(10-25-2015 03:08 PM)Ranger Wrote:  It is almost axiomatic that there is a massive divide, a polarization, among posters on the board concerning Rice football and Bailiff. I believe most if not all of us want the same thing - we just differ on how to get there.

What some of us fear is that Rice football is slowly receding into irrevelance and that there is little time left to fix it.

I have read on this site, for instance, that football is irrelevant to the lives of most Rice students. From what I have read, the athletic department has tried various stratagems to increase student interest, but with little success. If I am remembering correctly, one poster explained that a large portion of the current crop of students comes from geographical regions and overseas where football is not cherished. This could well be a legitimate reason for a lack of student interest, but it is not an excuse.

I stayed up to watch the Stanford UW game yesterday. Perhaps the TV cherry picked shots, but it seemed as if there was a fairly large, enthusiastic student section. And the Rice student body is pretty much the same as the Stanford student body in smarts and geographical origin. So why is Stanford, for instance, (and probably if I researched I could list other academically oriented schools) so enthusiastic about football. This is a school which we may have been able to trounce in the several years before Harbaugh arrived, which I guess was 10 or so years ago. I believe the Cardinal was 1-11 the year before Harbaugh arrived.

These are some things to think about. Why is the football team supported at other academic universities while possibly not at Rice. I have my ideas. But the point is that viewed over the span of 50 years, Rice football has slipped further and further to irrelevance, not only to the student body but also to the national scene.

I suspect that the big changes on the national college football scene will further exacerbate matters, with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. I am not always an advocate for changing the status quo. When you change the status quo, things may go down rather than up. But at this point, the upside is far more extensive than the downside, and I think we have to try. There are obstacles to change. We have heard them ad infinitum. But this is Rice University, which has a talented group of students, friends, and alums. If we cannot overcome obstacles, well.........

(10-25-2015 03:08 PM)Ranger Wrote:  It is almost axiomatic that there is a massive divide, a polarization, among posters on the board concerning Rice football and Bailiff. I believe most if not all of us want the same thing - we just differ on how to get there.

What some of us fear is that Rice football is slowly receding into irrevelance and that there is little time left to fix it.

I have read on this site, for instance, that football is irrelevant to the lives of most Rice students. From what I have read, the athletic department has tried various stratagems to increase student interest, but with little success. If I am remembering correctly, one poster explained that a large portion of the current crop of students comes from geographical regions and overseas where football is not cherished. This could well be a legitimate reason for a lack of student interest, but it is not an excuse.
...

These are some things to think about. Why is the football team supported at other academic universities while possibly not at Rice. I have my ideas. But the point is that viewed over the span of 50 years, Rice football has slipped further and further to irrelevance, not only to the student body but also to the national scene.
...

But at this point, the upside is far more extensive than the downside, and I think we have to try. There are obstacles to change. We have heard them ad infinitum. But this is Rice University, which has a talented group of students, friends, and alums. If we cannot overcome obstacles, well.........

(10-25-2015 03:39 PM)Ranger Wrote:  Having spent two years in the MBA program there, I am well aware of the differences. But I do not think they are the total reason for the difference in enthusiasm. If the students are not interested, the citizens of Houston are not interested, and probably most of the alumni is not interested, why continue. If we want to continue, we should do something to stimulate the interest. Producing a brand of football that elicits the dismal in game comments (many from DB supporters) is not going to get anyone excited, except maybe for some of the parents.

(10-25-2015 03:08 PM)Ranger Wrote:  What some of us fear is that Rice football is slowly receding into irrevelance and that there is little time left to fix it.

(10-25-2015 03:39 PM)Ranger Wrote:  Having spent two years in the MBA program there, I am well aware of the differences. But I do not think they are the total reason for the difference in enthusiasm. If the students are not interested, the citizens of Houston are not interested, and probably most of the alumni is not interested, why continue. If we want to continue, we should do something to stimulate the interest. Producing a brand of football that elicits the dismal in game comments (many from DB supporters) is not going to get anyone excited, except maybe for some of the parents.

(10-25-2015 04:48 PM)NolaOwl Wrote:  Our current AD is extremely knowledgeable about Stanford's athletic program. I would think that he would know what is worth emulating and will advocate change to the Board. One thing may be to create a scholarship endowment which would remove the cost of tuition for athletes from the annual University budget. This, along with whatever else he does, will cost money. Given the apathy discussed above and the toleration of mediocrity, do we have the will and desire to fund such changes? My 42 years of following the fortunes of our teams tells me no.

(10-25-2015 04:48 PM)NolaOwl Wrote:  Our current AD is extremely knowledgeable about Stanford's athletic program. I would think that he would know what is worth emulating and will advocate change to the Board. One thing may be to create a scholarship endowment which would remove the cost of tuition for athletes from the annual University budget. This, along with whatever else he does, will cost money. Given the apathy discussed above and the toleration of mediocrity, do we have the will and desire to fund such changes? My 42 years of following the fortunes of our teams tells me no.

(10-25-2015 03:08 PM)Ranger Wrote:  These are some things to think about. Why is the football team supported at other academic universities while possibly not at Rice. I have my ideas. But the point is that viewed over the span of 50 years, Rice football has slipped further and further to irrelevance, not only to the student body but also to the national scene.

(10-25-2015 03:08 PM)Ranger Wrote:  What some of us fear is that Rice football is slowly receding into irrelevance and that there is little time left to fix it.

(10-25-2015 08:28 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 03:08 PM)Ranger Wrote:  What some of us fear is that Rice football is slowly receding into irrelevance and that there is little time left to fix it.

FIFY

Out of all the schools in the country, we are the only one in a conference completely devoid of any peer institutions. There will be a price to be paid for this - we already seem to be paying it, actually, given the downward trend of our rankings over the past decade-plus. And I don't think we're anywhere near the floor.

Rice is already sailing into a significant headwind in trying to stay in the top 20 without a med school or law school. And now, the vanishing linkages of our brand in the public consciousness with peer schools, plus every linkage of our brand with Middle Western International Dominion Tech State, are combining for death by a thousand cuts.

A school like ours is expected - by the public, by its students, alumni, would-be applicants, etc. - to strive for excellence in all areas and engage in genuine competition with its peers. However, in the one arena most visible to all these groups, Rice isn't doing that.

I just don't think it is possible to make Rice people - or people who might be disposed to care about Rice, like potential new fans in Houston, smart HS kids, etc. - care about competing in C-USA. Why would they? Why should they?

At best, Rice is essentially telling its supporters and potential supporters to eat this spinach for X years in the hope that things will get better someday for some future generation. Not exactly an inspiring marketing pitch. I don't blame today's Rice kids for not caring, in the main, about attending C-USA games, and I don't blame any kid today considering Rice who ultimately decides to go to Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Army/Navy/Air Force, an Ivy, or any other school where part of one's college experience can be participating, directly or vicariously, in athletic competition with one's peers. And as more and more decisions get made in this vein, the negative results will redound to Rice.

Increasing irrelevance for Rice athletics will lead to increasing irrelevance for Rice.

(10-25-2015 09:44 PM)KTOWL Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 08:28 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 03:08 PM)Ranger Wrote:  What some of us fear is that Rice football is slowly receding into irrelevance and that there is little time left to fix it.

FIFY

Out of all the schools in the country, we are the only one in a conference completely devoid of any peer institutions. There will be a price to be paid for this - we already seem to be paying it, actually, given the downward trend of our rankings over the past decade-plus. And I don't think we're anywhere near the floor.

Rice is already sailing into a significant headwind in trying to stay in the top 20 without a med school or law school. And now, the vanishing linkages of our brand in the public consciousness with peer schools, plus every linkage of our brand with Middle Western International Dominion Tech State, are combining for death by a thousand cuts.

A school like ours is expected - by the public, by its students, alumni, would-be applicants, etc. - to strive for excellence in all areas and engage in genuine competition with its peers. However, in the one arena most visible to all these groups, Rice isn't doing that.

I just don't think it is possible to make Rice people - or people who might be disposed to care about Rice, like potential new fans in Houston, smart HS kids, etc. - care about competing in C-USA. Why would they? Why should they?

At best, Rice is essentially telling its supporters and potential supporters to eat this spinach for X years in the hope that things will get better someday for some future generation. Not exactly an inspiring marketing pitch. I don't blame today's Rice kids for not caring, in the main, about attending C-USA games, and I don't blame any kid today considering Rice who ultimately decides to go to Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Army/Navy/Air Force, an Ivy, or any other school where part of one's college experience can be participating, directly or vicariously, in athletic competition with one's peers. And as more and more decisions get made in this vein, the negative results will redound to Rice.

Increasing irrelevance for Rice athletics will lead to increasing irrelevance for Rice.

Agree. we have seen kids decommit in the last few years. Rice is becoming the offer that helps you get more offers. We are not relevant even in our hometown. Yesterday's local news covered UH first then UT, A&M, Tech, Baylor finally they mentioned Rice and TSU.

(10-25-2015 08:28 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 03:08 PM)Ranger Wrote:  What some of us fear is that Rice football is slowly receding into irrelevance and that there is little time left to fix it.

FIFY

Out of all the schools in the country, we are the only one in a conference completely devoid of any peer institutions. There will be a price to be paid for this - we already seem to be paying it, actually, given the downward trend of our rankings over the past decade-plus. And I don't think we're anywhere near the floor.

Rice is already sailing into a significant headwind in trying to stay in the top 20 without a med school or law school. And now, the vanishing linkages of our brand in the public consciousness with peer schools, plus every linkage of our brand with Middle Western International Dominion Tech State, are combining for death by a thousand cuts.

A school like ours is expected - by the public, by its students, alumni, would-be applicants, etc. - to strive for excellence in all areas and engage in genuine competition with its peers. However, in the one arena most visible to all these groups, Rice isn't doing that.

I just don't think it is possible to make Rice people - or people who might be disposed to care about Rice, like potential new fans in Houston, smart HS kids, etc. - care about competing in C-USA. Why would they? Why should they?

At best, Rice is essentially telling its supporters and potential supporters to eat this spinach for X years in the hope that things will get better someday for some future generation. Not exactly an inspiring marketing pitch. I don't blame today's Rice kids for not caring, in the main, about attending C-USA games, and I don't blame any kid today considering Rice who ultimately decides to go to Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Army/Navy/Air Force, an Ivy, or any other school where part of one's college experience can be participating, directly or vicariously, in athletic competition with one's peers. And as more and more decisions get made in this vein, the negative results will redound to Rice.

Increasing irrelevance for Rice athletics will lead to increasing irrelevance for Rice.

(10-25-2015 10:13 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  Rice is already sailing into a significant headwind in trying to stay in the top 20 without a med school or law school. And now, the vanishing linkages of our brand in the public consciousness with peer schools, plus every linkage of our brand with Middle Western International Dominion Tech State, are combining for death by a thousand cuts.

A school like ours is expected - by the public, by its students, alumni, would-be applicants, etc. - to strive for excellence in all areas and engage in genuine competition with its peers. However, in the one arena most visible to all these groups, Rice isn't doing that.

I just don't think it is possible to make Rice people - or people who might be disposed to care about Rice, like potential new fans in Houston, smart HS kids, etc. - care about competing in C-USA. Why would they? Why should they?

(10-25-2015 10:36 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 10:13 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  Rice is already sailing into a significant headwind in trying to stay in the top 20 without a med school or law school. And now, the vanishing linkages of our brand in the public consciousness with peer schools, plus every linkage of our brand with Middle Western International Dominion Tech State, are combining for death by a thousand cuts.

A school like ours is expected - by the public, by its students, alumni, would-be applicants, etc. - to strive for excellence in all areas and engage in genuine competition with its peers. However, in the one arena most visible to all these groups, Rice isn't doing that.

I just don't think it is possible to make Rice people - or people who might be disposed to care about Rice, like potential new fans in Houston, smart HS kids, etc. - care about competing in C-USA. Why would they? Why should they?

Excellent points.

At this point, it really does feel like playing in C-USA and muddling along in football is actually detrimental to the University. We may be able to escape the brand linkage if we were good enough to dominate C-USA, but given our history, that isn't something we seem likely to do.

Combined with brand destruction at the hands of no peer schools and dwindling fan interest among students and young alums, it really feels like Rice is going to end up in Division III. As much as I would hate that, it might be better for the university in the long run if we plan on continuing what we are doing now and patting ourselves on the back for winning bowl games that no one gives a **** about.

(10-25-2015 10:57 PM)owl95 Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 10:36 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 10:13 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  Rice is already sailing into a significant headwind in trying to stay in the top 20 without a med school or law school. And now, the vanishing linkages of our brand in the public consciousness with peer schools, plus every linkage of our brand with Middle Western International Dominion Tech State, are combining for death by a thousand cuts.

A school like ours is expected - by the public, by its students, alumni, would-be applicants, etc. - to strive for excellence in all areas and engage in genuine competition with its peers. However, in the one arena most visible to all these groups, Rice isn't doing that.

I just don't think it is possible to make Rice people - or people who might be disposed to care about Rice, like potential new fans in Houston, smart HS kids, etc. - care about competing in C-USA. Why would they? Why should they?

Excellent points.

At this point, it really does feel like playing in C-USA and muddling along in football is actually detrimental to the University. We may be able to escape the brand linkage if we were good enough to dominate C-USA, but given our history, that isn't something we seem likely to do.

Combined with brand destruction at the hands of no peer schools and dwindling fan interest among students and young alums, it really feels like Rice is going to end up in Division III. As much as I would hate that, it might be better for the university in the long run if we plan on continuing what we are doing now and patting ourselves on the back for winning bowl games that no one gives a **** about.

I think no sports or DIII sports is even worse for our university. Let's face it, we're bad at reaching out to alumni, we're bad at marketing the University in general and we have no major plans to expand our national profile to make ourselves relevant as a school. At least being good at D1 athletics(and this is why I think people are putting so much hope in MBB) is a way to get our name out there. Without that, Rice University hasn't had a non-athletic "signature win" in a really long time too.

(10-25-2015 10:57 PM)owl95 Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 10:36 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 10:13 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  Rice is already sailing into a significant headwind in trying to stay in the top 20 without a med school or law school. And now, the vanishing linkages of our brand in the public consciousness with peer schools, plus every linkage of our brand with Middle Western International Dominion Tech State, are combining for death by a thousand cuts.

A school like ours is expected - by the public, by its students, alumni, would-be applicants, etc. - to strive for excellence in all areas and engage in genuine competition with its peers. However, in the one arena most visible to all these groups, Rice isn't doing that.

I just don't think it is possible to make Rice people - or people who might be disposed to care about Rice, like potential new fans in Houston, smart HS kids, etc. - care about competing in C-USA. Why would they? Why should they?

Excellent points.

At this point, it really does feel like playing in C-USA and muddling along in football is actually detrimental to the University. We may be able to escape the brand linkage if we were good enough to dominate C-USA, but given our history, that isn't something we seem likely to do.

Combined with brand destruction at the hands of no peer schools and dwindling fan interest among students and young alums, it really feels like Rice is going to end up in Division III. As much as I would hate that, it might be better for the university in the long run if we plan on continuing what we are doing now and patting ourselves on the back for winning bowl games that no one gives a **** about.

I think no sports or DIII sports is even worse for our university. Let's face it, we're bad at reaching out to alumni, we're bad at marketing the University in general and we have no major plans to expand our national profile to make ourselves relevant as a school. At least being good at D1 athletics(and this is why I think people are putting so much hope in MBB) is a way to get our name out there. Without that, Rice University hasn't had a non-athletic "signature win" in a really long time too.

(10-25-2015 11:02 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 10:57 PM)owl95 Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 10:36 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 10:13 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  Rice is already sailing into a significant headwind in trying to stay in the top 20 without a med school or law school. And now, the vanishing linkages of our brand in the public consciousness with peer schools, plus every linkage of our brand with Middle Western International Dominion Tech State, are combining for death by a thousand cuts.

A school like ours is expected - by the public, by its students, alumni, would-be applicants, etc. - to strive for excellence in all areas and engage in genuine competition with its peers. However, in the one arena most visible to all these groups, Rice isn't doing that.

I just don't think it is possible to make Rice people - or people who might be disposed to care about Rice, like potential new fans in Houston, smart HS kids, etc. - care about competing in C-USA. Why would they? Why should they?

Excellent points.

At this point, it really does feel like playing in C-USA and muddling along in football is actually detrimental to the University. We may be able to escape the brand linkage if we were good enough to dominate C-USA, but given our history, that isn't something we seem likely to do.

Combined with brand destruction at the hands of no peer schools and dwindling fan interest among students and young alums, it really feels like Rice is going to end up in Division III. As much as I would hate that, it might be better for the university in the long run if we plan on continuing what we are doing now and patting ourselves on the back for winning bowl games that no one gives a **** about.

I think no sports or DIII sports is even worse for our university. Let's face it, we're bad at reaching out to alumni, we're bad at marketing the University in general and we have no major plans to expand our national profile to make ourselves relevant as a school. At least being good at D1 athletics(and this is why I think people are putting so much hope in MBB) is a way to get our name out there. Without that, Rice University hasn't had a non-athletic "signature win" in a really long time too.

It depends what you call a non-athletic signature win. Certainly it was a coupe for the School of Social Sciences and our Econ department to land the prominent, national reknown Economist from UPenn last year, and he has followed it up with several elite-level hires. The net result is that our Econ department will likely be Top 25 ranked in a few short years.