(03-01-2017 03:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 03:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I agree to an extent, but that wasn't the point of my post.
The point of my post was that the Commander in Chief was not taking responsibility for his decision to green light the operation.
I too agree that those trying to point to the death of a SEAL as a sign that the raid was botched must misunderstand that a casualty doesn't always equate to success/failure. However, as more information comes out about the raid (last I read, no useful intelligence was gathered from the raid) it sounds like it was botched in the sense that there was no net positive from the raid.
Again, that wasn't what I wanted to highlight - I wanted to highlight the rather dishonorable nature of the Commander in Chief's suggestions that the buck apparently stops with someone else.

I admit that I haven't followed this one closely, because it has struck me as an effort to make a tempest in a teapot by those who want to do anything to discredit Trump, but I really haven't seen that, including in the video linked to the earlier post. Perhaps you could point out clearly and explicitly what you are talking about.

(03-01-2017 03:53 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 03:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 03:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I agree to an extent, but that wasn't the point of my post.
The point of my post was that the Commander in Chief was not taking responsibility for his decision to green light the operation.
I too agree that those trying to point to the death of a SEAL as a sign that the raid was botched must misunderstand that a casualty doesn't always equate to success/failure. However, as more information comes out about the raid (last I read, no useful intelligence was gathered from the raid) it sounds like it was botched in the sense that there was no net positive from the raid.
Again, that wasn't what I wanted to highlight - I wanted to highlight the rather dishonorable nature of the Commander in Chief's suggestions that the buck apparently stops with someone else.

I admit that I haven't followed this one closely, because it has struck me as an effort to make a tempest in a teapot by those who want to do anything to discredit Trump, but I really haven't seen that, including in the video linked to the earlier post. Perhaps you could point out clearly and explicitly what you are talking about.

Read my original post -I bolded Trump's quote so it would be hard to miss.

(03-01-2017 03:54 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 03:53 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 03:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 03:43 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I agree to an extent, but that wasn't the point of my post.
The point of my post was that the Commander in Chief was not taking responsibility for his decision to green light the operation.
I too agree that those trying to point to the death of a SEAL as a sign that the raid was botched must misunderstand that a casualty doesn't always equate to success/failure. However, as more information comes out about the raid (last I read, no useful intelligence was gathered from the raid) it sounds like it was botched in the sense that there was no net positive from the raid.
Again, that wasn't what I wanted to highlight - I wanted to highlight the rather dishonorable nature of the Commander in Chief's suggestions that the buck apparently stops with someone else.

I admit that I haven't followed this one closely, because it has struck me as an effort to make a tempest in a teapot by those who want to do anything to discredit Trump, but I really haven't seen that, including in the video linked to the earlier post. Perhaps you could point out clearly and explicitly what you are talking about.

Read my original post -I bolded Trump's quote so it would be hard to miss.

I didn't miss it. I don't interpret it the way that you do. As far as I know, everything said by Trump there is factual. Is there some part that is not?

Quote:“This was a mission that was started before I got here. This was something they wanted to do,” he said. “They came to me, they explained what they wanted to do ― the generals ― who are very respected, my generals are the most respected that we’ve had in many decades, I believe. And they lost Ryan.

(03-01-2017 04:14 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  Owl #s, I know you're a fan of Bear Bryant: “If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good, then you did it." Nothing the president said was incorrect, but it would have gone over better if he'd used the word "we" instead of saying "they lost Ryan."

(03-01-2017 04:55 PM)Barrett Wrote:  I think Trump is like former Boston Celtic and Phoenix Sun Danny Ainge. If he's on your team, you like him, and all his elbows and shenanigans are just "grit" and "toughness." If he's on the other team, you hate him because he's a "whiner" and plays a bit "dirty." If you like Trump, you can look past a lot of his character traits; you may even find virtue in them. If you hate Trump, then you find his traits terrible.*

I do believe that, if Obama had been president during this raid and said the same exact words as Trump, many people who are giving Trump a pass on these comments would be raking Obama over the coals. Do I think Trump's comments were the worst thing in the world? No. Do I think they're kind of sh-tty for a president? Kind of.

*I always really disliked Danny Ainge. I never thought he was bad for the country and the world, however.

(03-01-2017 04:11 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  You don't interpret this:

Quote:“This was a mission that was started before I got here. This was something they wanted to do,” he said. “They came to me, they explained what they wanted to do ― the generals ― who are very respected, my generals are the most respected that we’ve had in many decades, I believe. And they lost Ryan.

As Trump indicating that the responsibility for the raid was basically falling on other's shoulders'? How else am I supposed to interpret the comment "And they lost Ryan."
Using the word "they" certainly appears to me that Trump is not saying HIS raid lost Ryan.
I am not trying to say that Trump is lying as you suggest. I don't think he is making up some funny narrative that isn't truthful. I think he is being a shi**y leader who is unwilling to admit that he has the final authority over these military operations and HE, not THEY, lost the SEAL.
And as I said in my original post, the loss of life is not the issue, it is the unwillingness to take responsibility for it that is.
Please explain how my interpretation of that quote is incorrect.

(03-01-2017 06:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 04:11 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  You don't interpret this:

Quote:“This was a mission that was started before I got here. This was something they wanted to do,” he said. “They came to me, they explained what they wanted to do ― the generals ― who are very respected, my generals are the most respected that we’ve had in many decades, I believe. And they lost Ryan.

As Trump indicating that the responsibility for the raid was basically falling on other's shoulders'? How else am I supposed to interpret the comment "And they lost Ryan."
Using the word "they" certainly appears to me that Trump is not saying HIS raid lost Ryan.
I am not trying to say that Trump is lying as you suggest. I don't think he is making up some funny narrative that isn't truthful. I think he is being a shi**y leader who is unwilling to admit that he has the final authority over these military operations and HE, not THEY, lost the SEAL.
And as I said in my original post, the loss of life is not the issue, it is the unwillingness to take responsibility for it that is.
Please explain how my interpretation of that quote is incorrect.

No, I didn't.

I probably have more trouble with the, "This was something they wanted to do," part than with the, "They lost Ryan," part, although the amplification of the former in the sentence that follows it pretty much deals with my issues there.

If the mission uncovered a treasure trove of intel, I'd still play it as not having found a whole lot. That was one problem I had with Obama's handling of the bin Laden raid was all the spiking the football about how much intel they recovered. You don't want the enemy to know that.

I try to think would I have a problem if I were a member of the SEAL team or one of the generals, and I don't really see where I would.

(03-01-2017 06:10 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So let me get this straight - Trump saying multiple times that others were why the raid happened and that those others are the ones who were responsible for the SEAL's is not Trump trying to pin the blame on those others?
That's what I am saying he is trying to do. You're trying to refute that?

(03-01-2017 06:33 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 06:10 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So let me get this straight - Trump saying multiple times that others were why the raid happened and that those others are the ones who were responsible for the SEAL's is not Trump trying to pin the blame on those others?
That's what I am saying he is trying to do. You're trying to refute that?

No, you don't have it straight because that's not what he said. You are adding a bunch of words that he didn't say. I suppose that you are free to interpret it that way, but I think that's taking a very prejudiced view.

Just for information, what was the context of Trump's remarks?

(03-01-2017 07:04 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 06:33 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 06:10 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So let me get this straight - Trump saying multiple times that others were why the raid happened and that those others are the ones who were responsible for the SEAL's is not Trump trying to pin the blame on those others?
That's what I am saying he is trying to do. You're trying to refute that?

No, you don't have it straight because that's not what he said. You are adding a bunch of words that he didn't say. I suppose that you are free to interpret it that way, but I think that's taking a very prejudiced view.
Just for information, what was the context of Trump's remarks?

What words am I adding?

(03-01-2017 05:40 PM)JSA Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 04:55 PM)Barrett Wrote:  I think Trump is like former Boston Celtic and Phoenix Sun Danny Ainge. If he's on your team, you like him, and all his elbows and shenanigans are just "grit" and "toughness." If he's on the other team, you hate him because he's a "whiner" and plays a bit "dirty." If you like Trump, you can look past a lot of his character traits; you may even find virtue in them. If you hate Trump, then you find his traits terrible.*

I do believe that, if Obama had been president during this raid and said the same exact words as Trump, many people who are giving Trump a pass on these comments would be raking Obama over the coals. Do I think Trump's comments were the worst thing in the world? No. Do I think they're kind of sh-tty for a president? Kind of.

*I always really disliked Danny Ainge. I never thought he was bad for the country and the world, however.

Maybe it will be a Nixon to China kind of thing.
It seems that in the past whenever infrastructure projects were proposed by Democrats, they were derided as make-work boondoggles.

(03-01-2017 09:22 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  We must be talking righty pay each other. I have no idea what you're responding to.

(03-01-2017 10:10 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I don't know whether to laugh or be mortified ----

use this chrome extension and peruse through Salon or Huffpo.....

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/racism-simulator/dmjhkebiknajjcgfjcfaefladmonilah

(03-01-2017 10:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 09:22 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  We must be talking righty pay each other. I have no idea what you're responding to.

Umm, I'm quoting your words.

(03-01-2017 04:55 PM)Barrett Wrote:  I think Trump is like former Boston Celtic and Phoenix Sun Danny Ainge. If he's on your team, you like him, and all his elbows and shenanigans are just "grit" and "toughness." If he's on the other team, you hate him because he's a "whiner" and plays a bit "dirty." If you like Trump, you can look past a lot of his character traits; you may even find virtue in them. If you hate Trump, then you find his traits terrible.*

I do believe that, if Obama had been president during this raid and said the same exact words as Trump, many people who are giving Trump a pass on these comments would be raking Obama over the coals. Do I think Trump's comments were the worst thing in the world? No. Do I think they're kind of sh-tty for a president? Kind of.

*I always really disliked Danny Ainge. I never thought he was bad for the country and the world, however.