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JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - Dr. Ebirt - 06-17-2016 10:00 AM
http://www.jmusports.com/news/2016/6/16/bourneCOA.aspx
Beginning in 17-18.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - JMU2004 - 06-17-2016 10:08 AM
Kinda think this is a CAA wide thing. Expect all remaining members to announce soon.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - Dr. Ebirt - 06-17-2016 10:09 AM
Personally, I hope so. Good for you guys.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - NC Tribe - 06-17-2016 10:43 AM
We are raising money to pay for summer school and W&M is going to do COA as well?
Where is that money coming from?
I guess the Men' team can sell another game, but I don't know where the Women's team's money will come from.
I'm not writing another check.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - Tribe1693 - 06-17-2016 10:55 AM
Just curious...is anyone aware of any data out there that shows that COA makes a difference as to what school a recruit commits to? I know it hasn't been around very long, so there may not be much of a sample size yet.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - 62Indian - 06-17-2016 11:07 AM
(06-17-2016 10:43 AM)NC Tribe Wrote: We are raising money to pay for summer school and W&M is going to do COA as well?
Where is that money coming from?
I guess the Men' team can sell another game, but I don't know where the Women's team's money will come from.
The money for the Women's Team will have to come from the Men's Team "selling" another game, of course.
I'm not writing another check.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - billymac - 06-17-2016 11:09 AM
If we are serious about going after the type talent that will keep elevating our program (and, eventually, get us into the NCAA tourney), it will become a necessity. It may not be a big deal the first couple years, but to think it won't ever come into play is just whistling past the graveyard.
You don't give the better talent (desired by many schools) a reason to say no.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - mrjoolius - 06-17-2016 11:35 AM
I will say as a former bball player that went through the recruiting process that CoA would matter. I don't think you pick your school because of it, but all things considered, it is a factor.
Competition is fierce, especially for the recruits we all want here. Yes, it sucks to have to come up with more dollars for an already cash strapped program. But, it seems that it will soon be the standard D1 cost of doing business. It could benefit the tribe & the CAA being early adapters.
Re: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - mrjoolius - 06-17-2016 11:41 AM
Talk on the Towson thread got into CoA, so I moved it over here.
(06-17-2016 11:04 AM)62Indian Wrote: You should be able to make a very strong argument that teams that offer the COA have an unfair advantage over teams that do not. So why allow a team that has an unfair advantage to play in the Conference tourney and compete for a berth in the NCAAT?? There are enough "semi-pro" players already playing for some teams in the CAA.
I'm guessing that for jmu to go CoA and to announce publicly, the rest of the CAA is on board. Individual schools may not like it, but they would have to go along with it. I guess the question is do all the other schools fall in line, or some offer and some don't.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - JMU2004 - 06-17-2016 12:11 PM
(06-17-2016 11:41 AM)mrjoolius Wrote: Talk on the Towson thread got into CoA, so I moved it over here.
(06-17-2016 11:04 AM)62Indian Wrote: You should be able to make a very strong argument that teams that offer the COA have an unfair advantage over teams that do not. So why allow a team that has an unfair advantage to play in the Conference tourney and compete for a berth in the NCAAT?? There are enough "semi-pro" players already playing for some teams in the CAA.
I'm guessing that for jmu to go CoA and to announce publicly, the rest of the CAA is on board. Individual schools may not like it, but they would have to go along with it. I guess the question is do all the other schools fall in line, or some offer and some don't.
My take as well. JMU penned the anti-COA letter that W&M signed, and has been very "pro" CAA over the years. We wouldn't do anything w/o consulting with the CAA as a whole, and certainly wouldn't offer it unless a majority of membership was on board.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - jmu98 - 06-17-2016 12:36 PM
(06-17-2016 12:11 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:(06-17-2016 11:41 AM)mrjoolius Wrote: Talk on the Towson thread got into CoA, so I moved it over here.
(06-17-2016 11:04 AM)62Indian Wrote: You should be able to make a very strong argument that teams that offer the COA have an unfair advantage over teams that do not. So why allow a team that has an unfair advantage to play in the Conference tourney and compete for a berth in the NCAAT?? There are enough "semi-pro" players already playing for some teams in the CAA.
I'm guessing that for jmu to go CoA and to announce publicly, the rest of the CAA is on board. Individual schools may not like it, but they would have to go along with it. I guess the question is do all the other schools fall in line, or some offer and some don't.
My take as well. JMU penned the anti-COA letter that W&M signed, and has been very "pro" CAA over the years. We wouldn't do anything w/o consulting with the CAA as a whole, and certainly wouldn't offer it unless a majority of membership was on board.
We clearly stated in the press release that we consulted the CAA. It sounds as if the CAA itself will not have set stance on COA, but that most schools will end up offering it for bball.
Re: RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - Tribal - 06-17-2016 12:42 PM
(06-17-2016 10:55 AM)Tribe1693 Wrote: Just curious...is anyone aware of any data out there that shows that COA makes a difference as to what school a recruit commits to? I know it hasn't been around very long, so there may not be much of a sample size yet.
Towson's coach Ambrose claimed he lost a recruit to UNC-Charlotte because they offered COA.
JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - WM_Destro - 06-17-2016 01:09 PM
(06-17-2016 11:09 AM)billymac Wrote: If we are serious about going after the type talent that will keep elevating our program (and, eventually, get us into the NCAA tourney), it will become a necessity. It may not be a big deal the first couple years, but to think it won't ever come into play is just whistling past the graveyard.
You don't give the better talent (desired by many schools) a reason to say no.
Agree 100%
I'm personally not a fan of CoA, but I'm a realist and recognize it's inevitable. I'm just hoping we can find the proper means of funding such a program.
If for some reason W&M abstains when most or all of the conference moves on CoA.....well.....just be ready for the program to settle back into the abyss that has been much of our history.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - Mrs. Got Ribe - 06-17-2016 02:47 PM
(06-17-2016 01:09 PM)WM_Destro Wrote:(06-17-2016 11:09 AM)billymac Wrote: If we are serious about going after the type talent that will keep elevating our program (and, eventually, get us into the NCAA tourney), it will become a necessity. It may not be a big deal the first couple years, but to think it won't ever come into play is just whistling past the graveyard.
You don't give the better talent (desired by many schools) a reason to say no.
Agree 100%
I'm personally not a fan of CoA, but I'm a realist and recognize it's inevitable. I'm just hoping we can find the proper means of funding such a program.
If for some reason W&M abstains when most or all of the conference moves on CoA.....well.....just be ready for the program to settle back into the abyss that has been much of our history.
Totally agree. We already fight against better-funded programs to get the recruits we do. I don't want our coaches to have to fight yet another battle. Our basketball program is on the brink of destiny. Let's hope the athletic department provides them with the resources they need.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - Tribeheart - 06-17-2016 11:22 PM
At this stage JMU, Towson and CofC have added COA...
The A10 mandated it before last season for all of it's basketball teams. Besides the conference and facility advantage, did the COA have any impact on Tribe recruits Sherod and Godwin choosing Richmond over W&M? Richmond's COA, as designated by their financial aid department, is $1300 annually, or say $160/mo (8 mo). That seems like a reasonable amount for extra costs, but doubt that would have been a significant factor in recruitment.
JMU announced their COA at $4465 annually. Say $555/mo.....Hmmmmm, that sure pays for a nice car...Yeah, I think JMU would be the place for me....
So, if you thought the concern with COA was going to be about how P5 schools were going to be kept in check when establishing their respective COA, Richmond vs JMU is an example, already, of the major inherent problem with where all of this is headed. All tax free, discretionary income, errr scholarship.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - Tribal - 06-18-2016 12:48 AM
Do you know for certain COA is nontaxable or are you saying $4,500/yr is below the poverty line, thus the IRS refunds the "employee" a full refund on taxes paid?
Where's Beancounter when we need him?
For what it's worth, a JMU-level COA for our basketball programs would only cost $125,000. That's a drop in the bucket and absolutely necessary if we have any hope of #RisingTribe.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - Tribeheart - 06-18-2016 01:02 AM
It's currently classified as a stipend and treated as part of their scholarship. 1977 IRS internal ruling classified scholarships as exempt, but there has been no IRS ruling yet specific to COA, and that could change. If it does, then schools would probably withhold taxes automatically. The other problem with it, is that it could cause school athletic departments to potentially lose their tax exempt status, if the COA's are taxed and reach a level that "student-athletes" are then perceived as regular wage earners.
For more examples, South Carolina's COA is $400/mo, Tennessee is $700/mo. Gas must cost a lot more in Tennessee. Maybe that's why Richmond lost one time Tribe recruit, Grant Williams, to Tennessee. $160/mo vs $700/mo...doubt the $60,000/yr vs $42,000/yr value of the scholarship has any impact, but that extra $540/mo directly in my pocket may be a no brainer.
Tony and staff do a great job of targeting players that want to be here for the right reasons, and for which I doubt that COA would ever be a deciding factor, unless the individual player's family economic status increased its weight in the decision process. Maybe the better solution is to give some discretion to provide an extra stipend in those situations that warranted it, as determined by the financial aid department.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - BigTribe2 - 06-18-2016 05:40 AM
I find the whole COA thing ridiculous.
It's just a front started by the Power Five universities to funnel cash payments to athletes...it will be used by many as a salary to be spent on any frivolous thing they wish, forget cost of attendance!. It comes perilously close to professionalism--being paid cash to play.
And how can schools legally pay some athletes on one or two teams and not other teams?
I don't know is W&M and/or the CAA will cough up this money, but, at least to this individual, it is
terrible.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - WMInTheBurg - 06-18-2016 07:26 AM
(06-18-2016 05:40 AM)BigTribe2 Wrote: I find the whole COA thing ridiculous.
It's just a front started by the Power Five universities to funnel cash payments to athletes...it will be used by many as a salary to be spent on any frivolous thing they wish, forget cost of attendance!. It comes perilously close to professionalism--being paid cash to play.
And how can schools legally pay some athletes on one or two teams and not other teams?
I don't know is W&M and/or the CAA will cough up this money, but, at least to this individual, it is terrible.
Once you start talking about the economics of college sports it's all terrible. In the most generous terms, the NCAA is making m/billions off of players who are getting paid in scholarships. Almost none of that money goes to academics anywhere, so any argument made for the "purity" of college sports is ridiculous. COA is the first step in correcting that the student athletes are the only participants not getting their share. But make no mistake, P5 schools don't want to give out money to anyone. It's a method of separating themselves from the unwashed masses of the G5 and below.
It is going to get worse before it gets better though. P5 schools will be lobbying for more NCAA tournament appearances so that money doesn't make it to schools that would fund COA with it. I wouldn't be surprised to see P5 at larges increase at the cost of mid majors. You'll also see players like Marcus Thornton more commonly get recruited away by the P5 schools with the lure of higher COA. This will likely have a bigger impact at P5 schools that have lesser programs, though. There's only so many spots on the team for Kentucky & Duke. Teams like South Carolina, Vanderbilt, or Kansas St, that have had good teams before but usually are middle to bottom of their conference, but have financial strength to offer.
RE: JMU Announces C.O.A. For Basketball - Tribal - 06-18-2016 07:51 AM
So, the wealthier schools will simply escalate what they offer HS kids until it's enough to buy a championship. Stanford, ND, Harvard, and Texas will exploit this unless I missed talk about a "salary cap." And, if conferences impose a COA cap, look for ND football to jump to the top with their Independent status and unlimited bankroll.