(07-03-2020 07:18 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Can you point to pro-Communist statements from Antifa and BLM? For the former, I don’t think I’ve ever actually read a statement from Antifa. I can’t even name a single person associated with them. And similar for the latter - I know some outspoken celebrities who have spoken for BLM (like Killer Mike), but I don’t remember any of them specifically talking about taking back the means of production or trying to implement true, central planning.
Does Antifa actually advocate for communism?
And you can even find numerous posts of liberal politicians condemning the rioting/violence around recent protests. People who use violence or intimidation to further their political goals should receive no support - those aren’t the means that should be used. The issue with widespread condemnation of either BLM protests devolving into riots or right-wing protests using weapons to intimidate others, is that the content of the protests are often supported by many people.
By the way, I can clearly point to David Duke, as an avowed racist who is established in the Republican Party, or all those Republican Party officials on Texas who recently resigned for racist social media posts. So despite some condemnations, these things keep happening and people like that keep popping up in positions of relevance. So y’all just gotta keep fighting the good fight and kicking out and condemning people like that, and those who would shout “Blood and soil” and “ the Jews will not replace us” at events called “Unite the Right.”

(07-03-2020 07:18 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Can you point to pro-Communist statements from ... BLM?

Quote:And you can even find numerous posts of liberal politicians condemning the rioting/violence around recent protests.

Quote:By the way, I can clearly point to David Duke, as an avowed racist who is established in the Republican Party,

Quote:people like that keep popping up in positions of relevance.

Quote:So y’all just gotta keep fighting the good fight and kicking out and condemning people like that, and those who would shout “Blood and soil” and “ the Jews will not replace us” at events called “Unite the Right.”

(07-03-2020 08:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  And, the disgusting message of reacism on the right is run out of that party as much as possible. As opposed to the inclusion of the grotesque message of socialism as part and parcel of the mainstream national agenda that the Democrats have run the last number of years.

(07-03-2020 06:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 11:58 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 05:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 05:51 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I don’t want some secret-Bernie coming in as a Trojan horse.

It won't be Bernie, because Bernie's not a woman. And whoever it is won't come in as a Trojan horse, that's Biden's job. She'll be the cargo the Trojan horse is carrying.
And you can protest all day that you don't want it, but I'd infer from your other comments that you'd be just fine if it happened.

This seems to be a speciality of yours, OO, and to a lesser extent Hambone. I don't think Tanq has been as bad about this. The other conservative posters (most of whom post less frequently) have not done it to my memory. Sometimes it feels like you and OO and think you know me better than I know myself, which is pretty impressive for two guys who have never met me in person or interacted with me outside of the written word!

If you want to refute my comment, the correct way to do so is to state that you would not be fine with that, and then to post comments elsewhere that are consistent with that statement, not to engage in ad hominem deflection.

I have inferred from your failure to refute or oppose statements by the likes of AOC and Bernie in other threads that, despite your denial here, you are fine with them.

I don't know you better than you know yourself, and make no such claim. As you state, all I know are your written words on here, and they paint a pretty clear picture.

Here's what I don't understand:

KKK makes statement supporting conservative + Conservative calls out KKK = Conservative supports KKK

but

Antifa, BLM, others make pro-communist statements + Leftist excuses or supports Antifa, BLM, others = Leftist does not support communism

Can you explain?

From your posts regarding sports, I think you are a good guy and a Rice supporter. I would like to believe that you have more moderate views than the leftist extremists, whom I view as Alinsky socialist/communist radicals. But you have to supply the data to support that. And this denial, coupled with your failure to call out the Alinsky socialist/communist radicals elsewhere, doesn't get you there.

(07-03-2020 01:22 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 06:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 11:58 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 05:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-02-2020 05:51 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I don’t want some secret-Bernie coming in as a Trojan horse.

It won't be Bernie, because Bernie's not a woman. And whoever it is won't come in as a Trojan horse, that's Biden's job. She'll be the cargo the Trojan horse is carrying.
And you can protest all day that you don't want it, but I'd infer from your other comments that you'd be just fine if it happened.

This seems to be a speciality of yours, OO, and to a lesser extent Hambone. I don't think Tanq has been as bad about this. The other conservative posters (most of whom post less frequently) have not done it to my memory. Sometimes it feels like you and OO and think you know me better than I know myself, which is pretty impressive for two guys who have never met me in person or interacted with me outside of the written word!

If you want to refute my comment, the correct way to do so is to state that you would not be fine with that, and then to post comments elsewhere that are consistent with that statement, not to engage in ad hominem deflection.

I have inferred from your failure to refute or oppose statements by the likes of AOC and Bernie in other threads that, despite your denial here, you are fine with them.

I don't know you better than you know yourself, and make no such claim. As you state, all I know are your written words on here, and they paint a pretty clear picture.

Here's what I don't understand:

KKK makes statement supporting conservative + Conservative calls out KKK = Conservative supports KKK

but

Antifa, BLM, others make pro-communist statements + Leftist excuses or supports Antifa, BLM, others = Leftist does not support communism

Can you explain?

From your posts regarding sports, I think you are a good guy and a Rice supporter. I would like to believe that you have more moderate views than the leftist extremists, whom I view as Alinsky socialist/communist radicals. But you have to supply the data to support that. And this denial, coupled with your failure to call out the Alinsky socialist/communist radicals elsewhere, doesn't get you there.

No thanks. If you call me something I am not, it should be enough that I explain that you are wrong. I don’t feel remotely compelled to provide evidence to refute your made up BS “inferrence”.

Quote:A social media comment with racial undertones made by a Mississippi election commissioner sparked outrage across the state on the same weekend state legislators voted to retire the flag and its Confederate emblem.

"I'm concerned about voter registration in Mississippi," the commissioner wrote. "The blacks are having lots (of) events for voter registration. People in Mississippi have to get involved, too."

(07-03-2020 04:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Mexico closes border

When Trump closed this border, the Dems decried it as racist. Is it still racist when the other side does it?

(07-03-2020 04:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Mexico closes border
When Trump closed this border, the Dems decried it as racist. Is it still racist when the other side does it?

(07-03-2020 04:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Mexico closes border
When Trump closed this border, the Dems decried it as racist. Is it still racist when the other side does it?

(07-04-2020 07:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 04:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Mexico closes border
When Trump closed this border, the Dems decried it as racist. Is it still racist when the other side does it?

I have never quite seen the racist aspect of this. Is it racist when virtually every other country in the world is more strict about borders than we are? Are there no legitimate reasons for wanting to enforce borders as part of national security? Was it racist when the Obama administration put children in cages?

(07-04-2020 07:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 04:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Mexico closes border
When Trump closed this border, the Dems decried it as racist. Is it still racist when the other side does it?

I have never quite seen the racist aspect of this. Is it racist when virtually every other country in the world is more strict about borders than we are? Are there no legitimate reasons for wanting to enforce borders as part of national security? Was it racist when the Obama administration put children in cages?

(07-04-2020 08:17 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I have to say, I have seen zero statues [torn down] by the right, zero arson, zero looting, zero rioting. But maybe if I listened to the NYT, I would see it everywhere, as some do.

(07-04-2020 08:17 AM)ausowl Wrote:  

(07-04-2020 07:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 04:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Mexico closes border
When Trump closed this border, the Dems decried it as racist. Is it still racist when the other side does it?

I have never quite seen the racist aspect of this. Is it racist when virtually every other country in the world is more strict about borders than we are? Are there no legitimate reasons for wanting to enforce borders as part of national security? Was it racist when the Obama administration put children in cages?

Trump's rhetoric from the day he rode his escalator down to his Mt Rushmore rally last night.

Part of his appeal to some I suppose, but he's going to reap the consequences. Alienating persuadable moderates and absolutely driving up the vote. I read somewhere that the black vote will be at 2008 levels.

(07-04-2020 02:24 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(07-04-2020 08:17 AM)ausowl Wrote:  

(07-04-2020 07:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 04:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Mexico closes border
When Trump closed this border, the Dems decried it as racist. Is it still racist when the other side does it?

I have never quite seen the racist aspect of this. Is it racist when virtually every other country in the world is more strict about borders than we are? Are there no legitimate reasons for wanting to enforce borders as part of national security? Was it racist when the Obama administration put children in cages?

Trump's rhetoric from the day he rode his escalator down to his Mt Rushmore rally last night.

Part of his appeal to some I suppose, but he's going to reap the consequences. Alienating persuadable moderates and absolutely driving up the vote. I read somewhere that the black vote will be at 2008 levels.

If the black vote is at 2008 levels I'll eat my hat. Won't happen.

As another matter of pure political science, Trump doesn't need to appeal to the middle, at least in the conventional way, in order to win. His entire strategy is based on making people who dislike both candidates/parties -- so-called "double haters" -- hate his opponent more. This group comprised around 18% of the electorate in 2016 and Trump "won" it (perhaps more accurately, Hillary lost it) 47%-30%. That basically explains the 2016 election result. Wasn't enough to win the popular vote but it won in the EC where it matters.

With that said, some poll showed Biden currently winning this group 60% to 10% (and Trump is behind in basically every battleground state).

Now, I wouldn't put this down to "racist" immigration rhetoric (we're not going to agree on that) so much as to (1) the "the alternative would be worse than me" strategy is obviously much harder to pull off as an incumbent; (2) even harder for an incumbent amidst a pandemic-caused depression that simply makes people want to vote for "change" in any form; (3) open and relentless media hatred of Trump; (4) certainly, Trump shooting himself in the foot on innumerable occasions; and (5) the Biden "campaign" quite obviously and intentionally hiding their candidate away behind locked doors so as not to remind anyone why they might be hesitant to vote for him.

(07-04-2020 02:41 PM)ausowl Wrote:  

(07-04-2020 02:24 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(07-04-2020 08:17 AM)ausowl Wrote:  

(07-04-2020 07:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-03-2020 04:49 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Mexico closes border
When Trump closed this border, the Dems decried it as racist. Is it still racist when the other side does it?

I have never quite seen the racist aspect of this. Is it racist when virtually every other country in the world is more strict about borders than we are? Are there no legitimate reasons for wanting to enforce borders as part of national security? Was it racist when the Obama administration put children in cages?

Trump's rhetoric from the day he rode his escalator down to his Mt Rushmore rally last night.

Part of his appeal to some I suppose, but he's going to reap the consequences. Alienating persuadable moderates and absolutely driving up the vote. I read somewhere that the black vote will be at 2008 levels.

If the black vote is at 2008 levels I'll eat my hat. Won't happen.

As another matter of pure political science, Trump doesn't need to appeal to the middle, at least in the conventional way, in order to win. His entire strategy is based on making people who dislike both candidates/parties -- so-called "double haters" -- hate his opponent more. This group comprised around 18% of the electorate in 2016 and Trump "won" it (perhaps more accurately, Hillary lost it) 47%-30%. That basically explains the 2016 election result. Wasn't enough to win the popular vote but it won in the EC where it matters.

With that said, some poll showed Biden currently winning this group 60% to 10% (and Trump is behind in basically every battleground state).

Now, I wouldn't put this down to "racist" immigration rhetoric (we're not going to agree on that) so much as to (1) the "the alternative would be worse than me" strategy is obviously much harder to pull off as an incumbent; (2) even harder for an incumbent amidst a pandemic-caused depression that simply makes people want to vote for "change" in any form; (3) open and relentless media hatred of Trump; (4) certainly, Trump shooting himself in the foot on innumerable occasions; and (5) the Biden "campaign" quite obviously and intentionally hiding their candidate away behind locked doors so as not to remind anyone why they might be hesitant to vote for him.

2008 level - not 2012. Might get to 2012 if Biden chooses a black running mate.