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Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - Printable Version

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RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - levydl - 11-27-2017 11:12 AM

(11-27-2017 09:44 AM)Murph45 Wrote:  Not sure they are acting like they're owed anything, other than an open mind to a deal that is absolutely nothing like the world class abomination of a deal the Bengals got. That is being mentioned in the background of nearly every comment from the likes of Portune and Seelbach and the other pols who seem to continually misrepresent this deal. And to hear Seelbach actual say "rich WHITE men" in his comments about why the city doesn't need to "subsidize another stadium" just makes it all the more galling. I think the owners and Berding are frustrated because they have a club that has been nothing but successful and a real movement in the city and its got this golden opportunity that won't come around again, to take the next step forward. They view it as a deal where they're putting up an unprecedented amount of money towards the actual stadium and they can't get an honest discussion that doesn't involve mischaracterrizing the deal or referencing Mike Brown's historic contractual raping of the country/city. At this point, I wish they'd just say thanks for not listening and go to newport, but I suspect you're right that the deal just isn't as good there and FC "Cincinnati" in Kentucky just doesn't have the same ring to it nor does it serve the city-specific fervor that sees fans marching from bars to nippert in huge numbers.

How has it been mischaracterized and what is the correct characterization?

Also, if they didn't want the stench of the Bengals deal on them, perhaps Jeff Berding shouldn't be their public face.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - CliftonAve - 11-27-2017 11:23 AM

Sounds as if Williams' source on the Oakley Community Coucil was incorrect:

Jeff Hirsh‏ @local12jeff · 5m5 minutes ago


 More
Oakley Community Council opposes soccer stadium infrastructure funding plan as currently drafted. @Local12


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - rath v2.0 - 11-27-2017 11:29 AM

Good Lord.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - JackieTreehorn - 11-27-2017 11:37 AM

(11-27-2017 09:44 AM)Murph45 Wrote:  Not sure they are acting like they're owed anything, other than an open mind to a deal that is absolutely nothing like the world class abomination of a deal the Bengals got. That is being mentioned in the background of nearly every comment from the likes of Portune and Seelbach and the other pols who seem to continually misrepresent this deal. And to hear Seelbach actual say "rich WHITE men" in his comments about why the city doesn't need to "subsidize another stadium" just makes it all the more galling. I think the owners and Berding are frustrated because they have a club that has been nothing but successful and a real movement in the city and its got this golden opportunity that won't come around again, to take the next step forward. They view it as a deal where they're putting up an unprecedented amount of money towards the actual stadium and they can't get an honest discussion that doesn't involve mischaracterrizing the deal or referencing Mike Brown's historic contractual raping of the country/city. At this point, I wish they'd just say thanks for not listening and go to newport, but I suspect you're right that the deal just isn't as good there and FC "Cincinnati" in Kentucky just doesn't have the same ring to it nor does it serve the city-specific fervor that sees fans marching from bars to nippert in huge numbers.

If it's such a great deal, let the Lindners kick the rest in and build the parking garage themselves. They're worth over a billion dollars. What's a few more million to them? The grandkids will just have to do without gold plated toilet seats this Christmas.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatsUC - 11-27-2017 11:43 AM

(11-27-2017 08:37 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Thise tif funds were already committed to projects the City and the community council partnered on.

It's what I said lots of pages back. TIF funds are not magic. They take away from other commitments and those need to be made up.

No way city council votes to approve without the community council on board. That would cause serious waves. Not just bad press but bad for keeping a job in 23 months.

Too bad Lindner wasn’t on Oakley’s council and bailed just before the vote to avoid appearance of conflict of interest.

Oakley might be the “best” location, but like I said when the sites were first announced, Newport is where the money is easiest.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - Bruce Monnin - 11-27-2017 11:54 AM

Watch them not get invited to MLS, making all of this moot.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatsUC - 11-27-2017 02:37 PM

(11-27-2017 11:12 AM)levydl Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 09:44 AM)Murph45 Wrote:  Not sure they are acting like they're owed anything, other than an open mind to a deal that is absolutely nothing like the world class abomination of a deal the Bengals got. That is being mentioned in the background of nearly every comment from the likes of Portune and Seelbach and the other pols who seem to continually misrepresent this deal. And to hear Seelbach actual say "rich WHITE men" in his comments about why the city doesn't need to "subsidize another stadium" just makes it all the more galling. I think the owners and Berding are frustrated because they have a club that has been nothing but successful and a real movement in the city and its got this golden opportunity that won't come around again, to take the next step forward. They view it as a deal where they're putting up an unprecedented amount of money towards the actual stadium and they can't get an honest discussion that doesn't involve mischaracterrizing the deal or referencing Mike Brown's historic contractual raping of the country/city. At this point, I wish they'd just say thanks for not listening and go to newport, but I suspect you're right that the deal just isn't as good there and FC "Cincinnati" in Kentucky just doesn't have the same ring to it nor does it serve the city-specific fervor that sees fans marching from bars to nippert in huge numbers.

How has it been mischaracterized and what is the correct characterization?

Also, if they didn't want the stench of the Bengals deal on them, perhaps Jeff Berding shouldn't be their public face.

Lindner Jr. has made note of his family’s philanthropy. When he did so, he sounded like he was seeking payment for past good deeds.

There’s a high probability that new stadium will be obsolete in 20 years. I’d be very cautious before sinking a ton of public money into this.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - Banter - 11-27-2017 02:47 PM

(11-27-2017 11:54 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  Watch them not get invited to MLS, making all of this moot.

There have been sources that seem convinced that Sacramento has received an invite.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatMan - 11-27-2017 03:11 PM

(11-27-2017 02:47 PM)Banter Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 11:54 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  Watch them not get invited to MLS, making all of this moot.

There have been sources that seem convinced that Sacramento has received an invite.

They're already 8 months into stadium construction in prime real estate with second highest attendance and a hell of an ownership group...that would be a gutshot to end all gutshots if they didn't get a yes vote.

It's pretty clear MLS will pick Nashville and Sacramento this time around...just too many question marks around the Cincinnati bid at this time.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatsUC - 11-27-2017 03:14 PM

(11-27-2017 03:11 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 02:47 PM)Banter Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 11:54 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  Watch them not get invited to MLS, making all of this moot.

There have been sources that seem convinced that Sacramento has received an invite.

They're already 8 months into stadium construction in prime real estate with second highest attendance and a hell of an ownership group...that would be a gutshot to end all gutshots if they didn't get a yes vote.

It's pretty clear MLS will pick Nashville and Sacramento this time around...just too many question marks around the Cincinnati bid at this time.

After two years of MLS possibilities, it seems really sloppy of FCC to be expecting $75M RIGHT NOW without more formal vetting.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - rath v2.0 - 11-27-2017 03:16 PM

Well, afterall they do have a long track record of being a part of the fabric of this city. That should cost taxpayers something.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - RealDeal - 11-27-2017 03:42 PM

(11-27-2017 03:11 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  They're already 8 months into stadium construction in prime real estate with second highest attendance and a hell of an ownership group...that would be a gutshot to end all gutshots if they didn't get a yes vote.

It's pretty clear MLS will pick Nashville and Sacramento this time around...just too many question marks around the Cincinnati bid at this time.
Sacramento is a lock.

Nashville is likely #2 with their stadium deal being finalized.

We'll be in good shape for the next round but it's believed that if Beckham can get things straight in Miami he's guaranteed a team. We would be in trouble if some of these other cities get their bids straightened out.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatMan - 11-27-2017 03:58 PM

(11-27-2017 03:14 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 03:11 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 02:47 PM)Banter Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 11:54 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  Watch them not get invited to MLS, making all of this moot.

There have been sources that seem convinced that Sacramento has received an invite.

They're already 8 months into stadium construction in prime real estate with second highest attendance and a hell of an ownership group...that would be a gutshot to end all gutshots if they didn't get a yes vote.

It's pretty clear MLS will pick Nashville and Sacramento this time around...just too many question marks around the Cincinnati bid at this time.

After two years of MLS possibilities, it seems really sloppy of FCC to be expecting $75M RIGHT NOW without more formal vetting.

Agree completely...but that's a negotiating tactic, definitely not sloppy. Anyone watching this could see from a mile away that they were trying to drum up public support whit flash in the pan style momentum to use against public officials who rely on the public for jobs every 4-6 years and pair that with a limited negotiating frame to add pressure.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatMan - 11-27-2017 04:04 PM

(11-27-2017 09:23 AM)BeerCat Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 09:12 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 09:04 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  What Cranley will try to do is to make assurances to OCC that other funds will be made available for the other commitments and development in the Oakley Station TIF District. Then we are back to tax dollars moving around but for parties other than the Lindners for their stadium. They'll assume people are against taxpayer funding a stadium so much that they won't pay attention to their tax $$ shell game.

This thing is starting to feel like another Mike Brown stadium deal without a pesky public vote to mess with.

And at a fraction of the cost...but yeah, I'm thinking NKY is where it's at at this point, and it's probably better for it. That's a much better site and they seem more than happy to oblige any request of the Lindners while also having a development partner already lined up.

Are they happy? I haven't seen any statements either way from any NKY leaders or politicians. If you have seen quotes I'd love to see them.

FYI:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2017/11/27/fc-cincinnati-welcome-newport/897607001/

And this from the Newport City Manager's Office

Quote:The City of Newport understands and respects the decision by the owners of FC Cincinnati to locate its stadium in Cincinnati. We believe that the Ovation site in Newport would have made a tremendous site for the stadium and we continue to promote the site for a major economic development project. FC’s interest in the site confirmed that the Ovation property has great potential for development. With the reworking of the KY 9 corridor with new investment coming into the west end of the city and with the city’s commitment to bringing jobs, investment, visitors and residents to Newport, the Ovation site remains one of the most desirable pieces of property in the entire Midwest.



RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatsUC - 11-27-2017 04:06 PM

(11-27-2017 03:58 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 03:14 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 03:11 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 02:47 PM)Banter Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 11:54 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  Watch them not get invited to MLS, making all of this moot.

There have been sources that seem convinced that Sacramento has received an invite.

They're already 8 months into stadium construction in prime real estate with second highest attendance and a hell of an ownership group...that would be a gutshot to end all gutshots if they didn't get a yes vote.

It's pretty clear MLS will pick Nashville and Sacramento this time around...just too many question marks around the Cincinnati bid at this time.

After two years of MLS possibilities, it seems really sloppy of FCC to be expecting $75M RIGHT NOW without more formal vetting.

Agree completely...but that's a negotiating tactic, definitely not sloppy. Anyone watching this could see from a mile away that they were trying to drum up public support whit flash in the pan style momentum to use against public officials who rely on the public for jobs every 4-6 years and pair that with a limited negotiating frame to add pressure.

I don’t think a politician would be damaged too much for voting no on this. Plus, Newport is on the table, so it’s not like there’s no soccer if Cincy says no.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatMan - 11-27-2017 04:09 PM

And, Lindner's greasing some serious pockets:

Charlie Hatch‏
@charliehatch_
Quote:FC Cincinnati stadium deal passes through Cincinnati city council.

Vote: 5 yes, 2 no, 1 abstained.

Meeting took 4.5 hours.



RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatMan - 11-27-2017 04:10 PM

(11-27-2017 04:06 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 03:58 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 03:14 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 03:11 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-27-2017 02:47 PM)Banter Wrote:  There have been sources that seem convinced that Sacramento has received an invite.

They're already 8 months into stadium construction in prime real estate with second highest attendance and a hell of an ownership group...that would be a gutshot to end all gutshots if they didn't get a yes vote.

It's pretty clear MLS will pick Nashville and Sacramento this time around...just too many question marks around the Cincinnati bid at this time.

After two years of MLS possibilities, it seems really sloppy of FCC to be expecting $75M RIGHT NOW without more formal vetting.

Agree completely...but that's a negotiating tactic, definitely not sloppy. Anyone watching this could see from a mile away that they were trying to drum up public support whit flash in the pan style momentum to use against public officials who rely on the public for jobs every 4-6 years and pair that with a limited negotiating frame to add pressure.

I don’t think a politician would be damaged too much for voting no on this. Plus, Newport is on the table, so it’s not like there’s no soccer if Cincy says no.

Still in lockstep agreement...I thin they overestimated their support and community good faith for something like this.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatMan - 11-27-2017 04:15 PM

Reading more into this, the vote that just pssed ok'ed the funding model, but not the site. Essentially, Oakley is a placeholder site for the purposes of having one on record for the MLS bid, once (if) accepted, they would start doing due diligence on a site that actually works as long as it stays within city limits.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatsUC - 11-27-2017 04:20 PM

(11-27-2017 04:09 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  And, Lindner's greasing some serious pockets:

Charlie Hatch‏
@charliehatch_
Quote:FC Cincinnati stadium deal passes through Cincinnati city council.

Vote: 5 yes, 2 no, 1 abstained.

Meeting took 4.5 hours.

I wonder what that “investment” cost.


RE: Nippert Defilement - Saw it Tonight - BearcatMan - 11-27-2017 04:57 PM

From The Enquirer:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/27/how-cincinnati-city-council-vote-fc-cincinnati-soccer-stadium-deal-find-out-today/892934001/

Quote:How council members voted Monday and what they said:

Kevin Flynn: YES. "We're not being asked to vote on this entire project. This is all hypothetical at this point. If MLS says sorry Cincinnati ... none of this goes into place."

Amy Murray: YES. "If this deal included $5 million to pay for the stadium, I would vote no. I think this is the right way to head."

David Mann: YES. "This is consistent with the progress our city has made in recent years."

Chris Seelbach: NO. "I just don't think taxpayers should subsidize making wealthy people wealthier, especially when we have other priorities."

P.G. Sittenfeld: NO. "There are big, not small, unanswered questions."

Christopher Smitherman: YES. "To compare this deal to the Paul Brown Stadium deal is not being honest. This is a different transaction."

Yvette Simpson: ABSTAINED. "I'm trying to get to yes."

Charlie Winburn: YES. "We want to be part of a renaissance of a great community."

Typical Yvette Simpson...