressed with his athletic ability, but he played terrible last year and shot frequently like he was Steph Curry.
Kah being injured on top of McClinton hurts. Not sure BJ can legitimately play the 4, but I guess we will find out.
While I agree that Haynes' play was terrible, he showed a lot of potential, IMO. If he put it all together and can harness his athleticism and play under control, I can understand why he's beginning the season as a starter. Many reports have Green being in contention for our best player this season (probably a stretch). If he's struggling to beat out Haynes, hopefully that has far more to do with Haynes' progression since last year than Green being overhyped.
Haynes can flat play in a very open free flowing run and gun offense. If JJ puts the leash on him he will struggle. Haynes works really hard. Green is probably the most Athletic player we have. The question is can he turn that Athleticism into being a basketball player for us.
RE: 2017 basketball - 757ODU - 10-17-2017 03:07 PM
(10-17-2017 02:00 PM)T-Mac Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:34 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: I hope it means Haynes has improved a lot bc I was impressed with his athletic ability, but he played terrible last year and shot frequently like he was Steph Curry.
Kah being injured on top of McClinton hurts. Not sure BJ can legitimately play the 4, but I guess we will find out.
While I agree that Haynes' play was terrible, he showed a lot of potential, IMO. If he put it all together and can harness his athleticism and play under control, I can understand why he's beginning the season as a starter. Many reports have Green being in contention for our best player this season (probably a stretch). If he's struggling to beat out Haynes, hopefully that has far more to do with Haynes' progression since last year than Green being overhyped.
Haynes on-ball defense was outstanding. I feel like that flies wayyyy under the radar. He wasn't on the floor because of turnovers and shot selection.
RE: 2017 basketball - Monarchblue - 10-17-2017 03:08 PM
(10-17-2017 03:01 PM)84Monarch Wrote:(10-17-2017 01:19 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:No one has said Green will be kept on the bench, just not starting. It has been and always be about minutes played and who is on the floor in the last seven minutes of a game(10-17-2017 01:13 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:42 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:35 PM)odu09 Wrote: Correct. If I recall, Haynes wanted out due to limited playing time and got his wish. Then Talley was dismissed and opened up that playing time again, and JJ talked Haynes into returning. I'd hate to open the can of worms on that whole subject again, but I believe the notion that JJ sent Haynes packing is false.
Whether he chose to leave because he wasn't going to get any playing time, or JJ encouraged him to move on because he wasn't going to get playing time, the point remains. This dude that was going to transfer because he couldn't find his way onto the court is starting over the 2 freshmen that we really need to be very good players this year. From afar, that is reason for concern.
Yes you are afar.
Many people felt Talley was our best player. Yet he did not start for most of the season. But was great coming off the bench. Green in a similar role is not a statement on his ability in relation to Haynes.
Yes, that is why I said "From afar". You know what else is far... our last NCAA tournament game.
"Some" may have thought that Talley was terrific, but I sure didn't. Also, in what world does it make since to keep one of your best players on the bench? #stoptheexcuses
Yeah, that is what they say when someone who is expected to start isn't.
Look, I am sure Green and Hueitt will be fine players in time, but they are freshman. I am only speaking to the fact that a lot of folks thought we were going to exceed expectation due to their arrival. That, frankly, is pretty unreasonable at our level and the fact they are not starting and Haynes is seems to confirm that, for now at least. Those guys are like most good freshman, not ready to make a massive impact on a middle of the pack CUSA team.
RE: 2017 basketball - 757ODU - 10-17-2017 03:10 PM
(10-17-2017 03:08 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:(10-17-2017 03:01 PM)84Monarch Wrote:(10-17-2017 01:19 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:No one has said Green will be kept on the bench, just not starting. It has been and always be about minutes played and who is on the floor in the last seven minutes of a game(10-17-2017 01:13 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:42 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: Whether he chose to leave because he wasn't going to get any playing time, or JJ encouraged him to move on because he wasn't going to get playing time, the point remains. This dude that was going to transfer because he couldn't find his way onto the court is starting over the 2 freshmen that we really need to be very good players this year. From afar, that is reason for concern.
Yes you are afar.
Many people felt Talley was our best player. Yet he did not start for most of the season. But was great coming off the bench. Green in a similar role is not a statement on his ability in relation to Haynes.
Yes, that is why I said "From afar". You know what else is far... our last NCAA tournament game.
"Some" may have thought that Talley was terrific, but I sure didn't. Also, in what world does it make since to keep one of your best players on the bench? #stoptheexcuses
Yeah, that is what they say when someone who is expected to start isn't.
Look, I am sure Green and Hueitt will be fine players in time, but they are freshman. I am only speaking to the fact that a lot of folks thought we were going to exceed expectation due to their arrival. That, frankly, is pretty unreasonable at our level and the fact they are not starting and Haynes is, seems to confirm that, for now at least, those guys are like most good freshman, not ready to make a massive impact on a middle of the pack CUSA team.
Be careful about Haynes. The dude is super talented and if JJ is really letting them player faster, then he could be pretty good.
RE: 2017 basketball - Gilesfan - 10-17-2017 03:16 PM
Randy is certainly one of our better defenders. I just wish that he would (A) take good shots and (B) make them
RE: 2017 basketball - ODU BBALL - 10-17-2017 03:37 PM
(10-17-2017 03:16 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: Randy is certainly one of our better defenders. I just wish that he would (A) take good shots and (B) make them
I think that last sentence holds true for the entire team.
RE: 2017 basketball - Nukesquad - 10-17-2017 04:15 PM
(10-17-2017 03:08 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:(10-17-2017 03:01 PM)84Monarch Wrote:(10-17-2017 01:19 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:No one has said Green will be kept on the bench, just not starting. It has been and always be about minutes played and who is on the floor in the last seven minutes of a game(10-17-2017 01:13 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:(10-17-2017 12:42 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: Whether he chose to leave because he wasn't going to get any playing time, or JJ encouraged him to move on because he wasn't going to get playing time, the point remains. This dude that was going to transfer because he couldn't find his way onto the court is starting over the 2 freshmen that we really need to be very good players this year. From afar, that is reason for concern.
Yes you are afar.
Many people felt Talley was our best player. Yet he did not start for most of the season. But was great coming off the bench. Green in a similar role is not a statement on his ability in relation to Haynes.
Yes, that is why I said "From afar". You know what else is far... our last NCAA tournament game.
"Some" may have thought that Talley was terrific, but I sure didn't. Also, in what world does it make since to keep one of your best players on the bench? #stoptheexcuses
Yeah, that is what they say when someone who is expected to start isn't.
Look, I am sure Green and Hueitt will be fine players in time, but they are freshman. I am only speaking to the fact that a lot of folks thought we were going to exceed expectation due to their arrival. That, frankly, is pretty unreasonable at our level and the fact they are not starting and Haynes is seems to confirm that, for now at least. Those guys are like most good freshman, not ready to make a massive impact on a middle of the pack CUSA team.
Yes. Green and Hueitt are/will be great players, however that still doesn't take away the fact that they are green and need to continue to work on D1 basketball. They both will get minutes, but right now they aren't in the starting 5. All reports say that Randy has put in the work over the summer. I wish that he would have put the same work into all of last season, but regardless they say he's turned a corner.
RE: 2017 basketball - Gilesfan - 10-17-2017 04:26 PM
(10-17-2017 03:37 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:(10-17-2017 03:16 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: Randy is certainly one of our better defenders. I just wish that he would (A) take good shots and (B) make them
I think that last sentence holds true for the entire team.
Right. But, outside of Fields, Haynes was by far the worst shooter on the team.
RE: 2017 basketball - blewbyu - 10-17-2017 05:06 PM
(10-17-2017 04:26 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:(10-17-2017 03:37 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:(10-17-2017 03:16 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: Randy is certainly one of our better defenders. I just wish that he would (A) take good shots and (B) make them
I think that last sentence holds true for the entire team.
Right. But, outside of Fields, Haynes was by far the worst shooter on the team.
I just got home and tuned in to all the excellent commits regarding what I posted earlier and then I read this post and all I can say is WTF. Haynes is one of the better shooters we have.I'm sorry but come on Gilesy.
RE: 2017 basketball - Gilesfan - 10-17-2017 05:13 PM
Haynes shot 26% on 2 point jumpers last year and 26% on 3 pointers. He shot 63% on free throws.
He was our 2nd worst shooter outside of Fields last year. Hopefully, that improves.
RE: 2017 basketball - JJMonarch - 10-17-2017 06:29 PM
In all fairness to Haynes, he had a very rough start to the year. It was obvious he was struggling early with his confidence and trying to earn playing time. As the season progressed his contribution was much better and his shooting stroke improved. I haven't looked at a breakdown of the first half season vs second half but it was obvious he was much improved as the season went along.
RE: 2017 basketball - bigblue78 - 10-17-2017 07:10 PM
(10-17-2017 06:29 PM)JJMonarch Wrote: In all fairness to Haynes, he had a very rough start to the year. It was obvious he was struggling early with his confidence and trying to earn playing time. As the season progressed his contribution was much better and his shooting stroke improved. I haven't looked at a breakdown of the first half season vs second half but it was obvious he was much improved as the season went along.
Non-conference: 13.4 min; 16-63 FG (.253); 7-28 3s (.250); 6-9 FT (.667); 3.7 ppg
CUSA: 9.3 min; 17-48 FG (.354); 4-14 3s (.286); 4-7 FT (.571); 2.7 ppg (1.3 ppg last 7 games).
Haynes was high energy off the bench, but too frequently tried to beat his man off the dribble before the screens were set or the players in position to RB or give him passing options.
I do think he would be better suited in an open-court, up-tempo pace and would likely be an effective presser (or trapper in a zone).
RE: 2017 basketball - ODU BBALL - 10-17-2017 09:31 PM
(10-17-2017 04:26 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:(10-17-2017 03:37 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:(10-17-2017 03:16 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: Randy is certainly one of our better defenders. I just wish that he would (A) take good shots and (B) make them
I think that last sentence holds true for the entire team.
Right. But, outside of Fields, Haynes was by far the worst shooter on the team.
Should have left it at "Right". Fields is gone. Most of the team needs to improve their shooting percentage. No need to compare best, or worst, of the poor.