(05-30-2019 05:33 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 05:15 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 05:06 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 04:48 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 04:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  First, if you're positive about that equation, please send me a link to that post. I don't remember it, because in my mind, those are two distince groups.

Second, you guys know how a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't a square? This is kind of one of those situations. In this case, rectangles would be members of the alt-right, and squares would be neo-nazis. Not all members of the alt-right are neo-nazis, but neo-nazis are definitely members of the alt-right.

I don't remember saying that all those in the alt-right are neo-nazis (i.e. equating the alt-right to neo-nazis). But I do feel comfortable (obviously) saying that there are definitely some in the alt-right that are neo-nazis.

Finally, unless you can refresh my memory and point me to a post where I equated neo-nazis to those on the alt-right, there's been zero changing of definitions here, even if you'd like to think there is so you can prove a point. Or would you prefer to play this rote dog and pony show where you try to yell at me for using specific language and try to accuse me of dancing?

But back to the main point - neo-nazis are worse than cosplayers. I think that is an OK generalization.

In post 6758, you had this to say:

The point of many of the alt-right groups is to provide a public, acceptable face, for white nationalists.

But, in any case, who is worse, the alt-right or the white nationalists?
\WTH is alt-right, anyway?

Thank you for that search result. I guess not lad is of the opinion that alt-right is dramatically different. Have to love the land of changing definitions.....

Bahahahaahahah.

First, that doesn't say neo-nazi, it says white nationalist...

Second, it doesn't say that the white nationalists are equal to the alt-right!

It specifically says that the MANY (note how it doesn't say all) provide a public, acceptable face for white nationalists. And that's because again, not all people in the alt-right are white nationalists. But views expressed by many alt-right groups do overlap with those of white nationalists, and they have been polished for public consumption. This allows white nationalists to use the alt-right as a public face to gain exposure and not be chased off immediately.

I knew you would parse and excuse yourself around it.

So between you saying you didn't say it and Trump saying NO OOJ, I see little difference. Just people parsing words to make themselves look better..

Isn't BWAHAHAHA supposed to be the evil laugh, what the devil laughs when he gets your signature on the dotted line? Inappropriate here.

I didn't say that. Not me. Anyway, I meant something else. You know I did. BWAHAHAHA is just a subset of HEEHAW. Damn redneck white nationalists. They're worse than mosquitoes. But not as bad as poison ivy.

(05-30-2019 06:55 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 05:33 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 05:15 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 05:06 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 04:48 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  In post 6758, you had this to say:

The point of many of the alt-right groups is to provide a public, acceptable face, for white nationalists.

But, in any case, who is worse, the alt-right or the white nationalists?
\WTH is alt-right, anyway?

Thank you for that search result. I guess not lad is of the opinion that alt-right is dramatically different. Have to love the land of changing definitions.....

Bahahahaahahah.

First, that doesn't say neo-nazi, it says white nationalist...

Second, it doesn't say that the white nationalists are equal to the alt-right!

It specifically says that the MANY (note how it doesn't say all) provide a public, acceptable face for white nationalists. And that's because again, not all people in the alt-right are white nationalists. But views expressed by many alt-right groups do overlap with those of white nationalists, and they have been polished for public consumption. This allows white nationalists to use the alt-right as a public face to gain exposure and not be chased off immediately.

I knew you would parse and excuse yourself around it.

So between you saying you didn't say it and Trump saying NO OOJ, I see little difference. Just people parsing words to make themselves look better..

Isn't BWAHAHAHA supposed to be the evil laugh, what the devil laughs when he gets your signature on the dotted line? Inappropriate here.

I didn't say that. Not me. Anyway, I meant something else. You know I did. BWAHAHAHA is just a subset of HEEHAW. Damn redneck white nationalists. They're worse than mosquitoes. But not as bad as poison ivy.

Ah yes, explaining something is making an excuse..

You’re trying to use a quote of mine that says some alt-right groups act as a public face for white nationalist as an example of where I equated the alt-right to neo-nazis.

First, that quote doesn’t equate two things. Second, neo-nazis and white nationalists aren’t necessarily the same thing. Square and rectangle thing again.

I don’t deny my quote and stand behind it. But you are willfully misinterpreting it.

(05-30-2019 05:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 05:04 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 04:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 04:04 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 12:55 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  If you noticed I said Neo-Nazis, not the alt-right. I figured I would use a group that was unquestionably bad (Neo-Nazis) to try and make the point.

Did you misread my post when you responded?

I did not. My comparison was more of which is worse, a root canal or a bunion removal. And pointed out your absolute and strenuous position that obviously Neo Nazis are far far far worse than the innocence of your beloved Antifa.

You tried to change the comparison to one between an operation for colon cancer without anesthesia or clipping your toenails. So yes, your attempt at Neo-Nazi/cosplayer utterly exaggerates the issue to one that is fing stupid, it was a bad attempt to move the frame.

Calling you out on it that mischaracterization you engaged in with the 'cosplayer' reference, to be blunt. It was rather disingenuous.

My brain literally hurts from what you just did. How did you contort yourself into the argument that you just made? I have no urge to rehash a debate about who is worse - antifa or neo-nazis - yet somehow you've pulled that out of my response. Bravo!

My response was regardless of which two groups you chose to use, because I wasn't trying to rehash that debate. I was simply saying that trying to throw a label/judgement on a group as large as conservative/liberal, especially comparatively, is stupid. And it's stupid because they are large and complex and diverse. But I'm not against the entire idea of labeling or comparing groups, especially as they get for finite.

Maybe this won't twist your panties up as much - Muslim extremists are definitely worse than Girl Scouts.

I have no fing issue that Muslim extremists are worse than Girl Scouts.

To bring that comparison as an equivalent to the comparison of Neo Nazis (or alt-right) to your fing beloved Antifa is so blindingly stupid as to make me wince.

Too fing hard for you to fathom there?

I mean, why not change one side of the equation to the fing tooth fairy? That is the dramatic change you seek to reframe the comment as.

My original comparison was neos or atl-right to Antifa, that you blindingly changed somehow to comparing Nazis and cosplayers. If you dont see the ludicrous thing you just tried to change reframe the original statement to, I dont know what more to say.

NMFP either.

Just keep twisting yourself into a pretzel and not reading what I write.

Let me repeat - I didn't try and reframe anything.

I was simply pointing out I have no problem labeling groups if they are small enough. I then provided two examples of small groups.

(05-30-2019 09:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Funny thing I looked for an article from this d-bag that had the message that made the point that Barack Obama’s smearing of police officers as "RACIST" empowered the asshats responsible for the huge spike in cop killings during his presidency. Double funny thing -- I dont think I will.

(05-30-2019 09:26 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 05:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 05:04 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 04:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 04:04 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I did not. My comparison was more of which is worse, a root canal or a bunion removal. And pointed out your absolute and strenuous position that obviously Neo Nazis are far far far worse than the innocence of your beloved Antifa.

You tried to change the comparison to one between an operation for colon cancer without anesthesia or clipping your toenails. So yes, your attempt at Neo-Nazi/cosplayer utterly exaggerates the issue to one that is fing stupid, it was a bad attempt to move the frame.

Calling you out on it that mischaracterization you engaged in with the 'cosplayer' reference, to be blunt. It was rather disingenuous.

My brain literally hurts from what you just did. How did you contort yourself into the argument that you just made? I have no urge to rehash a debate about who is worse - antifa or neo-nazis - yet somehow you've pulled that out of my response. Bravo!

My response was regardless of which two groups you chose to use, because I wasn't trying to rehash that debate. I was simply saying that trying to throw a label/judgement on a group as large as conservative/liberal, especially comparatively, is stupid. And it's stupid because they are large and complex and diverse. But I'm not against the entire idea of labeling or comparing groups, especially as they get for finite.

Maybe this won't twist your panties up as much - Muslim extremists are definitely worse than Girl Scouts.

I have no fing issue that Muslim extremists are worse than Girl Scouts.

To bring that comparison as an equivalent to the comparison of Neo Nazis (or alt-right) to your fing beloved Antifa is so blindingly stupid as to make me wince.

Too fing hard for you to fathom there?

I mean, why not change one side of the equation to the fing tooth fairy? That is the dramatic change you seek to reframe the comment as.

My original comparison was neos or atl-right to Antifa, that you blindingly changed somehow to comparing Nazis and cosplayers. If you dont see the ludicrous thing you just tried to change reframe the original statement to, I dont know what more to say.

NMFP either.

Just keep twisting yourself into a pretzel and not reading what I write.

Let me repeat - I didn't try and reframe anything.

I was simply pointing out I have no problem labeling groups if they are small enough. I then provided two examples of small groups.

cosplayers = small group of people. got it. that makes *perfect* sense.......

(05-30-2019 09:49 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  . Was just trying to say that labeling groups or comparing them to others isn’t always stupid. Sometimes the group is small enough, or homogenous enough, that it makes sense.

(05-30-2019 09:49 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 09:26 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 05:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 05:04 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 04:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  My brain literally hurts from what you just did. How did you contort yourself into the argument that you just made? I have no urge to rehash a debate about who is worse - antifa or neo-nazis - yet somehow you've pulled that out of my response. Bravo!

My response was regardless of which two groups you chose to use, because I wasn't trying to rehash that debate. I was simply saying that trying to throw a label/judgement on a group as large as conservative/liberal, especially comparatively, is stupid. And it's stupid because they are large and complex and diverse. But I'm not against the entire idea of labeling or comparing groups, especially as they get for finite.

Maybe this won't twist your panties up as much - Muslim extremists are definitely worse than Girl Scouts.

I have no fing issue that Muslim extremists are worse than Girl Scouts.

To bring that comparison as an equivalent to the comparison of Neo Nazis (or alt-right) to your fing beloved Antifa is so blindingly stupid as to make me wince.

Too fing hard for you to fathom there?

I mean, why not change one side of the equation to the fing tooth fairy? That is the dramatic change you seek to reframe the comment as.

My original comparison was neos or atl-right to Antifa, that you blindingly changed somehow to comparing Nazis and cosplayers. If you dont see the ludicrous thing you just tried to change reframe the original statement to, I dont know what more to say.

NMFP either.

Just keep twisting yourself into a pretzel and not reading what I write.

Let me repeat - I didn't try and reframe anything.

I was simply pointing out I have no problem labeling groups if they are small enough. I then provided two examples of small groups.

cosplayers = small group of people. got it. that makes *perfect* sense.......

So now you’re trying to say that the cosplaying community, people who dress up as video game, anime, and other pop culture characters, is not “small enough?”

Dude, go ahead if it makes you feel better. I wasn’t trying to equate cosplayers to antifa, or even the alt-right to neo-nazis. Was just trying to say that labeling groups or comparing them to others isn’t always stupid. Sometimes the group is small enough, or homogenous enough, that it makes sense.

Why not try and address that idea instead of nitpicking things that really aren’t germane?

(05-30-2019 09:45 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 09:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Funny thing I looked for an article from this d-bag that had the message that made the point that Barack Obama’s smearing of police officers as "RACIST" empowered the asshats responsible for the huge spike in cop killings during his presidency. Double funny thing -- I dont think I will.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/09/police-are-safer-under-obama-than-they-have-been-in-decades/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5ce7a228596a

(05-31-2019 07:41 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Im stunned, this *isnt* satire:

Guess who is going to be a keynote speaker at a Cyber Security conference

This is on par with Trump being named a keynote speaker at a 'How to win friends and influence people' gathering......

(05-31-2019 05:12 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  So, maybe just perhaps in your state of mind 'cosplayers' are your bright shining example of a small homogeneous group (that in the 'evil' sense stands as far apart from the group you swapped them out for as you can get), maybe, just perhaps maybe, in other locales they arent that small and uncommon.

(05-31-2019 09:21 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 07:41 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Im stunned, this *isnt* satire:

Guess who is going to be a keynote speaker at a Cyber Security conference

This is on par with Trump being named a keynote speaker at a 'How to win friends and influence people' gathering......

I wonder if that panel will take questions from the crowd... lol

(05-31-2019 05:22 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 09:45 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 09:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Funny thing I looked for an article from this d-bag that had the message that made the point that Barack Obama’s smearing of police officers as "RACIST" empowered the asshats responsible for the huge spike in cop killings during his presidency. Double funny thing -- I dont think I will.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/09/police-are-safer-under-obama-than-they-have-been-in-decades/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5ce7a228596a

Glad to know the number of racially motivated assaults on cops plummeted during that time. Oops, that didnt happen, did it?

Quote:Or are you trying to make the assertion that while the overall rate stayed the same (as the article notes) that there was zero impact on racially motivated cop killings and ambushes (which was the actual intent of my original comment, albeit not necessarily originally stated).

(05-31-2019 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I wonder how the Loyal Opposition feels about the investigations into the origin of the Russia probe? Worried at all?

Quote:I think when all the facts are in, we will find that there really was an attempt to steal an election, and later, to remove a legally elected President.

The conspirators are the DNC, the Clinton Campaign, Fusion GPS, and a group within the FBI. I think the MSM are just willing dupes, as are the low level footsoldiers of the Democratic party.

The evidence is on the table in plain sight.

In a not unrelated matter, does Cimey's decision on Clinton stand, or could the current DOJ review the case he presented and decide to bring charges?

(05-31-2019 11:34 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I wonder how the Loyal Opposition feels about the investigations into the origin of the Russia probe? Worried at all?

Worried? Why would people be worried? If it shows there was no issues, great! If it shows there were abuses and the people responsible are held accountable, great!

That's the same way the Loyal Faithful should have felt about the Russia investigation - if Trump campaign members broke the law and were held accountable, great! If they didn't, great!

Quote:

Quote:I think when all the facts are in, we will find that there really was an attempt to steal an election, and later, to remove a legally elected President.

The conspirators are the DNC, the Clinton Campaign, Fusion GPS, and a group within the FBI. I think the MSM are just willing dupes, as are the low level footsoldiers of the Democratic party.

The evidence is on the table in plain sight.

In a not unrelated matter, does Cimey's decision on Clinton stand, or could the current DOJ review the case he presented and decide to bring charges?

I think you need to put a bit more tinfoil on your hat...

(05-31-2019 01:08 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 11:34 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I wonder how the Loyal Opposition feels about the investigations into the origin of the Russia probe? Worried at all?

Worried? Why would people be worried? If it shows there was no issues, great! If it shows there were abuses and the people responsible are held accountable, great!

That's the same way the Loyal Faithful should have felt about the Russia investigation - if Trump campaign members broke the law and were held accountable, great! If they didn't, great!

That;s a good public position. But it ends up with the entire Democratic apparatus discredited, I am sure many people above your level, and many at it, will not be happy.

I am sure you can contain the damage to a few midlevel flunkies, though.

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:I think when all the facts are in, we will find that there really was an attempt to steal an election, and later, to remove a legally elected President.

The conspirators are the DNC, the Clinton Campaign, Fusion GPS, and a group within the FBI. I think the MSM are just willing dupes, as are the low level footsoldiers of the Democratic party.

The evidence is on the table in plain sight.

In a not unrelated matter, does Cimey's decision on Clinton stand, or could the current DOJ review the case he presented and decide to bring charges?

I think you need to put a bit more tinfoil on your hat...

Typical leftist dismissal and demeaning of the right. hard to talk to deplorables without talking down to them,though.

Comey laid out a case against Clinton. Has that case been dismissed? Or can the DOJ move on it?

It may not be good politics to do so, but I was asking a legal question, not a political one.

(05-31-2019 01:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 01:08 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 11:34 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-31-2019 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I wonder how the Loyal Opposition feels about the investigations into the origin of the Russia probe? Worried at all?

Worried? Why would people be worried? If it shows there was no issues, great! If it shows there were abuses and the people responsible are held accountable, great!

That's the same way the Loyal Faithful should have felt about the Russia investigation - if Trump campaign members broke the law and were held accountable, great! If they didn't, great!

That;s a good public position. But it ends up with the entire Democratic apparatus discredited, I am sure many people above your level, and many at it, will not be happy.

I am sure you can contain the damage to a few midlevel flunkies, though.

I can contain the damage? Last time I checked I was just an engineer that wasn't active in any political party. I hardly doubt I'll get called in for damage control...

Weird response.

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:I think when all the facts are in, we will find that there really was an attempt to steal an election, and later, to remove a legally elected President.

The conspirators are the DNC, the Clinton Campaign, Fusion GPS, and a group within the FBI. I think the MSM are just willing dupes, as are the low level footsoldiers of the Democratic party.

The evidence is on the table in plain sight.

In a not unrelated matter, does Cimey's decision on Clinton stand, or could the current DOJ review the case he presented and decide to bring charges?

I think you need to put a bit more tinfoil on your hat...

Typical leftist dismissal and demeaning of the right. hard to talk to deplorables without talking down to them,though.

Comey laid out a case against Clinton. Has that case been dismissed? Or can the DOJ move on it?

It may not be good politics to do so, but I was asking a legal question, not a political one.

OO, you're getting really good at this persecuted conservative angle. Typical leftist dismissal and demeaning of the right - I'm going to remember that one every time you dismiss one of my theories. I mean, it's pretty impressive that you're now speaking for the entire "right" since I was really just dismissing your theory about how things will play out.

And now you're a deplorable? I thought you and others on the right hated that term and didn't think it was applicable?

Sure seems like the snowflake in this situation isn't this liberal, but the conservative that doesn't like it when someone thinks their theory about the referenced investigation is a bit over the top.