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+------ Thread: Let's Talk New Arena (/thread-778241.html)
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - brock20 - 01-23-2018 11:49 PM
(01-23-2018 11:35 PM)Buc76 Wrote: My point is simply those schools have tons of empty seats. Bigger arenas don't assure bigger crowds.
As I have stated, THE ONLY WAY FOR ETSU TO GET AN ON CAMPUS, 8000 SEAT ARENA, IS FOR A DONOR TO PONY UP 35-50MIL LIKE JERRY RICHARDSON DID FOR WOFFORD.
THERE ARE NO OTHER RESOURCES AVAILABLE FOR SUCH A LARGE PROJECT.
Remember when there wasn’t enough money at ETSU for a football program even though all our peer schools had one? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - brock20 - 01-23-2018 11:57 PM
http://jmuconvo.com
JMU is building a new arena without the need for a 40 million dollar single donation. The facility is going to cost 88 million and they had to raise 12 million in private funds to get the project approved. 2.25 million of that came from naming rights that they just sold
http://www.dnronline.com/update/jmu-announces-union-bank-trust-center-to-replace-convo/article_66205158-b045-11e7-90e6-2b7382fed9db.html
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - posterformerlyknownasthedoctor - 01-24-2018 04:05 AM
(01-23-2018 03:28 PM)brock20 Wrote:(01-23-2018 03:13 PM)ekxixis1984 Wrote: People have finally started to get a rhythm in the new place, so jumping even in 5 years to another venue can be quite confusing to the average fair weather fan that is starting to show up to our games. The only event that should move us out of Freedom is if we joined a rather prestigious conference. (And I mean higher than the Sun Belt folks)
Just because Freedom Hall is starting to fill up a bit does not mean we need to get ahead of ourselves. This team won the SoCon, and averaged 3,500 in the first 6-7 games of the year. Also, nothing beats the place in terms of atmosphere currently.
P.S. Whoever thought of the Chick-Fil-A free throw challenge - Kudos.
I don't totally disagree with you but this is the time to plan this, when you are winning. You don't try to push something like this when you are losing.
ETSU should have had a new arena a long time ago. If the old regime would have got a new arena built that decade wouldnt have been a total disaster. Our facilities are still behind lots of our SoCon peers.
Well..........we *did* have a new arena, that put us FAR ahead of all our peers, and ahead of most small and mid-sized universities in the country. That was 1977. It was the envy of virtually all who experienced it. People came in DROVES. That's just the nature of the cyclicality of things. Everybody wants to, and often does, leap-frog their peers when their old facilities age out. 38 years or so for the Dome was a good run. Most such facilities are planned to have a lifetime of *at least* 30 years, sometimes more. This isn't an arms race, and it's not the cold war. (Which doesn't mean there's not room for improvement or to dream.) [And coincidentally, Freedom Hall is just over 40 years old, too.]
Back when a move to Freedom Hall was discussed, one of the alternatives being thrown around was to retro-fit the Dome by sort of building a "stadium-within-a-stadium". Obviously, as we all know, the ingress/egress issues would have to be solved. But it would be (much, much) cheaper to put an 8,000 seat facility *inside* the Dome than build one from scratch. Yes, the track might be lost, but most of the other uses of the Dome could still be had. And it would be on campus; in the perfect location; with practice courts and dressing rooms; parking in place; etc., etc. I'm not necessarily advocating this direction, but it should sure be looked at long before a decision is made. My memory is Sander kinda liked the idea before the (much) cheaper option of Freedom Hall was settled on. But don't quote me on that.
But really, as BucDoctor put it, it's just not time. There are too many other, more immediate needs. And it ain't gonna happen until Freedom Hall just becomes unworkable. It's FAR from that now. It's FAR from perfect - but it works. [By the way, there *used* to be a practice court in there, on the other side from the cafeteria. Don't know if that's been repurposed or not, but it was there. Not as nice as the ones in the Dome. Just sayin'.
Furthermore...................it's ridiculous to plan, or even think about such a venture until we've got more progress on a TRACK and an real TENNIS FACILITY - as promised 20 years ago. We desperately need an indoor tennis place. We desperately need a track. That's the most embarrassing thing about ETSU athletics right now - imo. I know some of you will disagree, but that's the way I see it.
To be clear, I'm not against a new arena. But it's just too early; even too early to plan. First things first. Both athletically *and* academically.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - brock20 - 01-24-2018 08:51 AM
(01-24-2018 04:05 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: Furthermore...................it's ridiculous to plan, or even think about such a venture until we've got more progress on a TRACK and an real TENNIS FACILITY - as promised 20 years ago. We desperately need an indoor tennis place. We desperately need a track. That's the most embarrassing thing about ETSU athletics right now - imo. I know some of you will disagree, but that's the way I see it.
To be clear, I'm not against a new arena. But it's just too early; even too early to plan. First things first. Both athletically *and* academically.
I'll agree about the track. Embarrassing not to have one. Not putting one around the soccer stadium was either arrogance or incompetence.
As for tennis...no.
It's not too early plan. In fact this is a great time. People who have lots of money, probably have more of it than they have had in a very long time or ever. Basketball is supposed to be our flagship sport, it should be treated as such.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - Running_Fool15 - 01-24-2018 09:08 AM
(01-24-2018 08:51 AM)brock20 Wrote:(01-24-2018 04:05 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: Furthermore...................it's ridiculous to plan, or even think about such a venture until we've got more progress on a TRACK and an real TENNIS FACILITY - as promised 20 years ago. We desperately need an indoor tennis place. We desperately need a track. That's the most embarrassing thing about ETSU athletics right now - imo. I know some of you will disagree, but that's the way I see it.
To be clear, I'm not against a new arena. But it's just too early; even too early to plan. First things first. Both athletically *and* academically.
I'll agree about the track. Embarrassing not to have one. Not putting one around the soccer stadium was either arrogance or incompetence.
As for tennis...no.
It's not too early plan. In fact this is a great time. People who have lots of money, probably have more of it than they have had in a very long time or ever. Basketball is supposed to be our flagship sport, it should be treated as such.
Yeah, the track thing is borderline criminal (granted I'm biased). Most Division 3 schools have tracks, let alone a D1 school with 14,000 + undergraduate students. It's ridiculously embarassing.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - squeak - 01-24-2018 09:22 AM
(01-24-2018 04:05 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:(01-23-2018 03:28 PM)brock20 Wrote:(01-23-2018 03:13 PM)ekxixis1984 Wrote: People have finally started to get a rhythm in the new place, so jumping even in 5 years to another venue can be quite confusing to the average fair weather fan that is starting to show up to our games. The only event that should move us out of Freedom is if we joined a rather prestigious conference. (And I mean higher than the Sun Belt folks)
Just because Freedom Hall is starting to fill up a bit does not mean we need to get ahead of ourselves. This team won the SoCon, and averaged 3,500 in the first 6-7 games of the year. Also, nothing beats the place in terms of atmosphere currently.
P.S. Whoever thought of the Chick-Fil-A free throw challenge - Kudos.
I don't totally disagree with you but this is the time to plan this, when you are winning. You don't try to push something like this when you are losing.
ETSU should have had a new arena a long time ago. If the old regime would have got a new arena built that decade wouldnt have been a total disaster. Our facilities are still behind lots of our SoCon peers.
Well..........we *did* have a new arena, that put us FAR ahead of all our peers, and ahead of most small and mid-sized universities in the country. That was 1977. It was the envy of virtually all who experienced it. People came in DROVES. That's just the nature of the cyclicality of things. Everybody wants to, and often does, leap-frog their peers when their old facilities age out. 38 years or so for the Dome was a good run. Most such facilities are planned to have a lifetime of *at least* 30 years, sometimes more. This isn't an arms race, and it's not the cold war. (Which doesn't mean there's not room for improvement or to dream.) [And coincidentally, Freedom Hall is just over 40 years old, too.]
Back when a move to Freedom Hall was discussed, one of the alternatives being thrown around was to retro-fit the Dome by sort of building a "stadium-within-a-stadium". Obviously, as we all know, the ingress/egress issues would have to be solved. But it would be (much, much) cheaper to put an 8,000 seat facility *inside* the Dome than build one from scratch. Yes, the track might be lost, but most of the other uses of the Dome could still be had. And it would be on campus; in the perfect location; with practice courts and dressing rooms; parking in place; etc., etc. I'm not necessarily advocating this direction, but it should sure be looked at long before a decision is made. My memory is Sander kinda liked the idea before the (much) cheaper option of Freedom Hall was settled on. But don't quote me on that.
But really, as BucDoctor put it, it's just not time. There are too many other, more immediate needs. And it ain't gonna happen until Freedom Hall just becomes unworkable. It's FAR from that now. It's FAR from perfect - but it works. [By the way, there *used* to be a practice court in there, on the other side from the cafeteria. Don't know if that's been repurposed or not, but it was there. Not as nice as the ones in the Dome. Just sayin'.
Furthermore...................it's ridiculous to plan, or even think about such a venture until we've got more progress on a TRACK and an real TENNIS FACILITY - as promised 20 years ago. We desperately need an indoor tennis place. We desperately need a track. That's the most embarrassing thing about ETSU athletics right now - imo. I know some of you will disagree, but that's the way I see it.
To be clear, I'm not against a new arena. But it's just too early; even too early to plan. First things first. Both athletically *and* academically.
Anybody have a rendering of what the Dome may have looked like by building a stadium within a stadium?
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - brock20 - 01-24-2018 09:48 AM
(01-23-2018 11:57 PM)brock20 Wrote: http://jmuconvo.com
JMU is building a new arena without the need for a 40 million dollar single donation. The facility is going to cost 88 million and they had to raise 12 million in private funds to get the project approved. 2.25 million of that came from naming rights that they just sold
http://www.dnronline.com/update/jmu-announces-union-bank-trust-center-to-replace-convo/article_66205158-b045-11e7-90e6-2b7382fed9db.html
Also, JMU announced almost 3 years ago their plan and began fundraising which they say is now complete. They hope to have the facility done by 2020. So 5 years from plan to completion. That should be ETSU's goal as well.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - posterformerlyknownasthedoctor - 01-24-2018 11:19 AM
(01-24-2018 09:22 AM)squeak Wrote: Anybody have a rendering of what the Dome may have looked like by building a stadium within a stadium?
To my knowledge, one was never released to the public. I suspect one was not authentically produced. I do remember it was seriously discussed. I *think* an architect and/or engineers were at least consulted - but I'm not even positive about that.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - posterformerlyknownasthedoctor - 01-24-2018 11:29 AM
(01-23-2018 08:08 PM)brock20 Wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_basketball_arenas
There are 11 division 1 programs in Tennessee. They all have arenas that seat at least 9k except us, UT Martin (a school of 6k students), Lipscomb (small private) and Belmont (small private). An arena of 8k is not unrealistic and is warranted.
And we have an *on-campus* 12,000+ seat arena. I know, I know.....just sayin'. I'm not opposed to a new arena, but my sense is that the tree you're trying to climb is just the wrong one at this time.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - brock20 - 01-24-2018 11:32 AM
https://www.jmu.edu/news/campus-construction/index.shtml - In case someone thinks ETSU can only do so much construction at once
Compare this thread from the JMU board http://csnbbs.com/thread-735870.html to ours. I don't know why we are ok we just "getting by".
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - brock20 - 01-24-2018 11:43 AM
(01-24-2018 11:29 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:(01-23-2018 08:08 PM)brock20 Wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_basketball_arenas
There are 11 division 1 programs in Tennessee. They all have arenas that seat at least 9k except us, UT Martin (a school of 6k students), Lipscomb (small private) and Belmont (small private). An arena of 8k is not unrealistic and is warranted.
And we have an *on-campus* 12,000+ seat arena. I know, I know.....just sayin'. I'm not opposed to a new arena, but my sense is that the tree you're trying to climb is just the wrong one at this time.
It's not 12k anymore, at least according to the state. If they ever build a new arena they should tear the dome down and build it there just so no one has to hear about not using it anymore (it's not just you, it gets brought up a lot).
When is the right time to plan one? Is it in 5-10 years when Noland has left to maybe go into politics and we get another Stanton type president?
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - ETSUfan#2 - 01-24-2018 12:19 PM
(01-23-2018 11:35 PM)Buc76 Wrote: My point is simply those schools have tons of empty seats. Bigger arenas don't assure bigger crowds.
As I have stated, THE ONLY WAY FOR ETSU TO GET AN ON CAMPUS, 8000 SEAT ARENA, IS FOR A DONOR TO PONY UP 35-50MIL LIKE JERRY RICHARDSON DID FOR WOFFORD.
THERE ARE NO OTHER RESOURCES AVAILABLE FOR SUCH A LARGE PROJECT.
With the weak exception of Austin Peay, none of the other schools you've mentioned have really done much though. Wofford has a new arena, which according to wikipedia can't sit more then 4K, smaller then Freedom Hall. One thing of note though, while they did nothing before, Wofford is coming off of two seperate back to back runs in the NCAA(2010, 2011, 2014 and 2015). For a team with no prior success, it's not surprising someone might have been willing to drop some cash if the team suddenly looked relevant on a consistent basis.
Despite the success Steve Forbes has been having, we've not done anything too outstanding yet. Going forward, say the wins keep on coming and we get another trip or two to the NCAA and/or NIT, dare I say maybe even the odd upset win, who knows, maybe someone might decide to open their wallet a bit.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - BucPerson - 01-24-2018 12:39 PM
Bobby and Kenny said it best this morning. When 7000 start showing up for every game and scalpers are doing there thing then we can seriously consider building a new stadium. Something tells me though this administration has looked at this but timing, fundiing and politics aren’t right.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - brock20 - 01-24-2018 12:42 PM
(01-24-2018 12:39 PM)BucPerson Wrote: Bobby and Kenny said it best this morning. When 7000 start showing up for every game and scalpers are doing there thing then we can seriously consider building a new stadium. Something tells me though this administration has looked at this but timing, fundiing and politics aren’t right.
Why do 7000 need to show up consistently for ETSU but other schools build new arenas averaging 2k-3k? Why is ETSU different?
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - BucPerson - 01-24-2018 12:43 PM
(01-24-2018 12:42 PM)brock20 Wrote:(01-24-2018 12:39 PM)BucPerson Wrote: Bobby and Kenny said it best this morning. When 7000 start showing up for every game and scalpers are doing there thing then we can seriously consider building a new stadium. Something tells me though this administration has looked at this but timing, fundiing and politics aren’t right.
Why do 7000 need to show up consistently for ETSU but other schools build new arenas averaging 2k-3k? Why is ETSU different?
You’ll have to adk Kenny or Bobby.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - posterformerlyknownasthedoctor - 01-24-2018 12:53 PM
(01-24-2018 11:43 AM)brock20 Wrote:(01-24-2018 11:29 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:(01-23-2018 08:08 PM)brock20 Wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_basketball_arenas
There are 11 division 1 programs in Tennessee. They all have arenas that seat at least 9k except us, UT Martin (a school of 6k students), Lipscomb (small private) and Belmont (small private). An arena of 8k is not unrealistic and is warranted.
And we have an *on-campus* 12,000+ seat arena. I know, I know.....just sayin'. I'm not opposed to a new arena, but my sense is that the tree you're trying to climb is just the wrong one at this time.
It's not 12k anymore, at least according to the state. If they ever build a new arena they should tear the dome down and build it there just so no one has to hear about not using it anymore (it's not just you, it gets brought up a lot).
When is the right time to plan one? Is it in 5-10 years when Noland has left to maybe go into politics and we get another Stanton type president?
No, we know it's not 12,000 as currently configured. More doors have to be added. That's not easy, but not close to impossible. That was the fire marshall's objection after the (ludicrous) Ludacris concert.
The Dome's going to be there awhile, with the new roof. Yes, I'm one of those who thought the Dome was great - but I did not object to the move to Freedom Hall, either. Both were/are fine facilities for a game - with each having their own "issues". Curiously, although I'm a strong idealist in most all things, in this I'm not. I don't think we need something like JMU's getting - unless somebody(ies) just really wants to plunk down that kind of change. Again......I'm not against a new arena - it's just that we've got other things to do first.
And we don't know when Noland's leaving. It could be this year, or not for 5-10 years. But we can't plan around that particular contingency. Further, I think the Noland culture will last. We won't be going back to the stanton model/method. That's gone. At least I firmly believe that.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - posterformerlyknownasthedoctor - 01-24-2018 12:56 PM
(01-24-2018 12:39 PM)BucPerson Wrote: Bobby and Kenny said it best this morning. When 7000 start showing up for every game and scalpers are doing there thing then we can seriously consider building a new stadium. Something tells me though this administration has looked at this but timing, fundiing and politics aren’t right.
Exactly. That's it in a nutshell. Oh, it might overstate things just a tad for effect, but that's the kind of scenario for a new arena to be built *in the near term*. And *that* scenario is going to be very rare while we're in the SoCon. Maybe not pleasant to hear, but realistic.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - etsuBucsFan1988 - 01-24-2018 01:27 PM
(01-24-2018 12:39 PM)BucPerson Wrote: Bobby and Kenny said it best this morning. When 7000 start showing up for every game and scalpers are doing there thing then we can seriously consider building a new stadium. Something tells me though this administration has looked at this but timing, fundiing and politics aren’t right.
Thank you.
Even if that were to happen, then you still don't build a new place. Upgrades yes, a new place no. You make it the hottest ticket in town. You buy your season tickets early, students camp to get their ticket, if single-game tickets are available then you better get them as soon as they are available, etc. You snooze you lose. And if you don't have a ticket, then you buy one off the street at the scalper value. If not then you stay at home and watch it however it is being broadcasted.
The only way I would be for a new arena is if we were seriously considering a conference upgrade (A10, AAC, etc). But I am not expecting that anytime soon, if ever.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - prosec34 - 01-24-2018 01:27 PM
I may be a big Buc fan, but I'm also a taxpayer. I do not feel that many millions of tax dollars (or student fees, etc) need to go to something that is totally unnecessary.
We have a good place to play basketball. There's empty seats for anyone wanting to come. End of story.
Why do other schools have bigger places? I don't know why they waste their money. Why does California have a 10% state income tax? Because they waste money.
RE: Let's Talk New Arena - ETSUfan#2 - 01-24-2018 01:43 PM
(01-24-2018 01:27 PM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:(01-24-2018 12:39 PM)BucPerson Wrote: Bobby and Kenny said it best this morning. When 7000 start showing up for every game and scalpers are doing there thing then we can seriously consider building a new stadium. Something tells me though this administration has looked at this but timing, fundiing and politics aren’t right.
Thank you.
Even if that were to happen, then you still don't build a new place. Upgrades yes, a new place no. You make it the hottest ticket in town. You buy your season tickets early, students camp to get their ticket, if single-game tickets are available then you better get them as soon as they are available, etc. You snooze you lose. And if you don't have a ticket, then you buy one off the street at the scalper value. If not then you stay at home and watch it however it is being broadcasted.
The only way I would be for a new arena is if we were seriously considering a conference upgrade (A10, AAC, etc). But I am not expecting that anytime soon, if ever.
It's doable, but would require some not insignificant events. For AAC, the football program would have to move to FBS level. Possible but not something I see for a few years.
For the A10 or another conference that wouldn't require moving football to FBS level, I think it would require simply a lot more success on the bball court. And by that I mean not only make the NCAA several times in a row or in a close period, but actually be able to win a game or two.