(05-22-2020 11:02 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 10:30 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 07:57 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  

I saw that clip on the evening news. It is pretty clear that he was joking around about the fact that a negative test is actually a positive thing. It's a fairly well-known joke -- I've heard others make it at various times over the last 30 years, and I've made it myself.

Trump is certainly prone to inexplicable comments, but this one is a nothing.

(05-21-2020 06:44 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  A voter ID could take a little time and trouble to get. It is not time or trouble enough enough to stop anybody who wants it. The same ID can and sometimes must be used for lots of other reasons. I have not heard of anybody unable to register for jobless benefits. Just yesterday I had to show ID (Driver's Lic) to get a medical test done.

My sister does not drive. So she would have to get somebody to drive her. Not a problem. The facility where she lives has people on staff to do just that. I would do that. But if nobody would do that, I am sure she could call the local Democratic Party and they would send somebody. Or the Republican party. Or they would sen a crew to the facility to get them all.

I think of the people in West Texas on remote farms or remote tiny communities. It must be tough, especially if they don't have a drivers licence to start with. Yet somehow these people get into a larger town every so often, to buy groceries, to get haircuts, to see dentists, to do a lot of things. Fifteen more minutes at the DPS doesn't seem too much for somebody who cares about their franchise.

I live in a small town. when I go to vote,, it is "Hi, Phil, Hello Juan, hows it going Joe". They all know me but I have to show ID anyway. I have it.

(05-22-2020 12:24 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-21-2020 06:44 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  A voter ID could take a little time and trouble to get. It is not time or trouble enough enough to stop anybody who wants it. The same ID can and sometimes must be used for lots of other reasons. I have not heard of anybody unable to register for jobless benefits. Just yesterday I had to show ID (Driver's Lic) to get a medical test done.

My sister does not drive. So she would have to get somebody to drive her. Not a problem. The facility where she lives has people on staff to do just that. I would do that. But if nobody would do that, I am sure she could call the local Democratic Party and they would send somebody. Or the Republican party. Or they would sen a crew to the facility to get them all.

I think of the people in West Texas on remote farms or remote tiny communities. It must be tough, especially if they don't have a drivers licence to start with. Yet somehow these people get into a larger town every so often, to buy groceries, to get haircuts, to see dentists, to do a lot of things. Fifteen more minutes at the DPS doesn't seem too much for somebody who cares about their franchise.

I live in a small town. when I go to vote,, it is "Hi, Phil, Hello Juan, hows it going Joe". They all know me but I have to show ID anyway. I have it.

This.
The lack of a valid ID does much more than keep you from voting. It keeps you from opening a bank account, getting a quality job etc etc etc. If the left were really worried about discrimination and ensuring 'the American Dream' to all, they would support IDs for all... and it would only be the 'revolutionary right' who was fighting it. Odd that the right supports it, despite the fact that it could cost them voters from its fringes.... but the left doesn't, despite the fact that it would help its voters.

If as much effort and money was invested in getting people registered to vote as it was in getting everyone IDs, this wouldn't be an issue of time or expense at all.

(05-22-2020 01:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 12:24 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-21-2020 06:44 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  A voter ID could take a little time and trouble to get. It is not time or trouble enough enough to stop anybody who wants it. The same ID can and sometimes must be used for lots of other reasons. I have not heard of anybody unable to register for jobless benefits. Just yesterday I had to show ID (Driver's Lic) to get a medical test done.

My sister does not drive. So she would have to get somebody to drive her. Not a problem. The facility where she lives has people on staff to do just that. I would do that. But if nobody would do that, I am sure she could call the local Democratic Party and they would send somebody. Or the Republican party. Or they would sen a crew to the facility to get them all.

I think of the people in West Texas on remote farms or remote tiny communities. It must be tough, especially if they don't have a drivers licence to start with. Yet somehow these people get into a larger town every so often, to buy groceries, to get haircuts, to see dentists, to do a lot of things. Fifteen more minutes at the DPS doesn't seem too much for somebody who cares about their franchise.

I live in a small town. when I go to vote,, it is "Hi, Phil, Hello Juan, hows it going Joe". They all know me but I have to show ID anyway. I have it.

This.
The lack of a valid ID does much more than keep you from voting. It keeps you from opening a bank account, getting a quality job etc etc etc. If the left were really worried about discrimination and ensuring 'the American Dream' to all, they would support IDs for all... and it would only be the 'revolutionary right' who was fighting it. Odd that the right supports it, despite the fact that it could cost them voters from its fringes.... but the left doesn't, despite the fact that it would help its voters.

If as much effort and money was invested in getting people registered to vote as it was in getting everyone IDs, this wouldn't be an issue of time or expense at all.

The left is against providing all citizens a valid ID?

(05-22-2020 01:57 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 01:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 12:24 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-21-2020 06:44 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  A voter ID could take a little time and trouble to get. It is not time or trouble enough enough to stop anybody who wants it. The same ID can and sometimes must be used for lots of other reasons. I have not heard of anybody unable to register for jobless benefits. Just yesterday I had to show ID (Driver's Lic) to get a medical test done.

My sister does not drive. So she would have to get somebody to drive her. Not a problem. The facility where she lives has people on staff to do just that. I would do that. But if nobody would do that, I am sure she could call the local Democratic Party and they would send somebody. Or the Republican party. Or they would sen a crew to the facility to get them all.

I think of the people in West Texas on remote farms or remote tiny communities. It must be tough, especially if they don't have a drivers licence to start with. Yet somehow these people get into a larger town every so often, to buy groceries, to get haircuts, to see dentists, to do a lot of things. Fifteen more minutes at the DPS doesn't seem too much for somebody who cares about their franchise.

I live in a small town. when I go to vote,, it is "Hi, Phil, Hello Juan, hows it going Joe". They all know me but I have to show ID anyway. I have it.

This.
The lack of a valid ID does much more than keep you from voting. It keeps you from opening a bank account, getting a quality job etc etc etc. If the left were really worried about discrimination and ensuring 'the American Dream' to all, they would support IDs for all... and it would only be the 'revolutionary right' who was fighting it. Odd that the right supports it, despite the fact that it could cost them voters from its fringes.... but the left doesn't, despite the fact that it would help its voters.

If as much effort and money was invested in getting people registered to vote as it was in getting everyone IDs, this wouldn't be an issue of time or expense at all.

The left is against providing all citizens a valid ID?

Putting words in Ham's mouth again, I see. Is this a hobby with you?

The left has made up a crisis based on voter ID = suppression. It doesn't exist.

(05-22-2020 02:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 01:57 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 01:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 12:24 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The lack of a valid ID does much more than keep you from voting. It keeps you from opening a bank account, getting a quality job etc etc etc. If the left were really worried about discrimination and ensuring 'the American Dream' to all, they would support IDs for all... and it would only be the 'revolutionary right' who was fighting it. Odd that the right supports it, despite the fact that it could cost them voters from its fringes.... but the left doesn't, despite the fact that it would help its voters.
If as much effort and money was invested in getting people registered to vote as it was in getting everyone IDs, this wouldn't be an issue of time or expense at all.

The left is against providing all citizens a valid ID?

Putting words in Ham's mouth again, I see. Is this a hobby with you?
The left has made up a crisis based on voter ID = suppression. It doesn't exist.

Uhhhh, see bold.

(05-22-2020 02:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 02:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 01:57 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 01:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 12:24 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The lack of a valid ID does much more than keep you from voting. It keeps you from opening a bank account, getting a quality job etc etc etc. If the left were really worried about discrimination and ensuring 'the American Dream' to all, they would support IDs for all... and it would only be the 'revolutionary right' who was fighting it. Odd that the right supports it, despite the fact that it could cost them voters from its fringes.... but the left doesn't, despite the fact that it would help its voters.
If as much effort and money was invested in getting people registered to vote as it was in getting everyone IDs, this wouldn't be an issue of time or expense at all.

The left is against providing all citizens a valid ID?

Putting words in Ham's mouth again, I see. Is this a hobby with you?
The left has made up a crisis based on voter ID = suppression. It doesn't exist.

Uhhhh, see bold.

So when and where has the left come out in support of getting everyone IDs?

From what I've seen and heard, the left has been all for not requiring ID to vote, not for getting everyone IDs.

(05-22-2020 02:36 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The primary reason they're against voter ID laws is the burden getting an ID can often place on people.

Quote: If that burden is removed and the government provides everyone with an ID, I think they would support that.

(05-22-2020 03:06 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Thought experiment for the day - should it be easier to buy a gun or to vote?

(05-21-2020 06:44 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I live in a small town. when I go to vote,, it is "Hi, Phil, Hello Juan, hows it going Joe". They all know me but I have to show ID anyway. I have it.

(05-22-2020 03:06 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Thought experiment for the day - should it be easier to buy a gun or to vote?

(05-22-2020 04:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 03:06 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Thought experiment for the day - should it be easier to buy a gun or to vote?

Thoughtful answer for the day -- it is far easier to vote. Even in states that require an ID to vote.

I guess you forgot about the background checks that are required for a legal sale from a gun dealer.

I guess you forgot that, for some firearms, there is an even larger bar to purchase them (i.e. Class 3 license weapons) than mere

I guess you forgot that even beyond class 3 weapons, there are firearms that the possession, manufacture, transfer, and sale are wholly prohibited.

I guess you forgot that simple alterations to a whole host of firearms is a Federal felony.

I guess you forgot that in a whole slew of states one must have a certain 'cool down' period between firearm purchases.

The funny thing is that the illegal sale of a firearm shares many characteristics of vote fraud --- the two most common instances are: a) one has to pretend to be someone else; or b) one has to act as a strawman for gain.

So, while the question is cute and pithy, the underlying facts kind of make it inane.

(05-22-2020 02:56 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 02:36 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The primary reason they're against voter ID laws is the burden getting an ID can often place on people.

What burden? The burden of taking 20 minutes out of your year to get something you need for dozens of other reasons anyway? Oh, the horror.

The state places burdens on you to get a fishing license. Now there may be some old geezer on a mountaintop in Tennessee whose car is broke down and his rheumatiz is acting up, and who is busy waiting for squirrel season, so getting a fishing license is too dad gum hard, a terrible "burden", as you say. Sounds like a good reason not to ever require fishing licenses of anybody, anywhere, anytime.

Quote: If that burden is removed and the government provides everyone with an ID, I think they would support that.

So why don't they advocate that? They don't, you know.


The IDs are free to those who cannot afford them. What's next - a mobile unit to prepare them at your house so you don't have to go to the bother of going to the DPS. Somebody to put them in your hand?

(05-22-2020 06:29 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 02:56 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 02:36 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The primary reason they're against voter ID laws is the burden getting an ID can often place on people.

What burden? The burden of taking 20 minutes out of your year to get something you need for dozens of other reasons anyway? Oh, the horror.

The state places burdens on you to get a fishing license. Now there may be some old geezer on a mountaintop in Tennessee whose car is broke down and his rheumatiz is acting up, and who is busy waiting for squirrel season, so getting a fishing license is too dad gum hard, a terrible "burden", as you say. Sounds like a good reason not to ever require fishing licenses of anybody, anywhere, anytime.

Quote: If that burden is removed and the government provides everyone with an ID, I think they would support that.

So why don't they advocate that? They don't, you know.


The IDs are free to those who cannot afford them. What's next - a mobile unit to prepare them at your house so you don't have to go to the bother of going to the DPS. Somebody to put them in your hand?

I am really interested in hearing the "burdens" people have in getting ID. I hope lad will not dodge this.

I am especially interested in hearing how this constitutes suppression of black voters.

(05-22-2020 04:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 03:06 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Thought experiment for the day - should it be easier to buy a gun or to vote?

Thoughtful answer for the day -- it is far easier to vote. Even in states that require an ID to vote.

I guess you forgot about the background checks that are required for a legal sale from a gun dealer.

I guess you forgot that, for some firearms, there is an even larger bar to purchase them (i.e. Class 3 license weapons) than mere

I guess you forgot that even beyond class 3 weapons, there are firearms that the possession, manufacture, transfer, and sale are wholly prohibited.

I guess you forgot that simple alterations to a whole host of firearms is a Federal felony.

I guess you forgot that in a whole slew of states one must have a certain 'cool down' period between firearm purchases.

The funny thing is that the illegal sale of a firearm shares many characteristics of vote fraud --- the two most common instances are: a) one has to pretend to be someone else; or b) one has to act as a strawman for gain.

So, while the question is cute and pithy, the underlying facts kind of make it inane.

(05-22-2020 03:06 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Thought experiment for the day - should it be easier to buy a gun or to vote?

(05-23-2020 02:33 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 04:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-22-2020 03:06 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Thought experiment for the day - should it be easier to buy a gun or to vote?

Thoughtful answer for the day -- it is far easier to vote. Even in states that require an ID to vote.

I guess you forgot about the background checks that are required for a legal sale from a gun dealer.

I guess you forgot that, for some firearms, there is an even larger bar to purchase them (i.e. Class 3 license weapons) than mere

I guess you forgot that even beyond class 3 weapons, there are firearms that the possession, manufacture, transfer, and sale are wholly prohibited.

I guess you forgot that simple alterations to a whole host of firearms is a Federal felony.

I guess you forgot that in a whole slew of states one must have a certain 'cool down' period between firearm purchases.

The funny thing is that the illegal sale of a firearm shares many characteristics of vote fraud --- the two most common instances are: a) one has to pretend to be someone else; or b) one has to act as a strawman for gain.

So, while the question is cute and pithy, the underlying facts kind of make it inane.

I didn’t forget anything son. I don’t get too worked up about guns, for or against. Haven’t ever bought one (technically it was my mom buying them when I was growing up). I wasn’t really trying to be cute or pithy either.