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Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - Machiavelli - 04-19-2017 08:02 AM
http://www.unitedpolitics.uk/2017/02/24/putins-pawns-how-the-west-is-losing-at-chess/
but Trump's taking us back to 1962! #winning! right
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - Lord Stanley - 04-19-2017 08:06 AM
Considering we just put a bunch of cruise missiles into a close Putin ally I'd say the chess game is closer than this article would posit.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - Machiavelli - 04-19-2017 08:23 AM
Those cruise missiles served their distraction purpose. The airfield was operational the next day. It's so easy to see past this when he's not your guy.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - UTSAMarineVet09 - 04-19-2017 08:26 AM
Putting my tinfoil hat back on... so I can understand this ****.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - Lord Stanley - 04-19-2017 08:27 AM
(04-19-2017 08:23 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: Those cruise missiles served their distraction purpose. The airfield was operational the next day. It's so easy to see past this when he's not your guy.
The point is that the cruise missiles landed without repercussion from Putin.
I agree perhaps they were not militarily as impactful as hoped, but they sure did explode on Putin's back 40.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - TechRocks - 04-19-2017 08:32 AM
Trump could lay waste to every major Russian city and Mach would still be posting similar articles. TDS, there's treatment.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - LeFlâneur - 04-19-2017 08:34 AM
Can anyone confirm that Putin is sacrificing his queens in Chechnya?
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - Owl 69/70/75 - 04-19-2017 08:35 AM
There is only one solution for the Middle East that has any nonzero hope of working.
Western Syria a Shia (Alawite) country under Shia (Alawite) rule. Assad is fine for this.
Eastern Syria and Western Iraq a Sunni country under Sunni rule. Unfortunately, the only candidate currently available is ISIS. We killed the other options.
SE Iraq a Shia country under Shia rule. Call it Mesopotamia and the current Iraqi government could run it.
Northern Iraq becomes Kurdistan under Kurdish rule. Give it enough territory to absorb the return of Kurds from Turkey, solving a problem for Turkey.
Create a Palestinian state in their ancestral home, Sinai. Bribe Egypt to give up the land. I would shoot for everything between 33E and 34E to Palestine, everything from 34E to the Jordan to Israel. In addition to the Egypt bribe, you'd have to spend a bunch on infrastructure to make Palestine livable. But even as is, it's better than what they have now.
Jerusalem becomes an international city under UN administration, in exchange for Arab recognition of Israel's right to exist--the Tom Clancy solution.
Can we get there? Well, nobody wants to go there now. But if we could agree with Russia on this, the two of us could force it to happen.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - bullet - 04-19-2017 08:48 AM
(04-19-2017 08:02 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: http://www.unitedpolitics.uk/2017/02/24/putins-pawns-how-the-west-is-losing-at-chess/
but Trump's taking us back to 1962! #winning! right
Russians haven't held the world chess title since 2006. Putin is losing at the national sport.
Interesting you mention 1962. Bobby Fisher won an overwhelming victory in the qualifying tournament, but the Russians colluded to make it difficult for him in the 8 player candidates tournament (drew quickly with each other but played hard against him) to chose the one challenger. They didn't want an American to face a Russian for the world championship. They wanted two Russians to play.
Bobby Fisher was kind of a chess equivalent of Donald Trump. A bull in a china shop.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - bullet - 04-19-2017 08:52 AM
(04-19-2017 08:35 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: There is only one solution for the Middle East that has any nonzero hope of working.
Western Syria a Shia (Alawite) country under Shia (Alawite) rule. Assad is fine for this.
Eastern Syria and Western Iraq a Sunni country under Sunni rule. Unfortunately, the only candidate currently available is ISIS. We killed the other options.
SE Iraq a Shia country under Shia rule. Call it Mesopotamia and the current Iraqi government could run it.
Northern Iraq becomes Kurdistan under Kurdish rule. Give it enough territory to absorb the return of Kurds from Turkey, solving a problem for Turkey.
Create a Palestinian state in their ancestral home, Sinai. Bribe Egypt to give up the land. I would shoot for everything between 33E and 34E to Palestine, everything from 34E to the Jordan to Israel. In addition to the Egypt bribe, you'd have to spend a bunch on infrastructure to make Palestine livable. But even as is, it's better than what they have now.
Jerusalem becomes an international city under UN administration, in exchange for Arab recognition of Israel's right to exist--the Tom Clancy solution.
Can we get there? Well, nobody wants to go there now. But if we could agree with Russia on this, the two of us could force it to happen.
There are 15-20 million Kurds in Turkey. That's about double the amount in Iraq, Syria and Iran combined. Your Kurdish solution doesn't work.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - Owl 69/70/75 - 04-19-2017 09:31 AM
(04-19-2017 08:52 AM)bullet Wrote:(04-19-2017 08:35 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: There is only one solution for the Middle East that has any nonzero hope of working.
Western Syria a Shia (Alawite) country under Shia (Alawite) rule. Assad is fine for this.
Eastern Syria and Western Iraq a Sunni country under Sunni rule. Unfortunately, the only candidate currently available is ISIS. We killed the other options.
SE Iraq a Shia country under Shia rule. Call it Mesopotamia and the current Iraqi government could run it.
Northern Iraq becomes Kurdistan under Kurdish rule. Give it enough territory to absorb the return of Kurds from Turkey, solving a problem for Turkey.
Create a Palestinian state in their ancestral home, Sinai. Bribe Egypt to give up the land. I would shoot for everything between 33E and 34E to Palestine, everything from 34E to the Jordan to Israel. In addition to the Egypt bribe, you'd have to spend a bunch on infrastructure to make Palestine livable. But even as is, it's better than what they have now.
Jerusalem becomes an international city under UN administration, in exchange for Arab recognition of Israel's right to exist--the Tom Clancy solution.
Can we get there? Well, nobody wants to go there now. But if we could agree with Russia on this, the two of us could force it to happen.
There are 15-20 million Kurds in Turkey. That's about double the amount in Iraq, Syria and Iran combined. Your Kurdish solution doesn't work.
Give them Mosul north, and don't figure they ALL come back, and it works. Hardest part is interim rule when the Kurds might still be a minority if we give them that much land.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - Attackcoog - 04-19-2017 09:54 AM
(04-19-2017 08:23 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: Those cruise missiles served their distraction purpose. The airfield was operational the next day. It's so easy to see past this when he's not your guy.
Obama let Putin get and hold every single objective he wanted. He wouldn't even sell a supposed ally weapons systems to allow them to defend themselves. The article decries how Trump has surrendered the American moral "high ground". Of course, the same publication was was completely silent, in fact it was downright supportive, during the Obama apology tour where he went around the world telling anyone who would listen how horrible America is while enumerating its crimes against humanity. Trump says we are not perfect---and the left comes unhinged. How you cant see that is hysterical.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - I45owl - 04-19-2017 10:59 AM
(04-19-2017 09:31 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:(04-19-2017 08:52 AM)bullet Wrote:(04-19-2017 08:35 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: There is only one solution for the Middle East that has any nonzero hope of working.
Western Syria a Shia (Alawite) country under Shia (Alawite) rule. Assad is fine for this.
Eastern Syria and Western Iraq a Sunni country under Sunni rule. Unfortunately, the only candidate currently available is ISIS. We killed the other options.
SE Iraq a Shia country under Shia rule. Call it Mesopotamia and the current Iraqi government could run it.
Northern Iraq becomes Kurdistan under Kurdish rule. Give it enough territory to absorb the return of Kurds from Turkey, solving a problem for Turkey.
Create a Palestinian state in their ancestral home, Sinai. Bribe Egypt to give up the land. I would shoot for everything between 33E and 34E to Palestine, everything from 34E to the Jordan to Israel. In addition to the Egypt bribe, you'd have to spend a bunch on infrastructure to make Palestine livable. But even as is, it's better than what they have now.
Jerusalem becomes an international city under UN administration, in exchange for Arab recognition of Israel's right to exist--the Tom Clancy solution.
Can we get there? Well, nobody wants to go there now. But if we could agree with Russia on this, the two of us could force it to happen.
There are 15-20 million Kurds in Turkey. That's about double the amount in Iraq, Syria and Iran combined. Your Kurdish solution doesn't work.
Give them Mosul north, and don't figure they ALL come back, and it works. Hardest part is interim rule when the Kurds might still be a minority if we give them that much land.
There are two other problems with a Kurdistan... one is that it is oil rich, and countries don't part with oil producing regions very easily. The second is made worse by the fact that it is completely landlocked, unless you cut a swath through Eastern Turkey (and even then, they would be at the mercy of the Turks). The fact that they produce oil and need a path to export it makes that a bigger problem in a neighborhood where people are not good at playing with others. Those are issues that can be solved, but the drama between Russia and the Ukraine and Russia and Turkey all revolves around pipelines to export fossil fuel.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - Owl 69/70/75 - 04-19-2017 04:26 PM
(04-19-2017 10:59 AM)I45owl Wrote:(04-19-2017 09:31 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:There are two other problems with a Kurdistan... one is that it is oil rich, and countries don't part with oil producing regions very easily. The second is made worse by the fact that it is completely landlocked, unless you cut a swath through Eastern Turkey (and even then, they would be at the mercy of the Turks). The fact that they produce oil and need a path to export it makes that a bigger problem in a neighborhood where people are not good at playing with others. Those are issues that can be solved, but the drama between Russia and the Ukraine and Russia and Turkey all revolves around pipelines to export fossil fuel.(04-19-2017 08:52 AM)bullet Wrote:Give them Mosul north, and don't figure they ALL come back, and it works. Hardest part is interim rule when the Kurds might still be a minority if we give them that much land.(04-19-2017 08:35 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: There is only one solution for the Middle East that has any nonzero hope of working.There are 15-20 million Kurds in Turkey. That's about double the amount in Iraq, Syria and Iran combined. Your Kurdish solution doesn't work.
Western Syria a Shia (Alawite) country under Shia (Alawite) rule. Assad is fine for this.
Eastern Syria and Western Iraq a Sunni country under Sunni rule. Unfortunately, the only candidate currently available is ISIS. We killed the other options.
SE Iraq a Shia country under Shia rule. Call it Mesopotamia and the current Iraqi government could run it.
Northern Iraq becomes Kurdistan under Kurdish rule. Give it enough territory to absorb the return of Kurds from Turkey, solving a problem for Turkey.
Create a Palestinian state in their ancestral home, Sinai. Bribe Egypt to give up the land. I would shoot for everything between 33E and 34E to Palestine, everything from 34E to the Jordan to Israel. In addition to the Egypt bribe, you'd have to spend a bunch on infrastructure to make Palestine livable. But even as is, it's better than what they have now.
Jerusalem becomes an international city under UN administration, in exchange for Arab recognition of Israel's right to exist--the Tom Clancy solution.
Can we get there? Well, nobody wants to go there now. But if we could agree with Russia on this, the two of us could force it to happen.
Those are absolutely problems. As i said, it will take some doing because nobody wants this right now. But it's the only solution that has a chance to work on any kind of long term basis.
The oil issue is interesting. In this scenario, both Kurdistan and Shia Mesopotamia have plenty of oil. Syria doesn't have any oil, but they don't have any now. Who gets screwed out of oil is Sunni Iraq (western Iraq and eastern Syria). But they would just happen to sit astride the optimum route for that pipeline that would connect to Europe and reduce the Iranian threat to close the Straits of Hormuz, so they get something out of the deal too. Maybe, just maybe, the land of, "My brother and I will fight my cousin, my cousin and I will fight the world," can figure out that if everybody is better off, then everybody is better off. The again, maybe not.
On the other side, both Israel and Palestine would pick up oil in the Sinai deal. That would all come at the expense of Egypt. It will take a pretty big bribe to get Egypt onboard. But when your economy is an absolute shambles, your choke price may not be that high.
I'm not saying this will be easy, or that we could just walk in tomorrow and make it happen. But if we are going to try to accomplish anything in the region, might as well shoot for something that just might work.
Biggest issue for me? Who runs Sunni Iraq? I have no clue who that would or could be.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - GrayBeard - 04-19-2017 04:45 PM
(04-19-2017 08:02 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: http://www.unitedpolitics.uk/2017/02/24/putins-pawns-how-the-west-is-losing-at-chess/
but Trump's taking us back to 1962! #winning! right
So this is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't from Mach. During the election cycle, your ilk were trashing Trump for his comments about Putin's leadership. Then you post stuff like this that praises Putin's leadership. I have to ask, does the hypocrisy hurt or do you really not care because you are only as deep as, I'm trashing the person that is not my guy/gal?
Maybe we can back to the days of the imaginary red line that meant nothing, or just allowing Putin to waltz into Crimea. Yes, let's let the scary man continue to increase his power.
At least Trump responded in Syria.
Now if he would just start working on the Personal tax brackets...I would really appreciate that.
RE: Putin's Pawns- How the West is losing at chess. - HeartOfDixie - 04-19-2017 04:47 PM
That is one of the least logically sound articles I've ever read in my entire life.