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RE: 2016-17 Bowl Records by Conference - Hokie Mark - 12-31-2016 10:52 PM
As of 12/31.
----P5----
Conf W-L
ACC 8-3 (73%)
XII 3-2 (60%)
SEC 5-5 (50%)
Pac 2-3 (40%)
B1G 2-5 (29%)
COMMENTS:
1. The Big Ten bit off more than they could chew, though technically they can still get back to .500 with a sweep on Monday.
2. Congratulations to the SEC for starting out with 4 losses, then fighting its way back to .500 (with 2 bowls and the championship to go)
3. The ACC finishes on top, regardless of the national championship game (technically the Big XII can tie the ACC if Oklahoma wins and Clemson loses, but would that REALLY be a tie?).
4. The Pac-12 didn't look good this bowl season, but maybe USC can save some face by beating Penn State in the Rose Bowl.
RE: 2016-17 Bowl Records by Conference - JRsec - 12-31-2016 11:04 PM
(12-31-2016 10:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: As of 12/31.
----P5----
Conf W-L
ACC 8-3 (73%)
XII 3-2 (60%)
SEC 5-5 (50%)
Pac 2-3 (40%)
B1G 2-5 (29%)
COMMENTS:
1. The Big Ten bit off more than they could chew, though technically they can still get back to .500 with a sweep on Monday.
2. Congratulations to the SEC for starting out with 4 losses, then fighting its way back to .500 (with 2 bowls and the championship to go)
3. The ACC finishes on top, regardless of the national championship game (technically the Big XII can tie the ACC if Oklahoma wins and Clemson loses, but would that REALLY be a tie?).
4. The Pac-12 didn't look good this bowl season, but maybe USC can save some face by beating Penn State in the Rose Bowl.
Now remove the games between teams that had 6-6 & 5-7 records and you'll have a much different view of things. I think the ACC will still be on top, but it really clears out the muck from those showing up for the bowl revenue.
Among the top schools the Big 10 and PAC are really suffering. I think Utah and Arizona State have wins. Washington? No, Washington State? No, USC? Remains to be seen. Michigan? No, Ohio State? No, Nebraska? No, Penn State? Remains to be seen. Wisconsin? Maybe, as they have Western Michigan.
Right now the Big 10 top, which is what was proclaimed and hyped as the best top in college football for a conference, is an 0'fer.
1. ACC
2. SEC or Big 12
4. PAC hanging on
5. Big 10
Before we had more bowls than winners that would have been the order thus far.
RE: 2016-17 Bowl Records by Conference - Hokie Mark - 01-01-2017 07:58 AM
(12-31-2016 11:04 PM)JRsec Wrote: Now remove the games between teams that had 6-6 & 5-7 records and you'll have a much different view of things. I think the ACC will still be on top, but it really clears out the muck from those showing up for the bowl revenue.
I understand what you are saying, and it's a fair point. Thing is, when people used to say the SEC was the best football conference, they were refering to its DEPTH, not just the top teams. No one ever claimed the SEC was best because its teams faced two or three really great teams every year. The claim, IIRC, was that the worst teams in the SEC would be at least middle of the pack in other P5 conferences. That argument addresses these middle and lower tier bowls, IMO.
That said, I think the final bowl results will have the SEC safely in 2nd place after Monday's results. Auburn and Florida just need to take care of business...
RE: 2016-17 Bowl Records by Conference - quo vadis - 01-01-2017 08:13 AM
(01-01-2017 07:58 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(12-31-2016 11:04 PM)JRsec Wrote: Now remove the games between teams that had 6-6 & 5-7 records and you'll have a much different view of things. I think the ACC will still be on top, but it really clears out the muck from those showing up for the bowl revenue.
I understand what you are saying, and it's a fair point. Thing is, when people used to say the SEC was the best football conference, they were refering to its DEPTH, not just the top teams. No one ever claimed the SEC was best because its teams faced two or three really great teams every year. The claim, IIRC, was that the worst teams in the SEC would be at least middle of the pack in other P5 conferences. That argument addresses these middle and lower tier bowls, IMO.
That said, I think the final bowl results will have the SEC safely in 2nd place after Monday's results. Auburn and Florida just need to take care of business...
LOL .. Auburn is a big underdog to Oklahoma and Florida can't score on anyone, both are losing.
The ACC had some nice bowl matchup and some luck. All four of their ACC vs SEC games featured higher-ranked ACC teams vs lower-ranked (via Massey) SEC teams, and the SEC still shoulda won two of them (VT had miracle 1/1000 comeback vs Arkansas). ACC also lucked out when Peppers didn't play for Michigan.
ACC has easily had the best bowl season, no question, but let's let the Massey dust settle before saying they are #1 overall for the year.
RE: 2016-17 Bowl Records by Conference - JRsec - 01-01-2017 05:00 PM
(01-01-2017 07:58 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(12-31-2016 11:04 PM)JRsec Wrote: Now remove the games between teams that had 6-6 & 5-7 records and you'll have a much different view of things. I think the ACC will still be on top, but it really clears out the muck from those showing up for the bowl revenue.
I understand what you are saying, and it's a fair point. Thing is, when people used to say the SEC was the best football conference, they were refering to its DEPTH, not just the top teams. No one ever claimed the SEC was best because its teams faced two or three really great teams every year. The claim, IIRC, was that the worst teams in the SEC would be at least middle of the pack in other P5 conferences. That argument addresses these middle and lower tier bowls, IMO.
That said, I think the final bowl results will have the SEC safely in 2nd place after Monday's results. Auburn and Florida just need to take care of business...
I'm not trying to say that the bottom of the SEC was stronger than anyone else's bottom tier this year as clearly it wasn't stronger than that of the ACC. I've also stated, even before bowl season that the ACC was the deepest conference this year. But what I am saying is that any conferences 6-6 schools or 5-7 schools are so mediocre to poor that it isn't worth figuring them into any equation that is looking at the strength at the top for any conference. They play for the check and that's about it. It's also a very recent phenomenon due to the increased number of low rent bowl games.
Quo raises a valid point in that constantly pointing to the Clemson/S.Carolina, Georgia/Georgia Tech, Kentucky/Louisville, and Florida/Florida State series to count conference coup has been rather spurious. For years the SEC dominated one of those games and the Florida State game was tit for tat. For years the ACC dominated one of those games and UK/UL wasn't a factor. Now that Georgia is undergoing a coach leaving and one beginning, and with S.Carolina post Spurrier things would have returned to normal, except Florida's downward turn has probably hurt the SEC more than any other single factor. When they return to parity with F.S.U. everything will be as it was again.
So really the balance that has been lost has its locus in Gainesville.
RE: 2016-17 Bowl Records by Conference - JRsec - 01-01-2017 05:04 PM
(01-01-2017 08:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(01-01-2017 07:58 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(12-31-2016 11:04 PM)JRsec Wrote: Now remove the games between teams that had 6-6 & 5-7 records and you'll have a much different view of things. I think the ACC will still be on top, but it really clears out the muck from those showing up for the bowl revenue.
I understand what you are saying, and it's a fair point. Thing is, when people used to say the SEC was the best football conference, they were refering to its DEPTH, not just the top teams. No one ever claimed the SEC was best because its teams faced two or three really great teams every year. The claim, IIRC, was that the worst teams in the SEC would be at least middle of the pack in other P5 conferences. That argument addresses these middle and lower tier bowls, IMO.
That said, I think the final bowl results will have the SEC safely in 2nd place after Monday's results. Auburn and Florida just need to take care of business...
LOL .. Auburn is a big underdog to Oklahoma and Florida can't score on anyone, both are losing.
The ACC had some nice bowl matchup and some luck. All four of their ACC vs SEC games featured higher-ranked ACC teams vs lower-ranked (via Massey) SEC teams, and the SEC still shoulda won two of them (VT had miracle 1/1000 comeback vs Arkansas). ACC also lucked out when Peppers didn't play for Michigan.
ACC has easily had the best bowl season, no question, but let's let the Massey dust settle before saying they are #1 overall for the year.
Quo while I agree about Florida (and I still think that game will be close), if Sean White's arm is well enough to return to his normal delivery and Pettway plays, I like our chances. Remember this OU team was soundly beaten by Houston, and in their loss to Ohio State the Buckeyes dominated the game more than the final score reflected. I'm not sure how good or bad the Sooners really are. I am sure how putrid Auburn can be without a healthy White and in Pettway's absences. So if White is not healthy, or Pettway sits it out, or both then we likely lose. Auburn's offense is at it's best in third and 3 or less. That down coupled with our options (when healthy) are danged hard to defend, especially at tempo.
So we'll see which Auburn shows up before I concede that game.
RE: 2016-17 Bowl Records by Conference - BearcatJerry - 01-01-2017 05:14 PM
(12-31-2016 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote: ----G5----
SBC 4-2
USA 4-3
MWC 4-3
AAC 2-5
MAC 0-5
Does anyone still want to try and argue that the American is "the best" g-5 conference and a "'tweener" conference between the Power conferences and everyone else?
RE: 2016-17 Bowl Records by Conference - TrojanCampaign - 01-02-2017 12:37 AM
(01-01-2017 05:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:(12-31-2016 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote: ----G5----
SBC 4-2
USA 4-3
MWC 4-3
AAC 2-5
MAC 0-5
Does anyone still want to try and argue that the American is "the best" g-5 conference and a "'tweener" conference between the Power conferences and everyone else?
To be fair, the AAC had some tough matchups.
RE: 2016-17 Bowl Records by Conference - quo vadis - 01-02-2017 08:59 AM
(01-02-2017 12:37 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:(01-01-2017 05:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:(12-31-2016 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote: ----G5----
SBC 4-2
USA 4-3
MWC 4-3
AAC 2-5
MAC 0-5
Does anyone still want to try and argue that the American is "the best" g-5 conference and a "'tweener" conference between the Power conferences and everyone else?
To be fair, the AAC had some tough matchups.
Actually, we had dream matchups, at least if we were as good as we (and vegas) thought we were. The AAC was favored in all but one of our bowl games.
The table was set for a 6-1 or at worst 5-2 bowl season.
RE: 2016-17 Bowl Records by Conference - quo vadis - 01-02-2017 09:00 AM
(01-01-2017 05:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:(12-31-2016 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote: ----G5----
SBC 4-2
USA 4-3
MWC 4-3
AAC 2-5
MAC 0-5
Does anyone still want to try and argue that the American is "the best" g-5 conference and a "'tweener" conference between the Power conferences and everyone else?
Considering the total season, regular and bowls, the AAC was still the best G5 conference. But the bowls showed that we weren't nearly as much better as we, and many in the media, thought we were. We definitely weren't a "sixth power", nor were we a "tweener".
We were "just" the best *G5* conference.
RE: 2016-17 Bowl Records by Conference - ken d - 01-02-2017 01:10 PM
(01-02-2017 08:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(01-02-2017 12:37 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:(01-01-2017 05:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:(12-31-2016 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote: ----G5----
SBC 4-2
USA 4-3
MWC 4-3
AAC 2-5
MAC 0-5
Does anyone still want to try and argue that the American is "the best" g-5 conference and a "'tweener" conference between the Power conferences and everyone else?
To be fair, the AAC had some tough matchups.
Actually, we had dream matchups, at least if we were as good as we (and vegas) thought we were. The AAC was favored in all but one of our bowl games.
The table was set for a 6-1 or at worst 5-2 bowl season.
Actually, Both Memphis and Navy were underdogs. But your point is well taken. This was a missed opportunity for the AAC, and is especially damaging in light of last year's poor performance (2-6).
Though it's imperfect, for a number of reasons (including pre-bowl coaching changes), the bowl season does expose an uncomfortable truth. Beyond the very top teams - say the top 12 to 15 - the polls don't do a very good job of establishing a clear pecking order for the next group of about 25 teams. The strength difference between #16 and #40 isn't really all that great.
I suspect that some voters use their last five or so picks to be sure to include some G5 schools on their ballot, to recognize teams with few losses, even though they don't, in their heart of hearts, really believe they are one of the 25 strongest teams.