(02-11-2018 05:58 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  We are not just talking about any job here – this stuff came up in an FBI background check because it’s a position that needs to have security clearance to see what the POTUS sees. As Chris Christie said this morning (DJT has me quoting *another* person I never thought I’d quote!) the evidence was pretty damn convincing in this one, and it’s not random accusations - it’s FBI vetting for a security clearance.

The reports are that the WH knew about this in January. Of 2017. It’s blowing up in their faces now because they did nothing and tried to hide it. They have known for a year he wasn’t going to get permanent security clearance, but let him continue to work there on his temporary clearance.

That doesn’t even get to the moral issue. Setting aside security clearance, why were they OK with letting a guy like this work with them? Where is their moral compass, their sense of basic decency? But not surprising since Trump did not utter one word of sympathy to the women in his statement. Merely lamented the effect on Porter, the abuser.

My wife volunteers at Safe Place in Austin, which aides women and children who are victims of abuse. It’s really opened my eyes to how much truly horrible stuff goes on out there. It is rarely ever “a one time thing” – most abusers are serial abusers. Women in this country literally die because we as a society don’t take their claims seriously and we send them back to the abusers. And then we wonder why so many won’t speak up. But no, you’re right Donald. The real victims are the abusers.

Just when I think this admin can’t get any more disgusting.

(02-14-2018 12:52 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  In any other administration, the whole porn star payoff would be a huge scandal, not a footnote.

So now we are supposed to believe Trump's lawyer paid a porn star six figures out of is own pocket - for no particular reason? Doesn't even come close to passing the smell test.

(02-14-2018 11:11 PM)75src Wrote:  Why would the porn star admit to having sex with someone as disgusting as Trump?

(02-14-2018 12:52 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  In any other administration, the whole porn star payoff would be a huge scandal, not a footnote.

So now we are supposed to believe Trump's lawyer paid a porn star six figures out of is own pocket - for no particular reason? Doesn't even come close to passing the smell test.

(02-14-2018 12:52 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  In any other administration, the whole porn star payoff would be a huge scandal, not a footnote.

So now we are supposed to believe Trump's lawyer paid a porn star six figures out of is own pocket - for no particular reason? Doesn't even come close to passing the smell test.

(02-15-2018 09:25 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 12:52 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  In any other administration, the whole porn star payoff would be a huge scandal, not a footnote.

So now we are supposed to believe Trump's lawyer paid a porn star six figures out of is own pocket - for no particular reason? Doesn't even come close to passing the smell test.

Scandal, yes. Not sure how huge, this soon after the Clinton administration.

(02-15-2018 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:25 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 12:52 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  In any other administration, the whole porn star payoff would be a huge scandal, not a footnote.

So now we are supposed to believe Trump's lawyer paid a porn star six figures out of is own pocket - for no particular reason? Doesn't even come close to passing the smell test.

Scandal, yes. Not sure how huge, this soon after the Clinton administration.

And Kennedy, and the other Kennedy, and Spitzer, and Edwards, and Weiner.

I guess the Spitzer thing is closest to this. Married man paying a woman of dubious background. I never felt so sorry for a woman as I did for Spitzer's wife when she had to stand there while he made his public confession. He is a commentator on MSM now. Constantly rails at Trump. I wonder where she is.

(02-15-2018 10:04 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:25 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 12:52 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  In any other administration, the whole porn star payoff would be a huge scandal, not a footnote.

So now we are supposed to believe Trump's lawyer paid a porn star six figures out of is own pocket - for no particular reason? Doesn't even come close to passing the smell test.

Scandal, yes. Not sure how huge, this soon after the Clinton administration.

And Kennedy, and the other Kennedy, and Spitzer, and Edwards, and Weiner.

I guess the Spitzer thing is closest to this. Married man paying a woman of dubious background. I never felt so sorry for a woman as I did for Spitzer's wife when she had to stand there while he made his public confession. He is a commentator on MSM now. Constantly rails at Trump. I wonder where she is.

Remember that guy John Edwards? His story was one the most astonishingly sleazy I've ever heard.

He ended up in the political dustbin, but he is still quite rich, and back in the ambulance-chasing business.

(02-15-2018 10:59 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:04 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:25 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 12:52 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  In any other administration, the whole porn star payoff would be a huge scandal, not a footnote.

So now we are supposed to believe Trump's lawyer paid a porn star six figures out of is own pocket - for no particular reason? Doesn't even come close to passing the smell test.

Scandal, yes. Not sure how huge, this soon after the Clinton administration.

And Kennedy, and the other Kennedy, and Spitzer, and Edwards, and Weiner.

I guess the Spitzer thing is closest to this. Married man paying a woman of dubious background. I never felt so sorry for a woman as I did for Spitzer's wife when she had to stand there while he made his public confession. He is a commentator on MSM now. Constantly rails at Trump. I wonder where she is.

Remember that guy John Edwards? His story was one the most astonishingly sleazy I've ever heard.

He ended up in the political dustbin, but he is still quite rich, and back in the ambulance-chasing business.

Let's not leave ol' Newt out of this, considering how ironic it was he was railing against Clinton for issues that centered around sex and infidelity, all the while cheating on his wife. A little irony there.

Both parties are full of pretty scummy characters - it's just nice to see that those on the right who used to try falsely hold up the flame of moral superiority in this field finally implicitly admit it was all a sham.

So long as things are consensual, I could care less how many porn stars one beds, how many wives on has, etc. I do think there is something to be said for one's character in how they go about those things (as in, being honest and open with one's spouse, etc.) but it's nice that these consensual transgressions are not really killers of one's aspirations.

(02-15-2018 10:59 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:04 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:25 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 12:52 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  In any other administration, the whole porn star payoff would be a huge scandal, not a footnote.

So now we are supposed to believe Trump's lawyer paid a porn star six figures out of is own pocket - for no particular reason? Doesn't even come close to passing the smell test.

Scandal, yes. Not sure how huge, this soon after the Clinton administration.

And Kennedy, and the other Kennedy, and Spitzer, and Edwards, and Weiner.

I guess the Spitzer thing is closest to this. Married man paying a woman of dubious background. I never felt so sorry for a woman as I did for Spitzer's wife when she had to stand there while he made his public confession. He is a commentator on MSM now. Constantly rails at Trump. I wonder where she is.

Remember that guy John Edwards? His story was one the most astonishingly sleazy I've ever heard.

He ended up in the political dustbin, but he is still quite rich, and back in the ambulance-chasing business.

Let's not leave ol' Newt out of this, considering how ironic it was he was railing against Clinton for issues that centered around sex and infidelity, all the while cheating on his wife. A little irony there.

Both parties are full of pretty scummy characters - it's just nice to see that those on the right who used to try falsely hold up the flame of moral superiority in this field finally implicitly admit it was all a sham.

So long as things are consensual, I could care less how many porn stars one beds, how many wives on has, etc. I do think there is something to be said for one's character in how they go about those things (as in, being honest and open with one's spouse, etc.) but it's nice that these consensual transgressions are not really killers of one's aspirations.

(02-15-2018 11:21 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:59 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:04 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:25 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Scandal, yes. Not sure how huge, this soon after the Clinton administration.

And Kennedy, and the other Kennedy, and Spitzer, and Edwards, and Weiner.

I guess the Spitzer thing is closest to this. Married man paying a woman of dubious background. I never felt so sorry for a woman as I did for Spitzer's wife when she had to stand there while he made his public confession. He is a commentator on MSM now. Constantly rails at Trump. I wonder where she is.

Remember that guy John Edwards? His story was one the most astonishingly sleazy I've ever heard.

He ended up in the political dustbin, but he is still quite rich, and back in the ambulance-chasing business.

Let's not leave ol' Newt out of this, considering how ironic it was he was railing against Clinton for issues that centered around sex and infidelity, all the while cheating on his wife. A little irony there.

Both parties are full of pretty scummy characters - it's just nice to see that those on the right who used to try falsely hold up the flame of moral superiority in this field finally implicitly admit it was all a sham.

So long as things are consensual, I could care less how many porn stars one beds, how many wives on has, etc. I do think there is something to be said for one's character in how they go about those things (as in, being honest and open with one's spouse, etc.) but it's nice that these consensual transgressions are not really killers of one's aspirations.

are you married, Lad?

Lots of marriages have survived infidelity. most of those survived because the betrayed spouse never knew. mine survived for years - until I knew.

(02-15-2018 11:57 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:21 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:59 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:04 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  And Kennedy, and the other Kennedy, and Spitzer, and Edwards, and Weiner.

I guess the Spitzer thing is closest to this. Married man paying a woman of dubious background. I never felt so sorry for a woman as I did for Spitzer's wife when she had to stand there while he made his public confession. He is a commentator on MSM now. Constantly rails at Trump. I wonder where she is.

Remember that guy John Edwards? His story was one the most astonishingly sleazy I've ever heard.

He ended up in the political dustbin, but he is still quite rich, and back in the ambulance-chasing business.

Let's not leave ol' Newt out of this, considering how ironic it was he was railing against Clinton for issues that centered around sex and infidelity, all the while cheating on his wife. A little irony there.

Both parties are full of pretty scummy characters - it's just nice to see that those on the right who used to try falsely hold up the flame of moral superiority in this field finally implicitly admit it was all a sham.

So long as things are consensual, I could care less how many porn stars one beds, how many wives on has, etc. I do think there is something to be said for one's character in how they go about those things (as in, being honest and open with one's spouse, etc.) but it's nice that these consensual transgressions are not really killers of one's aspirations.

are you married, Lad?

Lots of marriages have survived infidelity. most of those survived because the betrayed spouse never knew. mine survived for years - until I knew.

What's your point? How does my personal marital status matter to my opinion about how politicians act in the bed room?

As long as two adults are consenting, that act itself doesn't matter to me, and are not automatic disqualifies for someone to run for office. I fail to see how my marital status matters.

(02-15-2018 04:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:57 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 11:21 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:59 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 10:04 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  Remember that guy John Edwards? His story was one the most astonishingly sleazy I've ever heard.

He ended up in the political dustbin, but he is still quite rich, and back in the ambulance-chasing business.

Let's not leave ol' Newt out of this, considering how ironic it was he was railing against Clinton for issues that centered around sex and infidelity, all the while cheating on his wife. A little irony there.

Both parties are full of pretty scummy characters - it's just nice to see that those on the right who used to try falsely hold up the flame of moral superiority in this field finally implicitly admit it was all a sham.

So long as things are consensual, I could care less how many porn stars one beds, how many wives on has, etc. I do think there is something to be said for one's character in how they go about those things (as in, being honest and open with one's spouse, etc.) but it's nice that these consensual transgressions are not really killers of one's aspirations.

are you married, Lad?

Lots of marriages have survived infidelity. most of those survived because the betrayed spouse never knew. mine survived for years - until I knew.

What's your point? How does my personal marital status matter to my opinion about how politicians act in the bed room?

As long as two adults are consenting, that act itself doesn't matter to me, and are not automatic disqualifies for someone to run for office. I fail to see how my marital status matters.

It was this:

"...being honest and open with one's spouse, etc."

It kind of smacks of a an inexperience in marital matters, like you think Trump should have told Melania, "Hey Hon, I'm going to have sex with a porn star tonight, don't wait up" and she would have answered "Fine darling, as long as you are honest and open about it". In other words, a bit idealistic.

Not that it doesn't happen. One of my cousins lives in a house with her husband AND her lover. However, that came about partially because her husband is a devout Catholic who will not divorce and also is a stubborn man who will not be run out of his house. But I bet she does not have his OK on the situation, even though she is honest and open about the matter. BTW, the most far left of my cousins, a LULAC member.

Quote: I do think there is something to be said for one's character in how they go about those things (as in, being honest and open with one's spouse, etc.) but it's nice that these consensual transgressions are not really killers of one's aspirations.

(02-15-2018 04:51 PM)mrbig Wrote:  My opinion on politicians who cheat on their spouses has changed drastically over the years, perhaps than my opinion on any other issue. When I was in high school and college, I believed that a personal failing like that didn't affect the ability of the politician to do a good job.

But now that I'm married (and older), I believe the promises made to a spouse are amongst the strongest promises/vows one can make. My opinion is now that if a politician can't be trusted to keep the most important promise he/she might ever make, how can he/she possibly be trusted to keep their other promises and act in an ethical manner? I'm largely to the point that it should disqualify someone from public office (not that a law should be passed to that effect, just that I'm not sure I would vote for such a person). You can tweak fact patterns to make me feel slightly better about it (open marriages, individuals who are separated, when you think your husband is dead but really he was kidnapped and held by terrorists in Iraq for 7 years as they slowly try to convert him into becoming a terrorist, etc.).

If the spouse wants to forgive, that is fine with me. None of my business. But a breach of trust on something that important scares me. It isn't about the sex, it is about the breaking of promises and the lies. If you are willing to break that important of a promise to the person who should ostensibly be the most important person in your life, and then cover it up and lie about it....

(02-15-2018 04:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 04:51 PM)mrbig Wrote:  My opinion on politicians who cheat on their spouses has changed drastically over the years, perhaps than my opinion on any other issue. When I was in high school and college, I believed that a personal failing like that didn't affect the ability of the politician to do a good job.

But now that I'm married (and older), I believe the promises made to a spouse are amongst the strongest promises/vows one can make. My opinion is now that if a politician can't be trusted to keep the most important promise he/she might ever make, how can he/she possibly be trusted to keep their other promises and act in an ethical manner? I'm largely to the point that it should disqualify someone from public office (not that a law should be passed to that effect, just that I'm not sure I would vote for such a person). You can tweak fact patterns to make me feel slightly better about it (open marriages, individuals who are separated, when you think your husband is dead but really he was kidnapped and held by terrorists in Iraq for 7 years as they slowly try to convert him into becoming a terrorist, etc.).

If the spouse wants to forgive, that is fine with me. None of my business. But a breach of trust on something that important scares me. It isn't about the sex, it is about the breaking of promises and the lies. If you are willing to break that important of a promise to the person who should ostensibly be the most important person in your life, and then cover it up and lie about it....

Your comment is why I think it should color someone's opinion of the character of the person, but I still don't think that single act of cheating is disqualifying. But there can be other circumstances surrounding that act to cumulatively make someone unfit for office for a multitude of reasons - untrustworthiness being one of them.

But as Trump has shown, we may not actually care about a persons character anymore.

(02-15-2018 04:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 04:51 PM)mrbig Wrote:  My opinion on politicians who cheat on their spouses has changed drastically over the years, perhaps than my opinion on any other issue. When I was in high school and college, I believed that a personal failing like that didn't affect the ability of the politician to do a good job.
But now that I'm married (and older), I believe the promises made to a spouse are amongst the strongest promises/vows one can make. My opinion is now that if a politician can't be trusted to keep the most important promise he/she might ever make, how can he/she possibly be trusted to keep their other promises and act in an ethical manner? I'm largely to the point that it should disqualify someone from public office (not that a law should be passed to that effect, just that I'm not sure I would vote for such a person). You can tweak fact patterns to make me feel slightly better about it (open marriages, individuals who are separated, when you think your husband is dead but really he was kidnapped and held by terrorists in Iraq for 7 years as they slowly try to convert him into becoming a terrorist, etc.).
If the spouse wants to forgive, that is fine with me. None of my business. But a breach of trust on something that important scares me. It isn't about the sex, it is about the breaking of promises and the lies. If you are willing to break that important of a promise to the person who should ostensibly be the most important person in your life, and then cover it up and lie about it....

Your comment is why I think it should color someone's opinion of the character of the person, but I still don't think that single act of cheating is disqualifying. But there can be other circumstances surrounding that act to cumulatively make someone unfit for office for a multitude of reasons - untrustworthiness being one of them.
But as Trump has shown, we may not actually care about a persons character anymore.