(01-24-2020 01:31 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Tanq - I was young enough that I didn't pay attention to a lot of the deals during the Clinton impeachment. But my understanding is that pretty much all the relevant witnesses were deposed or testified under oath before the impeachment passed the House. So that is a huge difference between the Clinton impeachment and the Trump impeachment. Clinton himself was deposed. I'd happily forgo House and Senate subpoenas on other witnesses if Trump wants to sit down for a deposition instead.

(01-24-2020 01:50 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 01:31 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Tanq - I was young enough that I didn't pay attention to a lot of the deals during the Clinton impeachment. But my understanding is that pretty much all the relevant witnesses were deposed or testified under oath before the impeachment passed the House. So that is a huge difference between the Clinton impeachment and the Trump impeachment. Clinton himself was deposed. I'd happily forgo House and Senate subpoenas on other witnesses if Trump wants to sit down for a deposition instead.

Interestingly I might agree. It might be a positive step to actually investigate an issue and have a cognizable case prior to rubber stamping a pile of goo and forwarding it on to the Senate.

(01-24-2020 01:21 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Do you think the 2nd term Trump impeachment will be more exciting? What will it be for? At least, hopefully it will be better planned.....

(01-24-2020 02:22 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Relying on lawyers here, but in a real trial, are all witnesses that testify in the trial deposed during the grand jury process? Is it common for new witnesses/testimony to be used during the trail?

(01-24-2020 02:45 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The only reason for this 2020 impeachment is to try influence the 2020 election.

There will be a need for another quick impeachment before the midterms in 2022, again for political reasons. It's a dead solid perfectly sure thing if they win the Senate, scaling back to 90% if they don't. The entire Democratic party existence now is based on beating Trump. I don't know if the Dems will let it rest after two failed impeachments They might be willing to let it go because he cannot run again in 2024. Maybe then they will leave the selection of a President in the hands of the voters. But they seem to know nothing else to do.

AOC will be the Dem candidate in 2024. I wonder who the Republicans will run?

(01-24-2020 04:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  It's hard to watch Bloomberg's ads or numerous other Democrats and not believe that their sole purpose (those running the ads) is to beat Trump. That isn't the whole party, but it's certainly a very loud part of it right now.

(01-24-2020 04:11 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 02:22 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Relying on lawyers here, but in a real trial, are all witnesses that testify in the trial deposed during the grand jury process? Is it common for new witnesses/testimony to be used during the trail?

I don't do criminal work. However during a criminal grand jury, my understanding is that the prosecution calls the witnesses it needs to get through the grand jury, not necessarily every witness. They have typically talked to the witnesses and there might be law enforcement interviews with the witnesses. Also, the defendant doesn't put on a defense before the grand jury or call witnesses.

Quote:"Inside the room, Pompeo shouted his displeasure at being questioned about Ukraine," NPR reported. "He used repeated expletives, according to Kelly, and asked, 'Do you think Americans care about Ukraine?'"...

"He used the F word in that sentence, and many others. He asked if I could find Ukraine on a map. I said yes. He called out for his aides to bring him a map of the world with no writing, no countries marked," Kelly said.

"I pointed to Ukraine," she said. "He put the map away. He said, 'People will hear about this,' and then he turned and said he had things to do, and I thanked him again for his time and left."

(01-24-2020 04:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 02:45 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The only reason for this 2020 impeachment is to try influence the 2020 election.

There will be a need for another quick impeachment before the midterms in 2022, again for political reasons. It's a dead solid perfectly sure thing if they win the Senate, scaling back to 90% if they don't. The entire Democratic party existence now is based on beating Trump. I don't know if the Dems will let it rest after two failed impeachments They might be willing to let it go because he cannot run again in 2024. Maybe then they will leave the selection of a President in the hands of the voters. But they seem to know nothing else to do.

AOC will be the Dem candidate in 2024. I wonder who the Republicans will run?

You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with every sentence you wrote. I'm entitled to my opinion and I don't see anything to gain from a back-and-forth about it. As I have said repeatedly, my opinion is that the conservatives on this board have a very poor understanding of how most democrats think, what they want, and how they work. IMHO, you do a lot better job explaining your own opinions that you do explaining what you think democrats want or how democrats think.

(01-24-2020 04:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with every sentence you wrote. I'm entitled to my opinion and I don't see anything to gain from a back-and-forth about it. As I have said repeatedly, my opinion is that the conservatives on this board have a very poor understanding of how most democrats think, what they want, and how they work. IMHO, you do a lot better job explaining your own opinions that you do explaining what you think democrats want or how democrats think.

(01-25-2020 12:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 04:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with every sentence you wrote. I'm entitled to my opinion and I don't see anything to gain from a back-and-forth about it. As I have said repeatedly, my opinion is that the conservatives on this board have a very poor understanding of how most democrats think, what they want, and how they work. IMHO, you do a lot better job explaining your own opinions that you do explaining what you think democrats want or how democrats think.

Well, if that's not how you think, why aren't you calling out Bernie and Liz Warren and AOC when they say the things that they do? I think you are wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

I think most conservatives are not afraid to call out Donald Trump when we disagree. I have certainly not hesitated to express my disagreement with him over the wall and tariffs.

But what I don't understand is this. I have a number of friends that I have always thought of as moderate democrats. Like you, they insist that not all democrats think like the socialist/communist extremes. But they don't call them out. And quite frankly, if one of them ends up being the democrat nominee, I would expect most of them will vote for that nominee. I'm really having a difficult time understanding. So perhaps you could help me out. If you don't think like Bernie or Liz Warren or AOC, where do you differ? And where have you expressed those differences?

I am not going to try to tell you how democrats think, because I freely admit I don't understand it. I see people that I think of as basically intelligent expressing support for positions that I see a nonsensical, and I don't understand.

(01-24-2020 04:44 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 04:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  It's hard to watch Bloomberg's ads or numerous other Democrats and not believe that their sole purpose (those running the ads) is to beat Trump. That isn't the whole party, but it's certainly a very loud part of it right now.

I mean, it is election season and they are running against Trump (as well as each other). But for the most part they are not the ones involved in impeachment decisions. If I had to guess, I would guess that Bernie, Warren, and Klobuchar would rather be in Iowa than dealing with impeachment right now.