(08-06-2017 06:09 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If you want to see why some teams have a more valuable brand than others, start with this All-Time Top 25 composed by CFN:

Rank Team Points Conf
1 Oklahoma 927 Big 12
2 Ohio State 916 Big Ten
3 Alabama 895 SEC
4 Michigan 764 Big Ten
5 Nebraska 736 Big Ten
6 USC 715 Pac-12
7 Texas 691 Big 12
8 Penn State 671 Big Ten
9 Notre Dame 654 Ind
10 Florida State 617 ACC
11 Tennessee 551 SEC
12 Miami 504 ACC
13 LSU 499 SEC
14 Georgia 487 SEC
15 Auburn 480 SEC
16 UCLA 475 Pac-12
17 Florida 464 SEC
18 Arkansas 428 SEC
19 Michigan State 426 Big Ten
20 Wisconsin 367 Big Ten
21 Iowa 320 Big Ten
22 Ole Miss 319 SEC
23 Washington 304 Pac-12
24 Clemson 290 ACC
25 Texas A&M 283 SEC

SUMMARY: How's the depth of each conference?
SEC: 9 teams
Big Ten: 7 teams
Pac-12: 3 teams
ACC: 3 teams
Big 12: 2 teams

The ACC is currently tied with the Pac-12 for third place, but both are well behind the top two - just what you would expect.

Both the ACC and the Pac-12 have 4 teams within easy striking distance of the top 25 - so an extended winning streak could shake things up a bit.

Others Receiving Votes (the next 10):
26 Georgia Tech 269 ACC
27 Colorado 268 Pac-12
28 Arizona State 251 Pac-12
29 Oregon 245 Pac-12
29 Stanford 245 Pac-12
31 Syracuse 240 ACC
32 Pittsburgh 238 ACC
33 TCU 237 Big 12
34 Virginia Tech 234 ACC
35 Missouri 228 SEC

For my analysis (and 38th-108th), click here:
http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2017/08/cfns-all-time-top-25.html

(08-06-2017 11:15 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  I would say TCU shows up fairly well.

(08-06-2017 11:14 AM)Wedge Wrote:  This composite gives equal weight to every season from 1950 through 2016. What if it was done to give more weight to recent seasons and less to seasons in the distant past, which would be a better measure of a team's present-day reputation.

Would be interesting to see what the top 25 would look like if more recent seasons were given more weight, e.g., give every season a little less weight the farther away it is from the present, 2016 gets 100% weight in the composite ranking, 2015 gets 99%, 2014 gets 98%, so on and so forth, and at the end of the list 1950 gets 44% weight.

(08-06-2017 01:03 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 11:14 AM)Wedge Wrote:  This composite gives equal weight to every season from 1950 through 2016. What if it was done to give more weight to recent seasons and less to seasons in the distant past, which would be a better measure of a team's present-day reputation.

Would be interesting to see what the top 25 would look like if more recent seasons were given more weight, e.g., give every season a little less weight the farther away it is from the present, 2016 gets 100% weight in the composite ranking, 2015 gets 99%, 2014 gets 98%, so on and so forth, and at the end of the list 1950 gets 44% weight.

You could make it simpler and give 100% to the current Teens, 90% to the Aughts, 80% to the 90's, 70% to the 80's,60% to the 70's, 50% to the 60's, and so on and so on to the 50's, 40's, 30's and 20's.

Nebraska, Miami, Arkansas, Iowa, and Colorado would seem to take the biggest hit.

(08-06-2017 02:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 01:03 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 11:14 AM)Wedge Wrote:  This composite gives equal weight to every season from 1950 through 2016. What if it was done to give more weight to recent seasons and less to seasons in the distant past, which would be a better measure of a team's present-day reputation.

Would be interesting to see what the top 25 would look like if more recent seasons were given more weight, e.g., give every season a little less weight the farther away it is from the present, 2016 gets 100% weight in the composite ranking, 2015 gets 99%, 2014 gets 98%, so on and so forth, and at the end of the list 1950 gets 44% weight.

You could make it simpler and give 100% to the current Teens, 90% to the Aughts, 80% to the 90's, 70% to the 80's,60% to the 70's, 50% to the 60's, and so on and so on to the 50's, 40's, 30's and 20's.

Nebraska, Miami, Arkansas, Iowa, and Colorado would seem to take the biggest hit.

Without doing the calculations, I think that giving more weight to recent results would change that list in these ways, among others.

- Bama and OU switch places (Bama becomes #1, OU #3).
- Michigan and Notre Dame each drop a couple places.
- Nebraska drops way down, Arkansas and Colorado also drop several places as you noted.
- Florida State moves up at least a few places, maybe up to as high as #6.
- Clemson moves up a few places. All but four of their teams ranked in the final coaches' poll are in the last half of the 1950-2016 period, including #1 last year and finished in the final rankings each of the last 6 years.
- Miami not hurt as much as you'd think, maybe not at all, b/c they benefit a lot from greatly reducing the impact of the years before they hired Schnellenberger. Same for Wisconsin because this re-weighting would de-emphasize the pre-Alvarez years.
- Boise State (at 46 on this list) moves up 15-25 places. They didn't even play I-A/FBS football before 1996.

(08-06-2017 03:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 02:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 01:03 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 11:14 AM)Wedge Wrote:  This composite gives equal weight to every season from 1950 through 2016. What if it was done to give more weight to recent seasons and less to seasons in the distant past, which would be a better measure of a team's present-day reputation.

Would be interesting to see what the top 25 would look like if more recent seasons were given more weight, e.g., give every season a little less weight the farther away it is from the present, 2016 gets 100% weight in the composite ranking, 2015 gets 99%, 2014 gets 98%, so on and so forth, and at the end of the list 1950 gets 44% weight.

You could make it simpler and give 100% to the current Teens, 90% to the Aughts, 80% to the 90's, 70% to the 80's,60% to the 70's, 50% to the 60's, and so on and so on to the 50's, 40's, 30's and 20's.

Nebraska, Miami, Arkansas, Iowa, and Colorado would seem to take the biggest hit.

Without doing the calculations, I think that giving more weight to recent results would change that list in these ways, among others.

- Bama and OU switch places (Bama becomes #1, OU #3).
- Michigan and Notre Dame each drop a couple places.
- Nebraska drops way down, Arkansas and Colorado also drop several places as you noted.
- Florida State moves up at least a few places, maybe up to as high as #6.
- Clemson moves up a few places. All but four of their teams ranked in the final coaches' poll are in the last half of the 1950-2016 period, including #1 last year and finished in the final rankings each of the last 6 years.
- Miami not hurt as much as you'd think, maybe not at all, b/c they benefit a lot from greatly reducing the impact of the years before they hired Schnellenberger. Same for Wisconsin because this re-weighting would de-emphasize the pre-Alvarez years.
- Boise State (at 46 on this list) moves up 15-25 places. They didn't even play I-A/FBS football before 1996.

OU did very well in the BCS era. Alabama had some bad years. OU probably moves further ahead. Here is the top 25 in the BCS era (1998-2013) in the AP Poll:
1 Ohio St. 240
2 Oklahoma 231
3 Texas 213
4 LSU 200
5 USC 195
6 Florida 193
7 Oregon 184
8 Alabama 181
9 Georgia 177
10 FSU 171
11 Virginia Tech 164
12 Michigan 147
13 Miami 142
14 Boise 136
15 Wisconsin 135
16 Auburn 133
17 Kansas St. 109
18 Tennessee 103
19 TCU 103
20 Nebraska 96
21 Penn St. 94
22 Stanford 85
23 South Carolina 81
24 Louisville 80
25 Iowa 79

(08-06-2017 09:24 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 06:09 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If you want to see why some teams have a more valuable brand than others, start with this All-Time Top 25 composed by CFN:

Rank Team Points Conf
1 Oklahoma 927 Big 12
2 Ohio State 916 Big Ten
3 Alabama 895 SEC
4 Michigan 764 Big Ten
5 Nebraska 736 Big Ten
6 USC 715 Pac-12
7 Texas 691 Big 12
8 Penn State 671 Big Ten
9 Notre Dame 654 Ind
10 Florida State 617 ACC
11 Tennessee 551 SEC
12 Miami 504 ACC
13 LSU 499 SEC
14 Georgia 487 SEC
15 Auburn 480 SEC
16 UCLA 475 Pac-12
17 Florida 464 SEC
18 Arkansas 428 SEC
19 Michigan State 426 Big Ten
20 Wisconsin 367 Big Ten
21 Iowa 320 Big Ten
22 Ole Miss 319 SEC
23 Washington 304 Pac-12
24 Clemson 290 ACC
25 Texas A&M 283 SEC

SUMMARY: How's the depth of each conference?
SEC: 9 teams
Big Ten: 7 teams
Pac-12: 3 teams
ACC: 3 teams
Big 12: 2 teams

The ACC is currently tied with the Pac-12 for third place, but both are well behind the top two - just what you would expect.

Both the ACC and the Pac-12 have 4 teams within easy striking distance of the top 25 - so an extended winning streak could shake things up a bit.

Others Receiving Votes (the next 10):
26 Georgia Tech 269 ACC
27 Colorado 268 Pac-12
28 Arizona State 251 Pac-12
29 Oregon 245 Pac-12
29 Stanford 245 Pac-12
31 Syracuse 240 ACC
32 Pittsburgh 238 ACC
33 TCU 237 Big 12
34 Virginia Tech 234 ACC
35 Missouri 228 SEC

For my analysis (and 38th-108th), click here:
http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2017/08/cfns-all-time-top-25.html

Interesting. "Valuable Brands"? Was that the question? Fascinating.

EDIT:I just read the piece. It's not "brands", it is all-time coach's rankings. Not Valuable Brands.

(08-06-2017 05:16 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  A list of "valuable brands" would have to give basketball an almost equal weight with football (since NCAA basketball gets nearly the same revenue as NCAA football).

(08-06-2017 04:04 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 03:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 02:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 01:03 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 11:14 AM)Wedge Wrote:  This composite gives equal weight to every season from 1950 through 2016. What if it was done to give more weight to recent seasons and less to seasons in the distant past, which would be a better measure of a team's present-day reputation.

Would be interesting to see what the top 25 would look like if more recent seasons were given more weight, e.g., give every season a little less weight the farther away it is from the present, 2016 gets 100% weight in the composite ranking, 2015 gets 99%, 2014 gets 98%, so on and so forth, and at the end of the list 1950 gets 44% weight.

You could make it simpler and give 100% to the current Teens, 90% to the Aughts, 80% to the 90's, 70% to the 80's,60% to the 70's, 50% to the 60's, and so on and so on to the 50's, 40's, 30's and 20's.

Nebraska, Miami, Arkansas, Iowa, and Colorado would seem to take the biggest hit.

Without doing the calculations, I think that giving more weight to recent results would change that list in these ways, among others.

- Bama and OU switch places (Bama becomes #1, OU #3).
- Michigan and Notre Dame each drop a couple places.
- Nebraska drops way down, Arkansas and Colorado also drop several places as you noted.
- Florida State moves up at least a few places, maybe up to as high as #6.
- Clemson moves up a few places. All but four of their teams ranked in the final coaches' poll are in the last half of the 1950-2016 period, including #1 last year and finished in the final rankings each of the last 6 years.
- Miami not hurt as much as you'd think, maybe not at all, b/c they benefit a lot from greatly reducing the impact of the years before they hired Schnellenberger. Same for Wisconsin because this re-weighting would de-emphasize the pre-Alvarez years.
- Boise State (at 46 on this list) moves up 15-25 places. They didn't even play I-A/FBS football before 1996.

OU did very well in the BCS era. Alabama had some bad years. OU probably moves further ahead. Here is the top 25 in the BCS era (1998-2013) in the AP Poll:
1 Ohio St. 240
2 Oklahoma 231
3 Texas 213
4 LSU 200
5 USC 195
6 Florida 193
7 Oregon 184
8 Alabama 181
9 Georgia 177
10 FSU 171
11 Virginia Tech 164
12 Michigan 147
13 Miami 142
14 Boise 136
15 Wisconsin 135
16 Auburn 133
17 Kansas St. 109
18 Tennessee 103
19 TCU 103
20 Nebraska 96
21 Penn St. 94
22 Stanford 85
23 South Carolina 81
24 Louisville 80
25 Iowa 79

Look at the last 10 years, since those would have the most weight by far in the "re-weighted" rankings.

Final ranking in coaches' poll, 2007-2016

Bama: NR, 6, 1, 11, 1, 1, 8, 4, 1, 2 = 199 points

OU: 8, 5, NR, 6, 15, 15, 6, NR, 5, 3 = 144 points

We also have to look at what each team would "lose" in a re-weighted 1950-2016 ranking compared to an un-weighted ranking. The 1950s would be drastically de-weighted, and the 1950s are the best-ever decade of OU football -- eight top-10s in the final coaches poll including three #1 finishes -- while the Tide had only four ranked finishes in the entire decade, highest was #9.

(08-09-2017 02:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 04:04 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 03:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 02:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 01:03 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  You could make it simpler and give 100% to the current Teens, 90% to the Aughts, 80% to the 90's, 70% to the 80's,60% to the 70's, 50% to the 60's, and so on and so on to the 50's, 40's, 30's and 20's.

Nebraska, Miami, Arkansas, Iowa, and Colorado would seem to take the biggest hit.

Without doing the calculations, I think that giving more weight to recent results would change that list in these ways, among others.

- Bama and OU switch places (Bama becomes #1, OU #3).
- Michigan and Notre Dame each drop a couple places.
- Nebraska drops way down, Arkansas and Colorado also drop several places as you noted.
- Florida State moves up at least a few places, maybe up to as high as #6.
- Clemson moves up a few places. All but four of their teams ranked in the final coaches' poll are in the last half of the 1950-2016 period, including #1 last year and finished in the final rankings each of the last 6 years.
- Miami not hurt as much as you'd think, maybe not at all, b/c they benefit a lot from greatly reducing the impact of the years before they hired Schnellenberger. Same for Wisconsin because this re-weighting would de-emphasize the pre-Alvarez years.
- Boise State (at 46 on this list) moves up 15-25 places. They didn't even play I-A/FBS football before 1996.

OU did very well in the BCS era. Alabama had some bad years. OU probably moves further ahead. Here is the top 25 in the BCS era (1998-2013) in the AP Poll:
1 Ohio St. 240
2 Oklahoma 231
3 Texas 213
4 LSU 200
5 USC 195
6 Florida 193
7 Oregon 184
8 Alabama 181
9 Georgia 177
10 FSU 171
11 Virginia Tech 164
12 Michigan 147
13 Miami 142
14 Boise 136
15 Wisconsin 135
16 Auburn 133
17 Kansas St. 109
18 Tennessee 103
19 TCU 103
20 Nebraska 96
21 Penn St. 94
22 Stanford 85
23 South Carolina 81
24 Louisville 80
25 Iowa 79

Look at the last 10 years, since those would have the most weight by far in the "re-weighted" rankings.

Final ranking in coaches' poll, 2007-2016

Bama: NR, 6, 1, 11, 1, 1, 8, 4, 1, 2 = 199 points

OU: 8, 5, NR, 6, 15, 15, 6, NR, 5, 3 = 144 points

We also have to look at what each team would "lose" in a re-weighted 1950-2016 ranking compared to an un-weighted ranking. The 1950s would be drastically de-weighted, and the 1950s are the best-ever decade of OU football -- eight top-10s in the final coaches poll including three #1 finishes -- while the Tide had only four ranked finishes in the entire decade, highest was #9.

I have started working on a version of a weighted average:
30s & 40s weight of 1
50s 1.1
60s 1.2
70s 1.3
80s 1.4
90s 1.5
00s 1.6
10s 1.7

Gotten to the 60s so far. When you do the 30s-50s, Army and Navy do very well. Duke is #9. Minnesota is #15. USC/UCLA and Cal are pretty close. TCU was #20 and 2nd among SWC schools. A # of WWII military bases got points, with Iowa pre-flight getting enough in just a few years to be #54, well ahead of Iowa and Iowa St. A number of schools now in FCS, Division III or without football also got points.

40s were dominated by Michigan and Notre Dame.
50s were dominated by Oklahoma.
60s were pretty balanced and even the cumulative started looking a lot like today. Arkansas (tied with Texas for #2 in the decade, behind #1 Alabama) moved up to #18 and 2nd among SWC schools while TCU started dropping. Minnesota was still #15, but Army and Navy had started dropping and Yale was the only school not currently in FBS to get points.

(08-09-2017 06:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-09-2017 02:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 04:04 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 03:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 02:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Without doing the calculations, I think that giving more weight to recent results would change that list in these ways, among others.

- Bama and OU switch places (Bama becomes #1, OU #3).
- Michigan and Notre Dame each drop a couple places.
- Nebraska drops way down, Arkansas and Colorado also drop several places as you noted.
- Florida State moves up at least a few places, maybe up to as high as #6.
- Clemson moves up a few places. All but four of their teams ranked in the final coaches' poll are in the last half of the 1950-2016 period, including #1 last year and finished in the final rankings each of the last 6 years.
- Miami not hurt as much as you'd think, maybe not at all, b/c they benefit a lot from greatly reducing the impact of the years before they hired Schnellenberger. Same for Wisconsin because this re-weighting would de-emphasize the pre-Alvarez years.
- Boise State (at 46 on this list) moves up 15-25 places. They didn't even play I-A/FBS football before 1996.

OU did very well in the BCS era. Alabama had some bad years. OU probably moves further ahead. Here is the top 25 in the BCS era (1998-2013) in the AP Poll:
1 Ohio St. 240
2 Oklahoma 231
3 Texas 213
4 LSU 200
5 USC 195
6 Florida 193
7 Oregon 184
8 Alabama 181
9 Georgia 177
10 FSU 171
11 Virginia Tech 164
12 Michigan 147
13 Miami 142
14 Boise 136
15 Wisconsin 135
16 Auburn 133
17 Kansas St. 109
18 Tennessee 103
19 TCU 103
20 Nebraska 96
21 Penn St. 94
22 Stanford 85
23 South Carolina 81
24 Louisville 80
25 Iowa 79

Look at the last 10 years, since those would have the most weight by far in the "re-weighted" rankings.

Final ranking in coaches' poll, 2007-2016

Bama: NR, 6, 1, 11, 1, 1, 8, 4, 1, 2 = 199 points

OU: 8, 5, NR, 6, 15, 15, 6, NR, 5, 3 = 144 points

We also have to look at what each team would "lose" in a re-weighted 1950-2016 ranking compared to an un-weighted ranking. The 1950s would be drastically de-weighted, and the 1950s are the best-ever decade of OU football -- eight top-10s in the final coaches poll including three #1 finishes -- while the Tide had only four ranked finishes in the entire decade, highest was #9.

I have started working on a version of a weighted average:
30s & 40s weight of 1
50s 1.1
60s 1.2
70s 1.3
80s 1.4
90s 1.5
00s 1.6
10s 1.7

Gotten to the 60s so far. When you do the 30s-50s, Army and Navy do very well. Duke is #9. Minnesota is #15. USC/UCLA and Cal are pretty close. TCU was #20 and 2nd among SWC schools. A # of WWII military bases got points, with Iowa pre-flight getting enough in just a few years to be #54, well ahead of Iowa and Iowa St. A number of schools now in FCS, Division III or without football also got points.

40s were dominated by Michigan and Notre Dame.
50s were dominated by Oklahoma.
60s were pretty balanced and even the cumulative started looking a lot like today. Arkansas (tied with Texas for #2 in the decade, behind #1 Alabama) moved up to #18 and 2nd among SWC schools while TCU started dropping. Minnesota was still #15, but Army and Navy had started dropping and Yale was the only school not currently in FBS to get points.

You might want to Google to see if anyone has done something similar -- IIRC someone has done this decade-by-decade thing, though it might have been with the AP poll.