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+---- Thread: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? (/thread-812792.html)
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - esayem - 03-24-2017 11:31 PM
I don't see why that would be an issue. Get the best program available. It's not like they are trying to maintain cohesiveness with the football conference.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - IWokeUpLikeThis - 03-25-2017 12:27 AM
I like Valpo with Bryce Drew. I don't like Valpo without Bryce and Peters. I think that horrendous venue will catch up to them without a superstar and excellent coaching and other Horizon programs will pass them by.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - NoDak - 03-25-2017 12:50 AM
(03-24-2017 04:19 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:(03-24-2017 03:35 PM)MemTGRS Wrote: I've wondered why I have not noticed anyone mention the MVC targeting Murray State? They have a rich basketball tradition (and a nice arena, I am told), and I bet they'd be tempted to have a rivalry with SIU ... especially if Belmont is brought along as well.
Plus, Murray State plays FCS football. With North Dakota joining the Summit League (great move for all parties in my opinion), the four Dakota schools along with Western Illinois, the Summit could make a play to wrest control of the Football Conference (like the CAA did to the A-10 about 10 years ago) if another football school is not added to the MVC.
When I was in college (dating myself, sigh), the Dakota schools were all Division II. I was always baffled by that with the support they each received (and the nice quality they offered). They have not missed a beat in moving up and I'd love to have any/all of them if I were the MVC.
Murray State had 29 consecutive winning seasons. Their fans travel and OVC tourney attendance is essentially Murray vs. the field. Few know how to hire coaches like Murray - Cronin, Kennedy, Prohm.
The Racers won a tourney game in 2010. Notched another tourney win in 2012 while sporting a top 25 team and hosting College Gameday. Return back to top 25 in 2015 with a lottery pick to boot.
They'll have to correct the latest hire, but it blow my mind the Racers don't gain more traction for the MVC. They should be the runaway #1 pick. Their fans will pack St Louis. They're a 30 year winner. They've reached the top 25. They've won tourney games. They've produced NBA players (Popeye, Payne, etc). They churn out P5 coaches. They have regional rivalries with existing MVC teams. They're right under the MVC's nose and add a state to their footprint.
MVC would be suicidal not to add Murray St.
Murray St fans that travel may play a big part, as Arch Madness has taken a big hit with Creighton gone and likely another big hit when/if the Shockers leave. No other potential fan base has proven their fans travel for tournaments. ARCH Madness will need an invigorated fan base to keep its mystique.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - chargeradio - 03-25-2017 05:30 AM
(03-24-2017 11:31 PM)esayem Wrote: I don't see why that would be an issue. Get the best program available. It's not like they are trying to maintain cohesiveness with the football conference.Since North Dakota has committed to joining the MVFC, it actually does open the door for a 12th MVFC member.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - MissouriStateBears - 03-25-2017 11:47 AM
I think it will be UIC. They offer all the sports that the MVC offers. Public and Chicago with top notch academics. They also actually have an actual basketball arena. Also it puts perfect travel partners which the MVC uses in all sports sans men's basketball with one odd ball only with SIU and Missouri State.
Bradley/Illinois State
Drake/UNI
Evansville/Indiana State
Loyola/UIC
Missouri State/Southern Illinois
If we head off to the Sun Belt, Murray State would be the perfect fit then.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - Stugray2 - 03-25-2017 11:58 AM
There is no need at FCS level for even numbers in Football. FCS schools in odd number conferences have open dates late in the season, which works well with ACC, SEC and Independents who like to schedule FCS games. These are important revenue dates for FCS schools. Since FCS has a playoff, there is no concept of a CCG --those exist mostly for TV revenue at FBS level, since NC playoff has largely devalued them--. For the same reason divisions have no value. The bigger issue is whether the league will schedule an important rival or not. There is no compelling reason to add a 12th. That is why there is no effort to do so.
(I realize some posters partial autism, where they require even numbers or their head explodes will be put forward as an argument. But unless there are competitive and financial reasons to add members, they wont bother with it. Its the REST concept in action ... or inaction, as it were)
The MVFC is not an integral part of the MVC, and the MVC is not dependent upon it, although both the MVC and tSL have influence upon it. The MVC will make the decision for membership that makes the most sense, and it will be a Basketball decision.
You can shake it a hundred different ways, but UIC always comes out top, with Belmont the only real competitor.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - chargeradio - 03-25-2017 01:30 PM
Who would the Horizon league add if they lose UIC? I'm thinking SIU-Edwardsville would get a look, and Western Illinois would probably be willing to leave the Summit League since football can stay in the MVFC. Chicago State would join but their athletic program is not long for this world. The other option would be to exit Illinois entirely, and add a school like Morehead State or Lipscomb.
Murray State and Eastern Illinois would need to find homes for their football programs to be able to move the rest of their sports to the Horizon League.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - MplsBison - 03-25-2017 01:45 PM
(03-25-2017 01:30 PM)chargeradio Wrote: Who would the Horizon league add if they lose UIC? I'm thinking SIU-Edwardsville would get a look, and Western Illinois would probably be willing to leave the Summit League since football can stay in the MVFC. Chicago State would join but their athletic program is not long for this world. The other option would be to exit Illinois entirely, and add a school like Morehead State or Lipscomb.
Don't forget about the IUPU schools. Summit would love to offload those schools, as they're now considerably off on geography. They align perfectly with the Horizon footprint.
(03-25-2017 01:30 PM)chargeradio Wrote: Murray State and Eastern Illinois would need to find homes for their football programs to be able to move the rest of their sports to the Horizon League.
As noted already, the MVFC now has 11 and could look at taking a 12th if the right scenario came along for the MVC/Horizon/Summit.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - MplsBison - 03-25-2017 01:46 PM
(03-24-2017 11:31 PM)esayem Wrote: I don't see why that would be an issue. Get the best program available. It's not like they are trying to maintain cohesiveness with the football conference.
Of course, that's what should happen, which would mean Valpo or UIC, depending on how you define "balance".
But I have a feeling MO St will force UMKC to get picked up, which is bogus. But hey, not the Dakotas' problem.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - MplsBison - 03-25-2017 01:50 PM
(03-25-2017 11:58 AM)Stugray2 Wrote: There is no need at FCS level for even numbers in Football. FCS schools in odd number conferences have open dates late in the season, which works well with ACC, SEC and Independents who like to schedule FCS games. These are important revenue dates for FCS schools. Since FCS has a playoff, there is no concept of a CCG
Fair point. MVFC could be just fine for a while at 11.
But I think it's also fair to say that if they were ok going from 10 to 11, for the right school, that they'd also consider going from 11 to 12, especially if it helps the MVC out.
Summit schools just spent some political capital to get UND in the door. MVC schools would have a right to demand a spot for new member.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - DavidSt - 03-25-2017 05:17 PM
If Missouri State leaves for SBC? Could these teams be looked at? Washburn? Former MVC school. Drury, used to have a sport in D1 as an affiliate. UMKC? Lindenwood, been rumors that they want to be to D1. They could pair up nicely with Southern Illinois as a travel partner.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - bluesox - 03-25-2017 05:29 PM
I could see umkc but not the others. Also, doubt mo state leaves for anything other than cusa
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - NoDak - 03-25-2017 05:29 PM
(03-25-2017 11:58 AM)Stugray2 Wrote: There is no need at FCS level for even numbers in Football. FCS schools in odd number conferences have open dates late in the season, which works well with ACC, SEC and Independents who like to schedule FCS games. These are important revenue dates for FCS schools. Since FCS has a playoff, there is no concept of a CCG --those exist mostly for TV revenue at FBS level, since NC playoff has largely devalued them--. For the same reason divisions have no value. The bigger issue is whether the league will schedule an important rival or not. There is no compelling reason to add a 12th. That is why there is no effort to do so.
(I realize some posters partial autism, where they require even numbers or their head explodes will be put forward as an argument. But unless there are competitive and financial reasons to add members, they wont bother with it. Its the REST concept in action ... or inaction, as it were)
The MVFC is not an integral part of the MVC, and the MVC is not dependent upon it, although both the MVC and tSL have influence upon it. The MVC will make the decision for membership that makes the most sense, and it will be a Basketball decision.
You can shake it a hundred different ways, but UIC always comes out top, with Belmont the only real competitor.
And UIC has no fans and does not have a serious athletic program. Ill-Chi is another San Jose St. Next.
The SEC play FCS schools that are local in November, so the above post was mostly pablum.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - NoDak - 03-25-2017 05:33 PM
(03-25-2017 05:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote: If Missouri State leaves for SBC? Could these teams be looked at? Washburn? Former MVC school. Drury, used to have a sport in D1 as an affiliate. UMKC? Lindenwood, been rumors that they want to be to D1. They could pair up nicely with Southern Illinois as a travel partner.
The MVC will never ever take DII programs. A DII program would need 10+ years plus multiple NCAA appearances first in an entry level DI league. The OVC could if it loses Murray St or Belmont or SIUE to the Horizon if they lose a member.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - johnbragg - 03-25-2017 06:14 PM
(03-25-2017 05:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:(03-25-2017 05:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote: If Missouri State leaves for SBC? Could these teams be looked at? Washburn? Former MVC school. Drury, used to have a sport in D1 as an affiliate. UMKC? Lindenwood, been rumors that they want to be to D1. They could pair up nicely with Southern Illinois as a travel partner.
The MVC will never ever take DII programs. A DII program would need 10+ years plus multiple NCAA appearances first in an entry level DI league. The OVC could if it loses Murray St or Belmont or SIUE to the Horizon if they lose a member.
Never ever is a long time. With Wichita STate out the door, the Valley is a one-bid league. There's still a pecking order there, but saying the VAlley will never end up like the WAC is a bold prediction.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - NoDak - 03-25-2017 06:20 PM
(03-25-2017 06:14 PM)johnbragg Wrote:(03-25-2017 05:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:(03-25-2017 05:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote: If Missouri State leaves for SBC? Could these teams be looked at? Washburn? Former MVC school. Drury, used to have a sport in D1 as an affiliate. UMKC? Lindenwood, been rumors that they want to be to D1. They could pair up nicely with Southern Illinois as a travel partner.
The MVC will never ever take DII programs. A DII program would need 10+ years plus multiple NCAA appearances first in an entry level DI league. The OVC could if it loses Murray St or Belmont or SIUE to the Horizon if they lose a member.
Never ever is a long time. With Wichita STate out the door, the Valley is a one-bid league. There's still a pecking order there, but saying the VAlley will never end up like the WAC is a bold prediction.
Agree. Should have said the foreseeable future.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - MissouriStateBears - 03-25-2017 06:42 PM
(03-25-2017 05:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:(03-25-2017 11:58 AM)Stugray2 Wrote: There is no need at FCS level for even numbers in Football. FCS schools in odd number conferences have open dates late in the season, which works well with ACC, SEC and Independents who like to schedule FCS games. These are important revenue dates for FCS schools. Since FCS has a playoff, there is no concept of a CCG --those exist mostly for TV revenue at FBS level, since NC playoff has largely devalued them--. For the same reason divisions have no value. The bigger issue is whether the league will schedule an important rival or not. There is no compelling reason to add a 12th. That is why there is no effort to do so.
(I realize some posters partial autism, where they require even numbers or their head explodes will be put forward as an argument. But unless there are competitive and financial reasons to add members, they wont bother with it. Its the REST concept in action ... or inaction, as it were)
The MVFC is not an integral part of the MVC, and the MVC is not dependent upon it, although both the MVC and tSL have influence upon it. The MVC will make the decision for membership that makes the most sense, and it will be a Basketball decision.
You can shake it a hundred different ways, but UIC always comes out top, with Belmont the only real competitor.
And UIC has no fans and does not have a serious athletic program.
UIC's attendance was 3,286 per game. Murray State was 3,367. Valpo was 3,443.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - NoDak - 03-25-2017 06:51 PM
(03-25-2017 06:42 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:(03-25-2017 05:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:(03-25-2017 11:58 AM)Stugray2 Wrote: There is no need at FCS level for even numbers in Football. FCS schools in odd number conferences have open dates late in the season, which works well with ACC, SEC and Independents who like to schedule FCS games. These are important revenue dates for FCS schools. Since FCS has a playoff, there is no concept of a CCG --those exist mostly for TV revenue at FBS level, since NC playoff has largely devalued them--. For the same reason divisions have no value. The bigger issue is whether the league will schedule an important rival or not. There is no compelling reason to add a 12th. That is why there is no effort to do so.
(I realize some posters partial autism, where they require even numbers or their head explodes will be put forward as an argument. But unless there are competitive and financial reasons to add members, they wont bother with it. Its the REST concept in action ... or inaction, as it were)
The MVFC is not an integral part of the MVC, and the MVC is not dependent upon it, although both the MVC and tSL have influence upon it. The MVC will make the decision for membership that makes the most sense, and it will be a Basketball decision.
You can shake it a hundred different ways, but UIC always comes out top, with Belmont the only real competitor.
And UIC has no fans and does not have a serious athletic program.
UIC's attendance was 3,286 per game. Murray State was 3,367. Valpo was 3,443.
Sorry, but just imagining UIC "fans" viewing Bulls games on their iphones while at a UIC game.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - IWokeUpLikeThis - 03-25-2017 07:00 PM
I have a hard time buying UIC's reported attendance numbers. Probably a lot of sold seats to corporations.
RE: If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them? - johnbragg - 03-25-2017 07:10 PM
(03-25-2017 07:00 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: I have a hard time buying UIC's reported attendance numbers. Probably a lot of sold seats to corporations.
That may or may not be true, but conferences tend to like big-city public schools with top 200 US News rankings. A lot of potential recruits, potential students and alumni in Chicago for those schools.