(03-19-2017 02:09 PM)memphisike Wrote:  R we watching the old Memphis coach playing against the soon to be new MEMPHIS COACH

(03-19-2017 02:09 PM)memphisike Wrote:  R we watching the old Memphis coach playing against the soon to be new MEMPHIS COACH

(03-19-2017 02:34 PM)Tgrrfan Wrote:  Wait! Are we mad because:

a) He didn't come to Memphis?
b) We didn't try hard enough to get him to come to Memphis?
c) There were people who didn't think he was good enough to come to Memphis?

(03-19-2017 02:42 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 02:34 PM)Tgrrfan Wrote:  Wait! Are we mad because:

a) He didn't come to Memphis?
b) We didn't try hard enough to get him to come to Memphis?
c) There were people who didn't think he was good enough to come to Memphis?

I choose none of the above.

Because I am not 'in the know', the opinion I'm about to offer was gleaned from reading between all the lines.....drum roll....................

Some are mad because GM (or prolly any good coach) was told he would not have the control he deemed to be necessary to make a good program happen in Memphis.
Memphis is different.

Now, whether that control was denied him from the AD, Dr Rudd, bigaxx Booster boys or all of the above... I dunno.

(03-19-2017 01:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 11:46 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 11:12 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 09:45 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-18-2017 10:26 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Are you willing to wait another 4 years for him to get it going?

Again, because they are both similar programs?

The four years before Pearl got to Auburn, the Tigers won 15, 11, 9, and 14 games.

The team Pearl took over returned two players who averaged more than 3 ppg the previous year--from a 14 win team.

Pearl, to his credit, tried to stop the hemorrhaging. He snagged a JUCO All-American (Cinmeon Bowers) and got a former Tiger recruit (KC Ross-Miller) to commit. Also got a grad transfer from Niagra to come there.

The recruits he brought in accounted for about 44% of the team's scoring (including 54% of team's 3pt makes) and almost half (48%) of the teams rebounding.

Of course, for Pearl (or anyone walking into a shi!tshow) that first year is just a bandage on a gash. The one good player left from Barbee graduates and his two grad transfers finish the year and AU loses 67% of its scoring going into the next year.

So, year two he has to start over again. But he now has a full year of recruiting under his belt and brings in a top 15 class. So now there is at least hope beyond what will be a dismal second season.

But, getting back to Tubby, if had shown any of the initiative Pearl did by getting Bowers and Ross-Miller, (or guys like that) Memphis would have been in the NCAA's no problem this year.

Three "top 30" recruiting classes. And 11th place in the SEC. How long does it take? What good does it do to keep getting "top recruits" if you're not winning with them? You slam the 3-star undervalued, team player approach because it takes 3-4 years to build. Keep making excuses for him, and slamming any excuses made for Tubby.

I simply pointed out the starting points for both coaches was completely different. One should take longer.

How long did it take Pastner to get to the postseason? How long before he secured a top notch class? How long before he got Memphis into the NCAA?

Seems inconsistent. You claim it's not that difficult. Grab a couple of these recruits off the internet. BAM! You're in the tourney. Recruiting is the key.

Well, he's recruited well - according to the interwebs. Good enough for not only a NCAA berth, but a first round win. Good enough to be top 4 in the SEC.

He's lost some guys. So? Isn't it his place to keep the roster full and competitive? Doesn't every team lose players?

Auburn is a tougher place than Memphis. Absolutely. But that only applies to getting recruits there. That's not the problem he's having though - right? He's getting the recruits. So, when you have the better players - why is Auburn tougher than Memphis?

You're a self-proclaimed smart guy. You have to see the double standard.

(03-19-2017 03:40 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 01:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 11:46 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 11:12 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 09:45 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Again, because they are both similar programs?

The four years before Pearl got to Auburn, the Tigers won 15, 11, 9, and 14 games.

The team Pearl took over returned two players who averaged more than 3 ppg the previous year--from a 14 win team.

Pearl, to his credit, tried to stop the hemorrhaging. He snagged a JUCO All-American (Cinmeon Bowers) and got a former Tiger recruit (KC Ross-Miller) to commit. Also got a grad transfer from Niagra to come there.

The recruits he brought in accounted for about 44% of the team's scoring (including 54% of team's 3pt makes) and almost half (48%) of the teams rebounding.

Of course, for Pearl (or anyone walking into a shi!tshow) that first year is just a bandage on a gash. The one good player left from Barbee graduates and his two grad transfers finish the year and AU loses 67% of its scoring going into the next year.

So, year two he has to start over again. But he now has a full year of recruiting under his belt and brings in a top 15 class. So now there is at least hope beyond what will be a dismal second season.

But, getting back to Tubby, if had shown any of the initiative Pearl did by getting Bowers and Ross-Miller, (or guys like that) Memphis would have been in the NCAA's no problem this year.

Three "top 30" recruiting classes. And 11th place in the SEC. How long does it take? What good does it do to keep getting "top recruits" if you're not winning with them? You slam the 3-star undervalued, team player approach because it takes 3-4 years to build. Keep making excuses for him, and slamming any excuses made for Tubby.

I simply pointed out the starting points for both coaches was completely different. One should take longer.

How long did it take Pastner to get to the postseason? How long before he secured a top notch class? How long before he got Memphis into the NCAA?

Seems inconsistent. You claim it's not that difficult. Grab a couple of these recruits off the internet. BAM! You're in the tourney. Recruiting is the key.

Well, he's recruited well - according to the interwebs. Good enough for not only a NCAA berth, but a first round win. Good enough to be top 4 in the SEC.

He's lost some guys. So? Isn't it his place to keep the roster full and competitive? Doesn't every team lose players?

Auburn is a tougher place than Memphis. Absolutely. But that only applies to getting recruits there. That's not the problem he's having though - right? He's getting the recruits. So, when you have the better players - why is Auburn tougher than Memphis?

You're a self-proclaimed smart guy. You have to see the double standard.

I'm not self proclaimed. Unlike you, I actually go out on limb and put out real thoughts with numbers behind it that can be checked later. Go look at my predictions about Nick Marshall, Damien, Shaq, Cleregot's ppg as a frosh. Look at my preseason prediction for the Tigers' record this year. Go look at how I predicted the Tiger players stats for this year. Hell, go the the Grindhouse and look at some of my Grizz posts.

I look at things through a neutral eye. Maybe that doesn't make me a "real" fan, but it gives the ability to be smarter, because I'm not tied down to a side.

You hate Pearl. That's cool. IDGAF either way about him now, but I am neutral enough to be able to look at what he came in with and what the status of the program is for him now.

These are undisputed facts:
The two years before Pearl came in, Auburn won a combined 23 games.

He had two returning players on his roster (from team that went back to back nine and 14 wins seasons) who averaged more than 3 ppg when he took over.

He went out immediately that spring and summer and got enough bodies to win more games than in the previous three years. Those quick fix guys contributed about 50% across the board of all important stats.

Bad for him, two of the guys were one-year grad transfers and another of the better players was a senior and that first team lost 67% of its scoring.

So he essentially started over in year two. He brought a good class in for year two but started mostly frosh, another grad transfer, and a judo senior.

They didn't do very well in year two but he landed an even better recruiting class for year 3.

He increased his win total from year 2 to 3 by seven games and his 18 wins were the second most by an Auburn team since the 2002-03 season.

Going into year four, their top three scorers return (all Freshman). They return 70% of its scoring, have a 5* recruit coming in, and also have a transfer coming in who averaged 20ppg.

Tubby came in to a school that had won 31, 22, 18, and 19 the previous four years. He didn't add players over the spring summer like many had hoped and the core that he inherited accounted for 91% of the scoring.

The recruiting class he has in so far is not even top 50 and chances are he is losing his best player, an All-Conference level player.

The tea leaves don't show much of an improvement at all for next year, even though the only two players he lost to graduation this past year accounted for a measly 5% of total points scored.

You can keep coming back and hurling unsourced replies. That's fine. But if you want to engage in a real discussion, try to use some real brain power and provide info as to WHY my assertions are either incorrect or misguided.

Later.

(03-19-2017 03:58 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The KY win affirms yet again that talent usually trumps coaching. See the blocks with 10 and 2 seconds to go for examples.

(03-19-2017 04:07 PM)HobosHeroesStCornerClowns Wrote:  Marshall ain't coming to Memphis and Calipari is walking through those doors in FedExForum again.

(03-19-2017 03:47 PM)hsvtiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 03:40 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 01:21 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 11:46 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-19-2017 11:12 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Three "top 30" recruiting classes. And 11th place in the SEC. How long does it take? What good does it do to keep getting "top recruits" if you're not winning with them? You slam the 3-star undervalued, team player approach because it takes 3-4 years to build. Keep making excuses for him, and slamming any excuses made for Tubby.

I simply pointed out the starting points for both coaches was completely different. One should take longer.

How long did it take Pastner to get to the postseason? How long before he secured a top notch class? How long before he got Memphis into the NCAA?

Seems inconsistent. You claim it's not that difficult. Grab a couple of these recruits off the internet. BAM! You're in the tourney. Recruiting is the key.

Well, he's recruited well - according to the interwebs. Good enough for not only a NCAA berth, but a first round win. Good enough to be top 4 in the SEC.

He's lost some guys. So? Isn't it his place to keep the roster full and competitive? Doesn't every team lose players?

Auburn is a tougher place than Memphis. Absolutely. But that only applies to getting recruits there. That's not the problem he's having though - right? He's getting the recruits. So, when you have the better players - why is Auburn tougher than Memphis?

You're a self-proclaimed smart guy. You have to see the double standard.

I'm not self proclaimed. Unlike you, I actually go out on limb and put out real thoughts with numbers behind it that can be checked later. Go look at my predictions about Nick Marshall, Damien, Shaq, Cleregot's ppg as a frosh. Look at my preseason prediction for the Tigers' record this year. Go look at how I predicted the Tiger players stats for this year. Hell, go the the Grindhouse and look at some of my Grizz posts.

I look at things through a neutral eye. Maybe that doesn't make me a "real" fan, but it gives the ability to be smarter, because I'm not tied down to a side.

You hate Pearl. That's cool. IDGAF either way about him now, but I am neutral enough to be able to look at what he came in with and what the status of the program is for him now.

These are undisputed facts:
The two years before Pearl came in, Auburn won a combined 23 games.

He had two returning players on his roster (from team that went back to back nine and 14 wins seasons) who averaged more than 3 ppg when he took over.

He went out immediately that spring and summer and got enough bodies to win more games than in the previous three years. Those quick fix guys contributed about 50% across the board of all important stats.

Bad for him, two of the guys were one-year grad transfers and another of the better players was a senior and that first team lost 67% of its scoring.

So he essentially started over in year two. He brought a good class in for year two but started mostly frosh, another grad transfer, and a judo senior.

They didn't do very well in year two but he landed an even better recruiting class for year 3.

He increased his win total from year 2 to 3 by seven games and his 18 wins were the second most by an Auburn team since the 2002-03 season.

Going into year four, their top three scorers return (all Freshman). They return 70% of its scoring, have a 5* recruit coming in, and also have a transfer coming in who averaged 20ppg.

Tubby came in to a school that had won 31, 22, 18, and 19 the previous four years. He didn't add players over the spring summer like many had hoped and the core that he inherited accounted for 91% of the scoring.

The recruiting class he has in so far is not even top 50 and chances are he is losing his best player, an All-Conference level player.

The tea leaves don't show much of an improvement at all for next year, even though the only two players he lost to graduation this past year accounted for a measly 5% of total points scored.

You can keep coming back and hurling unsourced replies. That's fine. But if you want to engage in a real discussion, try to use some real brain power and provide info as to WHY my assertions are either incorrect or misguided.

Later.

I concur, Saluki. Tubby needs to get it ramped up. Auburn had NOTHING when Pearl came in. Much bigger rebuild job...(but, I also think Memphis has/had bigger issues than many realize).

(03-19-2017 04:16 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  Oh, and Marshall was/is holding out for a blueblood.