(03-25-2018 07:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Given that there is such a concerted character assassination attempt aimed at destroying Trump, is it inevitable that they will get him at some point? Does he have any chance of beating all of them?

(03-25-2018 07:46 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:30 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:22 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:04 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 11:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Why are Trump’s affairs important? That is what the all Trump, all the time networks are covering now.

So, nobody wanted to tackle this?

They aren't, and it's a bit annoying how much air time they are getting. But people love gossip, so I guess that's the world we have to live in.

The Stormy Daniel's story does have merit, though, because of the NDA and subsequent issues with the hush money she was paid. My understanding is, depending on how and when the hush money was paid by Michael Cohen (if it actually was paid by him), he could be disbarred.

So this is really a Michael Cohen disbarment story? Seems like small potatoes to be on CNN et al all the time.

In any case, marital fidelity seems to be unrelated to job performance. Some of our best presidents were notoriusly unfaithful (FDR, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Clinton) and some of the worst upright family men(Nixon, Carter, Obama).

At the moment, it's a bunch of things, most of them focusing on Cohen. But since Cohen is so close to Trump, there are questions about how involved Trump, and then the Trump campaign, were with the payoff.

Plus, since the payoff was during the election, if it had to do with the keeping her quiet to help with the election, then there is an argument to be made that it is actually a campaign contribution that would have exceeded campaign contribution limits.

Then there is also uncertainty about whether Cohen actually paid the hush money himself, or if he just basically washed the money, and Trump or the campaign picked up the tab in the end.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/25/596805368/payment-to-stormy-daniels-may-have-broken-campaign-finance-law

(11-11-2016 12:00 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I figured it might be worthwhile to start a thread about Trump's transition and administration, separate from the election thread.

So far looks like we might see Gingrich, Christie, Guliani, and maybe even Sarah Palin in the administration if the rumors are true.

The two names I'm hearing for Secretary of State are Corker and Bolton. God help us if it's Bolton. I would probably strongly disagree with Corker on a regular basis, but he's a qualified candidate. Bolton is a loon who is held in complete contempt by most of our allies. I could even see the Senate rejecting him.

(03-25-2018 07:48 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Given that there is such a concerted character assassination attempt aimed at destroying Trump, is it inevitable that they will get him at some point? Does he have any chance of beating all of them?

Concerted character assassination attempts - are you referring to news organizations covering his tweets, affairs, business dealings, etc? Basically exposing the real skeletons in the closet of the most important person in the country?

(03-25-2018 07:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Given that there is such a concerted character assassination attempt aimed at destroying Trump, is it inevitable that they will get him at some point? Does he have any chance of beating all of them?

(03-25-2018 07:22 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  My understanding is, depending on how and when the hush money was paid by Michael Cohen (if it actually was paid by him), he could be disbarred.

(03-25-2018 08:06 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Given that there is such a concerted character assassination attempt aimed at destroying Trump, is it inevitable that they will get him at some point? Does he have any chance of beating all of them?

It might be fair argument that Trump's character cannot actually be assassinated, for the same reasons that the Clintons cannot be shamed.

(03-25-2018 08:34 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:22 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  My understanding is, depending on how and when the hush money was paid by Michael Cohen (if it actually was paid by him), he could be disbarred.

That would make Trump the second of the two 2016 presidential candidates to have a disbarred attorney in their inner circle. What times we live in!

(03-25-2018 07:46 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:30 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:22 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:04 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 11:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Why are Trump’s affairs important? That is what the all Trump, all the time networks are covering now.

So, nobody wanted to tackle this?

They aren't, and it's a bit annoying how much air time they are getting. But people love gossip, so I guess that's the world we have to live in.

The Stormy Daniel's story does have merit, though, because of the NDA and subsequent issues with the hush money she was paid. My understanding is, depending on how and when the hush money was paid by Michael Cohen (if it actually was paid by him), he could be disbarred.

So this is really a Michael Cohen disbarment story? Seems like small potatoes to be on CNN et al all the time.

In any case, marital fidelity seems to be unrelated to job performance. Some of our best presidents were notoriusly unfaithful (FDR, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Clinton) and some of the worst upright family men(Nixon, Carter, Obama).

At the moment, it's a bunch of things, most of them focusing on Cohen. But since Cohen is so close to Trump, there are questions about how involved Trump, and then the Trump campaign, were with the payoff.

Plus, since the payoff was during the election, if it had to do with the keeping her quiet to help with the election, then there is an argument to be made that it is actually a campaign contribution that would have exceeded campaign contribution limits.

Then there is also uncertainty about whether Cohen actually paid the hush money himself, or if he just basically washed the money, and Trump or the campaign picked up the tab in the end.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/25/596805368/payment-to-stormy-daniels-may-have-broken-campaign-finance-law

(03-25-2018 07:48 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Given that there is such a concerted character assassination attempt aimed at destroying Trump, is it inevitable that they will get him at some point? Does he have any chance of beating all of them?

Concerted character assassination attempts - are you referring to news organizations covering his tweets, affairs, business dealings, etc? Basically exposing the real skeletons in the closet of the most important person in the country?

(03-25-2018 10:29 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:48 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Given that there is such a concerted character assassination attempt aimed at destroying Trump, is it inevitable that they will get him at some point? Does he have any chance of beating all of them?

Concerted character assassination attempts - are you referring to news organizations covering his tweets, affairs, business dealings, etc? Basically exposing the real skeletons in the closet of the most important person in the country?

I am guessing it would include all the coverage about "chaos" in the WH, all the reports that he is unfit, all the reports he is crazy, all the reports he should be impeached, and oh, yes, all the reports he conspired with Russia and/or is a puppet of Putin.

Not to mention the reports of his decades-ago affairs, decades old sexist jokes, innuendo about his taxes, innuendo about his attitude toward his daughter, and discussions of his divorces and bankruptcies.

Not to mention the dossier and the attacks on his family, friends, and associates.

It has evolved from digging up news to digging up dirt to slinging all the dirt they can find or invent against the wall to see what will stick(in the minds of the voters).

I think the effort will not result in him leaving or being out out of office, but will result in him not running for reelection. It may well result in the secondary objective, getting control of the Congress so they can obstruct his agenda.

(03-25-2018 10:18 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:46 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:30 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:22 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:04 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  So, nobody wanted to tackle this?

They aren't, and it's a bit annoying how much air time they are getting. But people love gossip, so I guess that's the world we have to live in.

The Stormy Daniel's story does have merit, though, because of the NDA and subsequent issues with the hush money she was paid. My understanding is, depending on how and when the hush money was paid by Michael Cohen (if it actually was paid by him), he could be disbarred.

So this is really a Michael Cohen disbarment story? Seems like small potatoes to be on CNN et al all the time.

In any case, marital fidelity seems to be unrelated to job performance. Some of our best presidents were notoriusly unfaithful (FDR, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Clinton) and some of the worst upright family men(Nixon, Carter, Obama).

At the moment, it's a bunch of things, most of them focusing on Cohen. But since Cohen is so close to Trump, there are questions about how involved Trump, and then the Trump campaign, were with the payoff.

Plus, since the payoff was during the election, if it had to do with the keeping her quiet to help with the election, then there is an argument to be made that it is actually a campaign contribution that would have exceeded campaign contribution limits.

Then there is also uncertainty about whether Cohen actually paid the hush money himself, or if he just basically washed the money, and Trump or the campaign picked up the tab in the end.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/25/596805368/payment-to-stormy-daniels-may-have-broken-campaign-finance-law

If Trump picked it up himself, what would be wrong with that? A campaign contribution to himself?

(03-26-2018 12:48 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 10:29 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:48 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Given that there is such a concerted character assassination attempt aimed at destroying Trump, is it inevitable that they will get him at some point? Does he have any chance of beating all of them?

Concerted character assassination attempts - are you referring to news organizations covering his tweets, affairs, business dealings, etc? Basically exposing the real skeletons in the closet of the most important person in the country?

I am guessing it would include all the coverage about "chaos" in the WH, all the reports that he is unfit, all the reports he is crazy, all the reports he should be impeached, and oh, yes, all the reports he conspired with Russia and/or is a puppet of Putin.

Not to mention the reports of his decades-ago affairs, decades old sexist jokes, innuendo about his taxes, innuendo about his attitude toward his daughter, and discussions of his divorces and bankruptcies.

Not to mention the dossier and the attacks on his family, friends, and associates.

It has evolved from digging up news to digging up dirt to slinging all the dirt they can find or invent against the wall to see what will stick(in the minds of the voters).

I think the effort will not result in him leaving or being out out of office, but will result in him not running for reelection. It may well result in the secondary objective, getting control of the Congress so they can obstruct his agenda.

Democrats have already ground the Senate to a halt over appointments. I remember seeing the other day that the Democrats have invoked cloture on appointment votes something like 2x more than the total of the last 5 Presidents' terms.

I think we have come to the Rubicon.

(03-25-2018 07:04 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 11:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Why are Trump’s affairs important? That is what the all Trump, all the time networks are covering now.

So, nobody wanted to tackle this?

(03-26-2018 08:07 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  For either party to claim moral superiority is a dangerous game to play. Because neither party has a monopoly on morality. Or immorality.

The way I look at politics, I'm not hiring Jesus, I'm hiring somebody to do a job. If he does the job I want done, then what he does on his own time is his own business.

(03-26-2018 07:57 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:04 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 11:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Why are Trump’s affairs important? That is what the all Trump, all the time networks are covering now.

So, nobody wanted to tackle this?

In the case of Stormy Daniels, no doubt ratings plays a role - CNN's top guy doing the interview on CBS.

And let's face it, POTUS and the Porn Star is a new level of salaciousness.

Quote:Also there is the possible campaign law violation.

Quote:And the accusation of intimidation and threats of violence.

Quote:And, yes, simple schadenfreude after years of being lectured by the right on our alleged moral inferiority and the right's inherent moral superiority.

Quote:Having said all that, it's the Bolton nomination that is the scariest, most important development of the past week.

(03-26-2018 08:21 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  

(03-26-2018 08:07 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  For either party to claim moral superiority is a dangerous game to play. Because neither party has a monopoly on morality. Or immorality.

The way I look at politics, I'm not hiring Jesus, I'm hiring somebody to do a job. If he does the job I want done, then what he does on his own time is his own business.

If it turns out there were serious violations of campaign finance law or that the accusations of sending thugs to physically intimidate and threaten her turn out to be true, do you still not care?

Honest question.

(03-26-2018 08:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-26-2018 07:57 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:04 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 11:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Why are Trump’s affairs important? That is what the all Trump, all the time networks are covering now.

So, nobody wanted to tackle this?

In the case of Stormy Daniels, no doubt ratings plays a role - CNN's top guy doing the interview on CBS.

And let's face it, POTUS and the Porn Star is a new level of salaciousness.

So it IS about her being a PORN star? Here lad was about to convince me that what these women did or were had nothing to do with it, it was all about the lawyer.

Quote:Also there is the possible campaign law violation.

A technicality at best. $130K out of millions? At worst, a fabrication so they can continue talking about the PORN STAR.

Quote:And the accusation of intimidation and threats of violence.

Those would be concerning if they really happened.

Quote:And, yes, simple schadenfreude after years of being lectured by the right on our alleged moral inferiority and the right's inherent moral superiority.

A honest response, and the first such I have heard from the left. Now you know how we on the right feel after years of being referred to as racists, xenophobes, homophobes, and just plain deplorable.

But nobody, I repeat nobody, voted for Trump because of his moral rectitude, unless it was in comparison to hers. People voted for him for the same reason they voted for Obama - they were hoping for change. Kind of deceptive to make it about morals after the fact.

Quote:Having said all that, it's the Bolton nomination that is the scariest, most important development of the past week.

We can agree on this. Yet the big story on your own MSNBC and CNN is PORN STAR, PORN STAR PORN STAR. Maybe if she was a RUSSIAN porn star... but the media has not yet found out that she once performed in front of an audience that included people with relatives in Russia.

I have mixed feelings on Bolton. My first and main feeling is - I don't like the guy. I don't like him personally.

My second and more minor thought is - well, let's try standing up to these bullies. Twenty years of bending over backwards and kissing our own ass hasn't stopped them - if anything it seems to have conditioned them to expect more of the same, which your side advocates. Bolton is the furthest there is from more of the same.

Quote:"Neither the Trump Organization nor the Trump campaign was a party to the transaction with Ms. Clifford, and neither reimbursed me for the payment, either directly or indirectly."

(03-25-2018 07:52 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:46 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:30 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:22 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:04 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  So, nobody wanted to tackle this?

They aren't, and it's a bit annoying how much air time they are getting. But people love gossip, so I guess that's the world we have to live in.

The Stormy Daniel's story does have merit, though, because of the NDA and subsequent issues with the hush money she was paid. My understanding is, depending on how and when the hush money was paid by Michael Cohen (if it actually was paid by him), he could be disbarred.

So this is really a Michael Cohen disbarment story? Seems like small potatoes to be on CNN et al all the time.

In any case, marital fidelity seems to be unrelated to job performance. Some of our best presidents were notoriusly unfaithful (FDR, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Clinton) and some of the worst upright family men(Nixon, Carter, Obama).

At the moment, it's a bunch of things, most of them focusing on Cohen. But since Cohen is so close to Trump, there are questions about how involved Trump, and then the Trump campaign, were with the payoff.

Plus, since the payoff was during the election, if it had to do with the keeping her quiet to help with the election, then there is an argument to be made that it is actually a campaign contribution that would have exceeded campaign contribution limits.

Then there is also uncertainty about whether Cohen actually paid the hush money himself, or if he just basically washed the money, and Trump or the campaign picked up the tab in the end.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/25/596805368/payment-to-stormy-daniels-may-have-broken-campaign-finance-law

And again the loaded language. You are on a roll this week Lad. Maybe, just maybe, the monies were a valid settlement of an ongoing claim?

I guess you can point us to some specific language that Trump or Cohen used to say or indicate that all this was was "hush money" in a source, right? I look forward to that specific verbiage from them. Or is this a third party characterization (perhaps 'propaganda'?) of that?