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Cooley Law School - BaldingBroncoFan - 08-17-2015 10:32 AM

Noteworthy only because it is now affiliated with WMU.
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2015/08/16/cooley-suffers-amid-nationwide-law-school-decline/31830221/


RE: Cooley Law School - GullLake - 08-17-2015 10:50 AM

(08-17-2015 10:32 AM)BaldingBroncoFan Wrote:  Noteworthy only because it is now affiliated with WMU.
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2015/08/16/cooley-suffers-amid-nationwide-law-school-decline/31830221/

That, and the med school, are big mistakes for WMU. Michigan already had/has enough law and med schools (not even enough residencies in Michigan to accommodate all the med students). We're good enough with what we already do and the $ and resources put into the law/med schools would be better spent improving and growing established programs at WMU.


RE: Cooley Law School - Hiller4Hyz09 - 08-17-2015 11:13 AM

WMED is elite.


RE: Cooley Law School - broncofan1 - 08-17-2015 11:39 AM

(08-17-2015 10:50 AM)GullLake Wrote:  
(08-17-2015 10:32 AM)BaldingBroncoFan Wrote:  Noteworthy only because it is now affiliated with WMU.
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2015/08/16/cooley-suffers-amid-nationwide-law-school-decline/31830221/

That, and the med school, are big mistakes for WMU. Michigan already had/has enough law and med schools (not even enough residencies in Michigan to accommodate all the med students). We're good enough with what we already do and the $ and resources put into the law/med schools would be better spent improving and growing established programs at WMU.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Please share what resources should have been used elsewhere, and how that would increase the national and international appeal of WMU.


RE: Cooley Law School - GullLake - 08-17-2015 12:22 PM

(08-17-2015 11:39 AM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(08-17-2015 10:50 AM)GullLake Wrote:  
(08-17-2015 10:32 AM)BaldingBroncoFan Wrote:  Noteworthy only because it is now affiliated with WMU.
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2015/08/16/cooley-suffers-amid-nationwide-law-school-decline/31830221/

That, and the med school, are big mistakes for WMU. Michigan already had/has enough law and med schools (not even enough residencies in Michigan to accommodate all the med students). We're good enough with what we already do and the $ and resources put into the law/med schools would be better spent improving and growing established programs at WMU.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Please share what resources should have been used elsewhere, and how that would increase the national and international appeal of WMU.

Thank you for your reply. I respect your opinion, but you need to look at who WMU exists to serve, not who exists to serve WMU.

Why does WMU even exist? What is it's mission? It is a public school in the State of Michigan supported primarily by tax dollars. What is it doing to serve the needs of the State of Michigan?

Adding law/med schools does NOTHING to serve the needs of the State of Michigan because those needs are already being served, quite well, by existing institutions and there is not a growing demand. As mentioned in my earlier post, there are not enough residencies in the entire State of Michigan to serve the new med students at WMU/CMU and OU, let alone UM, MSU and WSU. The majority of uur med school grads (and CMU's and OU's) will likely have to move out of State.

Why allow WMU to become another "Me Too!" university, offering weak alternatives to already established, and strong programs at other Universities. Why not put those resources into established programs (aviation, education, business, engineering, etc, etc.) or look into other opportunities for creative leadership to meet Michigan's growing needs.

As far as national and international appeal...I could not care less. Bottom-line, is WMU meeting the needs of the people of the State of Michigan who's tax dollars support it? In the case of the law/med schools, the answer is absolutely not.

I think the same of CMU's and OU's irresponsible med school efforts. Michigan does not need them.


RE: Cooley Law School - MajorHoople - 08-17-2015 12:39 PM

As much as I hate to admit it, GL has a point.


RE: Cooley Law School - GullLake - 08-17-2015 12:45 PM

(08-17-2015 12:39 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  As much as I hate to admit it, GL has a point.

Thank you, MH.

WMU can't be all things to all people. Do what we do extremely well and do not accept mediocrity. The Cooley venture is not even accepting mediocrity as the Lansing State Journal link points-out.


RE: Cooley Law School - rtletterman - 08-17-2015 01:38 PM

(08-17-2015 12:45 PM)GullLake Wrote:  
(08-17-2015 12:39 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  As much as I hate to admit it, GL has a point.

Thank you, MH.

WMU can't be all things to all people. Do what we do extremely well and do not accept mediocrity. The Cooley venture is not even accepting mediocrity as the Lansing State Journal link points-out.

You two boys now?


RE: Cooley Law School - Charm City Bronco - 08-17-2015 01:45 PM

Cooley was terrible idea from the beginning. Who green lighted this?


RE: Cooley Law School - okgc - 08-17-2015 02:04 PM

FWIW
The WMU med school is Privately funded and not accepting any state funding.

Also there is a shortage of GP type physicians in Michigan and that is the WMU med school focus.


RE: Cooley Law School - rtletterman - 08-17-2015 02:33 PM

O K G C!!!!!!!


RE: Cooley Law School - GullLake - 08-17-2015 02:42 PM

(08-17-2015 02:04 PM)okgc Wrote:  FWIW
The WMU med school is Privately funded and not accepting any state funding.

Also there is a shortage of GP type physicians in Michigan and that is the WMU med school focus.

okgc -

Good point!

Yes, there is a shortage of GP type physicians in Michigan. However, adding three new med schools, unfortunately, does not address the problem. UM, MSU and WSU graduate more than enough to fill those positions, but their graduates still move out-of-state. What would make WMU, OU and CMU different? Nothing.

The problem is there are not enough residency programs in Michigan to accommodate the med school students. Doctors tend to stay in the region of their residency.

Address the residency issue and you start getting a handle on the physician shortage. The creation of three med schools, however, does not.


RE: Cooley Law School - rtletterman - 08-17-2015 03:02 PM

Is it always a requirement that there is a local in state market for a field of study?


RE: Cooley Law School - Bronco68 - 08-17-2015 03:58 PM

If you go back many years when the med school was announced, studies showed that over the next 20 years the current med schools could not meet the demand and shortage and where not planning to expand enrollment. This left the door open for others to fill the need. The MSU Kalamazoo clinic (on WMU's East campus) and residency programs in Kalamazoo at Bronson and Borgess hospitals were transferred to WMU lock stock and barrel. So those issues were resolved, if any. New hospitals can offer residency programs which improves the local service capability of those facilities.

The opposite problem with the law school is a decline in demand and need. So rather than start a new law school they went the route of affiliating with an established school recognizing the need for downsizing, but via the affiliation with WMU the law school may gain traction to survive the changing condition. This is similar to MSU acquiring the old Detroit School of Law about 20 years ago and moving it to East Lansing and continuing to operate it as an independent school just as Cooley will remain independent under WMU.

In both cases no tax payer money is at risk, but region can offer medical or law school programs that can benefit not only Michigan but the US. WMU and others (especially U of M) take in out of state students, but Michigan than underwrites the cost for them and vice versus with other states.

WMU has the top paper science program in the country, but industry has left the state, do we eliminate a top program because of that? No.


RE: Cooley Law School - rtletterman - 08-17-2015 04:06 PM

(08-17-2015 03:58 PM)Bronco68 Wrote:  If you go back many years when the med school was announced, studies showed that over the next 20 years the current med schools could not meet the demand and shortage and where not planning to expand enrollment. This left the door open for others to fill the need. The MSU Kalamazoo clinic (on WMU's East campus) and residency programs in Kalamazoo at Bronson and Borgess hospitals were transferred to WMU lock stock and barrel. So those issues were resolved, if any. New hospitals can offer residency programs which improves the local service capability of those facilities.

The opposite problem with the law school is a decline in demand and need. So rather than start a new law school they went the route of affiliating with an established school recognizing the need for downsizing, but via the affiliation with WMU the law school may gain traction to survive the changing condition. This is similar to MSU acquiring the old Detroit School of Law about 20 years ago and moving it to East Lansing and continuing to operate it as an independent school just as Cooley will remain independent under WMU.

In both cases no tax payer money is at risk, but region can offer medical or law school programs that can benefit not only Michigan but the US. WMU and others (especially U of M) take in out of state students, but Michigan than underwrites the cost for them and vice versus with other states.

WMU has the top paper science program in the country, but industry has left the state, do we eliminate a top program because of that? No.

Well said. Thank you for the clarification.

I like the fact driven, agenda free slant.


RE: Cooley Law School - okgc - 08-17-2015 04:10 PM

Graduates of the WMU med school will be required to practice as a GP for a minimum length of time compared to grads from the big 3 that automatically focus on a specialty.

Yes there is a shortage of residency positions because of funding in Michigan. Now seriously do you really think for one moment there will be a lack of funding issue for WMU med school grads & residency programs?


RE: Cooley Law School - Hiller4Hyz09 - 08-17-2015 04:29 PM

I like how the WMED Family Medicine Residency program resides at Family Health Center in Kalamazoo. That means 24 BRIGHT physicians are seeing typically underserved patients day-in, day-out.

Physicians tend to take jobs in their home region, but some do stay near where their residency was. Lucky for Kalamazoo, 2 WMED residents stayed on at FHC after their residency this summer.


RE: Cooley Law School - Bronco'14 - 08-17-2015 05:08 PM

(08-17-2015 03:58 PM)Bronco68 Wrote:  If you go back many years when the med school was announced, studies showed that over the next 20 years the current med schools could not meet the demand and shortage and where not planning to expand enrollment. This left the door open for others to fill the need. The MSU Kalamazoo clinic (on WMU's East campus) and residency programs in Kalamazoo at Bronson and Borgess hospitals were transferred to WMU lock stock and barrel. So those issues were resolved, if any. New hospitals can offer residency programs which improves the local service capability of those facilities.

The opposite problem with the law school is a decline in demand and need. So rather than start a new law school they went the route of affiliating with an established school recognizing the need for downsizing, but via the affiliation with WMU the law school may gain traction to survive the changing condition. This is similar to MSU acquiring the old Detroit School of Law about 20 years ago and moving it to East Lansing and continuing to operate it as an independent school just as Cooley will remain independent under WMU.

In both cases no tax payer money is at risk, but region can offer medical or law school programs that can benefit not only Michigan but the US. WMU and others (especially U of M) take in out of state students, but Michigan than underwrites the cost for them and vice versus with other states.

WMU has the top paper science program in the country, but industry has left the state, do we eliminate a top program because of that? No.

Great post!

What upsets many people about the Law School though is the Cooley name. Hopefully that improves.

------

I do feel that a lot of this money should've gone towards existing programs/needs at WMU but the med school was a donation and I'm not sure, but I think Cooley is still financially separate from WMU.
-------
What do y'all think of Cooley's president's comments regarding Cooley's target students and predicted stealing of its students by other law schools as their standards go down?


RE: Cooley Law School - Chipdip2 - 08-17-2015 05:37 PM

(08-17-2015 12:45 PM)GullLake Wrote:  
(08-17-2015 12:39 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  As much as I hate to admit it, GL has a point.

Thank you, MH.

WMU can't be all things to all people. Do what we do extremely well and do not accept mediocrity. The Cooley venture is not even accepting mediocrity as the Lansing State Journal link points-out.

The med school is EXTREMELY well financed. It has a unique method of training and focus. Docs, particularly General practitioners, are retiring in droves. Lawyers on the other hand are a dime a dozen, often have to create problems that they then have to fix. One of the most pointless professions there is.

Cooley wa a crap school even in its prime, and it's way past that. The med school will grow and do well, the affiliation with Cooley is pointless.


RE: Cooley Law School - GullLake - 08-18-2015 07:58 AM

(08-17-2015 05:37 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  
(08-17-2015 12:45 PM)GullLake Wrote:  
(08-17-2015 12:39 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  As much as I hate to admit it, GL has a point.

Thank you, MH.

WMU can't be all things to all people. Do what we do extremely well and do not accept mediocrity. The Cooley venture is not even accepting mediocrity as the Lansing State Journal link points-out.

The med school is EXTREMELY well financed. It has a unique method of training and focus. Docs, particularly General practitioners, are retiring in droves. Lawyers on the other hand are a dime a dozen, often have to create problems that they then have to fix. One of the most pointless professions there is.

Cooley wa a crap school even in its prime, and it's way past that. The med school will grow and do well, the affiliation with Cooley is pointless.

Great posts, nice discussion.

Here is a link to an article highlighting the problem with lack of residency programs in Michigan and how it is sending our current med school grads - and ultimately WMU's - out-of-state.

http://www.msms.org/Portals/0/Documents/MSMS/Resources/For_Practices/Michigan_Brain_Drain.pdf

Also, how much time (phone calls, meetings, reports, etc., etc.) do WMU's top administrators spend dealing with the med school? Could that "EXTREMELY" generous contribution to the med been used elsewhere to strengthen and expand an already established program on campus? Yes, state tax dollars are being used for the needless med school that simply duplicates what other State institutions already do and will do nothing to solve Michigan's physician shortage problem.

Unfortunately, WMU's, OU's and CMU's narcissistic ambitions lend credence to the argument (which I do not agree with) that Michigan's public colleges and universities should not be independent and should be under the authority of a State appointed governing board. Most states do this.

Glad we are all in general agreement regarding the law school.

Go Broncos! Beat Michigan State! 04-cheers