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+---- Thread: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te (/thread-742119.html)
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - He1nousOne - 07-15-2015 10:29 PM
I just watched Finebaum call the SEC overrated on College Football Live.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - DavidSt - 07-16-2015 02:50 AM
(07-15-2015 09:10 AM)bluesox Wrote: The best league for texas was the original big 12 but texas got greedy and ran off great programs…that greed never made sense to me considering they were already making the most $, better to keep the neighborhood up. Right now i think the best move for texas would involve rule changes, than hook up with another league. Those rule changes would result in a regional division under the banner of another league with football title crossover. For instance, a pac 20, a merger with the 27 team ACC and 3 divisions, an 18 team SEC or a large big 10.
10 regions with 8 to 10 teams would be an ideal for all involved. That be 80 to 100 schools involved. It could make a tight geographic lines.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - The Cutter of Bish - 07-16-2015 07:35 AM
(07-15-2015 09:10 AM)bluesox Wrote: The best league for texas was the original big 12 but texas got greedy and ran off great programs…
We shouldn't discount what was happening with Colorado, Nebraska, and A&M, or Texas politics for what doomed the conference.
I think a lot of folks look at the Colorado of today and discount what they were close to back then. One or two votes shy of taking a PAC invite (that it ever got to a vote should say something enough), feeling ripped off and isolated by the others for their latching onto all of those Texas programs instead of pushing the conference further west (imagine if the Big XII extended to Utah and NM?)...it's not UT's fault they left.
Nebraska isn't wildly different. The Big Ten wanted them (and Colorado), and UNL's scholarship game was not to last. Only after they tried, and failed, to keep their favored/special status did they finally come back to a Big Ten that finally wanted them. And that courtship went on for almost a century. Again, not really fair to hang that on Texas.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - billybobby777 - 07-16-2015 08:03 AM
(07-16-2015 07:35 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:"Imagine if big 12 had expanded west to Utah and NM?"--that was the original plan. BYU and UNM were talking seriously with the big 12 right after it formed in the mid 90's but I don't remember what happened? Why didn't it happen? Cheers !(07-15-2015 09:10 AM)bluesox Wrote: The best league for texas was the original big 12 but texas got greedy and ran off great programs…
We shouldn't discount what was happening with Colorado, Nebraska, and A&M, or Texas politics for what doomed the conference.
I think a lot of folks look at the Colorado of today and discount what they were close to back then. One or two votes shy of taking a PAC invite (that it ever got to a vote should say something enough), feeling ripped off and isolated by the others for their latching onto all of those Texas programs instead of pushing the conference further west (imagine if the Big XII extended to Utah and NM?)...it's not UT's fault they left.
Nebraska isn't wildly different. The Big Ten wanted them (and Colorado), and UNL's scholarship game was not to last. Only after they tried, and failed, to keep their favored/special status did they finally come back to a Big Ten that finally wanted them. And that courtship went on for almost a century. Again, not really fair to hang that on Texas.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - 10thMountain - 07-16-2015 08:51 AM
Texas politics.
As originally envisioned, the Big 8 expansion was only to include Texas A&M and UT-Austin.
BYU and UNM were leading candidates to be 11 & 12.
But once Texas politics forced BU and TTU onto the league, those two lost their place at the table.
Now the original B12 could have still invited them and gone to 14 (The B12 owns the rights to the name "Big 14") but at the time, 12 was decided to be the max.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - billybobby777 - 07-16-2015 09:30 AM
(07-16-2015 08:51 AM)10thMountain Wrote: Texas politics.
As originally envisioned, the Big 8 expansion was only to include Texas A&M and UT-Austin.
BYU and UNM were leading candidates to be 11 & 12.
But once Texas politics forced BU and TTU onto the league, those two lost their place at the table.
Now the original B12 could have still invited them and gone to 14 (The B12 owns the rights to the name "Big 14") but at the time, 12 was decided to be the max.
k. Thanks
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - bullet - 07-16-2015 10:55 AM
(07-16-2015 09:30 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:(07-16-2015 08:51 AM)10thMountain Wrote: Texas politics.
As originally envisioned, the Big 8 expansion was only to include Texas A&M and UT-Austin.
BYU and UNM were leading candidates to be 11 & 12.
But once Texas politics forced BU and TTU onto the league, those two lost their place at the table.
Now the original B12 could have still invited them and gone to 14 (The B12 owns the rights to the name "Big 14") but at the time, 12 was decided to be the max.
k. Thanks
Actually the original plan was to take all 16 from the Big 8 and SWC. There were lots of things talked about. I never seen it said BYU and UNM were ever a top priority, but they were discussed. Texas always knew they had to find a home for Texas Tech or they weren't going anywhere.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - Okielite - 07-16-2015 10:58 AM
OU to SEC??
https://gma.yahoo.com/confederate-flag-wavers-greet-president-obama-oklahoma-114509650--abc-news-topstories.html
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - The Cutter of Bish - 07-16-2015 11:07 AM
Yeah, Texas' politics are well engrained into the origin story, but I'm not certain if the inclusion of those western schools weren't a concession to keep Colorado from floating off. That Colorado still stayed at the table by turning down the PAC didn't basically eliminate the need for BYU, UNM, and Utah after Baylor and Tech "stole" the spots.
Perhaps Colorado was really the only one plugging for those guys, and that's why they weren't much to be found after, especially during the replacement phase. If the Oklahoma emails reflected anything, UNM and BYU weren't high on their list. The Big XII in general made it known they weren't high on their western tent-pole when it left. Who knows.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - RaiderRed - 07-16-2015 11:26 AM
(07-16-2015 09:30 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:(07-16-2015 08:51 AM)10thMountain Wrote: Texas politics.
As originally envisioned, the Big 8 expansion was only to include Texas A&M and UT-Austin.
BYU and UNM were leading candidates to be 11 & 12.
But once Texas politics forced BU and TTU onto the league, those two lost their place at the table.
Now the original B12 could have still invited them and gone to 14 (The B12 owns the rights to the name "Big 14") but at the time, 12 was decided to be the max.
k. Thanks
Not true. I have never seen BYU or New Mexico mentioned as Big 12 candidates over Tech and Baylor.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - RaiderRed - 07-16-2015 11:27 AM
(07-16-2015 10:55 AM)bullet Wrote:(07-16-2015 09:30 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:(07-16-2015 08:51 AM)10thMountain Wrote: Texas politics.
As originally envisioned, the Big 8 expansion was only to include Texas A&M and UT-Austin.
BYU and UNM were leading candidates to be 11 & 12.
But once Texas politics forced BU and TTU onto the league, those two lost their place at the table.
Now the original B12 could have still invited them and gone to 14 (The B12 owns the rights to the name "Big 14") but at the time, 12 was decided to be the max.
k. Thanks
Actually the original plan was to take all 16 from the Big 8 and SWC. There were lots of things talked about. I never seen it said BYU and UNM were ever a top priority, but they were discussed. Texas always knew they had to find a home for Texas Tech or they weren't going anywhere.
It's called a partnership. UT and Tech have been working together for a long time.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - SMUmustangs - 07-16-2015 11:27 AM
(07-09-2015 10:32 AM)bluesox Wrote: My guess would be
1) the sec would be wiling to take OU and Ok state to jump to 16
2) the big 10 would be willing to take OU and KU to jump to 16
3) the pac 12 would be willing to take Texas, Texas tech, OU and Ok state to jump to 16. I could also see the pac 12 take OU, Ok state, Ku and k state to jump to 16
4) I could see the sec be willing to jump to 18 with Texas, texas tech, OU, and Ok state, 3 pods of 6
5) I could see the pac 12 jump to 18 with texas, texas tech, OU, Ok state, Ku and K state, 3 pods of 6
I have no idea what preferences each school has for where it would go, nor what the GOR issues with the big 12 would be or how to dissolve the big 12. I've read it take 8 to dissolve but a school can't vote to dissolve if its leaving. It would seem ESPN would want texas and OU in either the sec, acc or pac 12 if it were to sell espn a stake in the pac 12. Having texas or OU in the big 10 wouldn't be good for ESPN.
(07-09-2015 10:37 AM)BigHouston Wrote: If true, things are about to get very interesting.
No way I see UT joining the SEC, and no way Texas gets rid of the LHN.. The more probable destination for the Horns is the independence route, IMHO.
I agree about Texas not joing the SEC. However, I think they might bend a little on the LHN. BUT IMO no way Texas goes Imdependent.....they would have to place their basketball, baseball and other sports in the American Atheletic Conference or some other G5. Can't see that happening
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - esayem - 07-16-2015 11:31 AM
From what I remember reading, BYU and New Mexico were considered for the 13th and 14th spots.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - Wedge - 07-16-2015 11:37 AM
(07-16-2015 10:55 AM)bullet Wrote:(07-16-2015 09:30 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:(07-16-2015 08:51 AM)10thMountain Wrote: Texas politics.
As originally envisioned, the Big 8 expansion was only to include Texas A&M and UT-Austin.
BYU and UNM were leading candidates to be 11 & 12.
But once Texas politics forced BU and TTU onto the league, those two lost their place at the table.
Now the original B12 could have still invited them and gone to 14 (The B12 owns the rights to the name "Big 14") but at the time, 12 was decided to be the max.
k. Thanks
Actually the original plan was to take all 16 from the Big 8 and SWC. There were lots of things talked about. I never seen it said BYU and UNM were ever a top priority, but they were discussed. Texas always knew they had to find a home for Texas Tech or they weren't going anywhere.
The idea to add the entire SWC to the Big 8... did anyone from the Big 8 ever take that seriously? From what I've read that started with the SWC and didn't get anywhere with the Big 8. One of the old articles about the Big 8/SWC drama told the story of the Big 8 asking a TV consultant how much money a 16-team Big 8/SWC would get from the TV networks, and how much money the Big 8 would get if they invited only UT and A&M to join, and the consultant's answer was, "The same amount."
It might be correct that the mentions of BYU and New Mexico were just spitballing, or trial balloons or whatever you want to call it, and not something that was seriously pursued at the time.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - The Cutter of Bish - 07-16-2015 11:44 AM
(07-16-2015 11:37 AM)Wedge Wrote: It might be correct that the mentions of BYU and New Mexico were just spitballing, or trial balloons or whatever you want to call it, and not something that was seriously pursued at the time.
That's why I find the history so fascinating. So many folks look at Baylor and Tech as these political concessions...who's to say UNM, BYU, Utah, and others weren't concessions as well?
I remember TCU being sort of "Kill Bill" about the Baylor inclusion, like they were going to do everything in their power to get back to "equal" status with Texas, thinking that they, and not Baylor, should have been in the original equation.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - bullet - 07-16-2015 01:15 PM
(07-16-2015 11:37 AM)Wedge Wrote:(07-16-2015 10:55 AM)bullet Wrote:(07-16-2015 09:30 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:(07-16-2015 08:51 AM)10thMountain Wrote: Texas politics.
As originally envisioned, the Big 8 expansion was only to include Texas A&M and UT-Austin.
BYU and UNM were leading candidates to be 11 & 12.
But once Texas politics forced BU and TTU onto the league, those two lost their place at the table.
Now the original B12 could have still invited them and gone to 14 (The B12 owns the rights to the name "Big 14") but at the time, 12 was decided to be the max.
k. Thanks
Actually the original plan was to take all 16 from the Big 8 and SWC. There were lots of things talked about. I never seen it said BYU and UNM were ever a top priority, but they were discussed. Texas always knew they had to find a home for Texas Tech or they weren't going anywhere.
The idea to add the entire SWC to the Big 8... did anyone from the Big 8 ever take that seriously? From what I've read that started with the SWC and didn't get anywhere with the Big 8. One of the old articles about the Big 8/SWC drama told the story of the Big 8 asking a TV consultant how much money a 16-team Big 8/SWC would get from the TV networks, and how much money the Big 8 would get if they invited only UT and A&M to join, and the consultant's answer was, "The same amount."
It might be correct that the mentions of BYU and New Mexico were just spitballing, or trial balloons or whatever you want to call it, and not something that was seriously pursued at the time.
There was an interview in the last couple of years with the KSU president at the time where he said they all got in a room and agreed to pursue the 16 team idea, but the next he heard it was going to be a Big 12.
I got the impression that the OU and UT ADs really drove the process. KSU may have been in the dark because they may have been out in some of the scenarios.
I heard the comment about the TV $ except I remember it being 12 vs. 10. They needed the ccg to pay for Baylor and Tech. At some point they probably figured out adding all 8 of the Texas schools didn't make financial sense and didn't solve the issues the SWC had.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - BaylorFerg - 07-16-2015 01:25 PM
(07-16-2015 11:37 AM)Wedge Wrote:(07-16-2015 10:55 AM)bullet Wrote:(07-16-2015 09:30 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:(07-16-2015 08:51 AM)10thMountain Wrote: Texas politics.
As originally envisioned, the Big 8 expansion was only to include Texas A&M and UT-Austin.
BYU and UNM were leading candidates to be 11 & 12.
But once Texas politics forced BU and TTU onto the league, those two lost their place at the table.
Now the original B12 could have still invited them and gone to 14 (The B12 owns the rights to the name "Big 14") but at the time, 12 was decided to be the max.
k. Thanks
Actually the original plan was to take all 16 from the Big 8 and SWC. There were lots of things talked about. I never seen it said BYU and UNM were ever a top priority, but they were discussed. Texas always knew they had to find a home for Texas Tech or they weren't going anywhere.
The idea to add the entire SWC to the Big 8... did anyone from the Big 8 ever take that seriously? From what I've read that started with the SWC and didn't get anywhere with the Big 8. One of the old articles about the Big 8/SWC drama told the story of the Big 8 asking a TV consultant how much money a 16-team Big 8/SWC would get from the TV networks, and how much money the Big 8 would get if they invited only UT and A&M to join, and the consultant's answer was, "The same amount."
It might be correct that the mentions of BYU and New Mexico were just spitballing, or trial balloons or whatever you want to call it, and not something that was seriously pursued at the time.
According to an article on the formation of the Big 12 in The Mercury newspaper in Kansas, former KSU President Jon Wefald, who was the Chair of the Big 8 from 1989-1993 said that the Big 8 pushed for a full merger. The Big 8 and the SWC presidents met in 1990 in Kansas City to discuss the merger. According to Wefald, everyone in attendance but Texas was for it. The two conferences met again at DFW Airport in 1993 with every school in attendance but Rice. Again everyone but Texas agreed to the merger. The next time they reached out to Texas they agreed to the 4 SWC teams that joined to be the Big 12. How the 4 SWC came to be is well documented.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - The Cutter of Bish - 07-16-2015 02:32 PM
The UT+OU conference driver convo going into the formation is the version I've heard often. It's what makes hearing any OU-SEC manifest destiny talk so weird to me; the pairing of Texas and Oklahoma under a common banner was driving that conference, and Oklahoma couldn't care less about anyone other than themselves in making that happen for them, severing decades of tradition for it...so be it.
But one sees so much of what was wrong with the whole thing going forward. Those two weren't really on much the same page even then. Texas (and Colorado) had a standing invitation to the PAC. What did Oklahoma (and State) really have back then? The idea of 12 was not loved by every major conference, and 16 had its drawbacks, too (as the WAC would then demonstrate). I doubt the SEC was hot on both Oklahoma schools given the focus on A&M. And so soon after Arkansas and South Carolina? Heck, back then, if the SEC was okay with moving to 14, I bet they'd have gone after Clemson or FSU (again). Different times those were.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - DavidSt - 07-16-2015 02:38 PM
What I read was BYU, TCU and Houston as #12 until Texas politics got involved. I would love to see Baylor get booted for a much more deserving school to be in.
RE: Smoke getting really thick: 2 Oklahoma insiders claim OU in talks with SEC and Big Te - bullet - 07-16-2015 02:56 PM
(07-16-2015 02:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote: What I read was BYU, TCU and Houston as #12 until Texas politics got involved. I would love to see Baylor get booted for a much more deserving school to be in.
In 1994, Baylor was clearly more "deserving" than UH, TCU, SMU or Rice. Only UH was really close. Baylor had more athletic success in the 90s and far more fan support. Rice is small, SMU was just coming off the death penalty, TCU never really recovered from their 1984 recruiting violations and UH was in a big down cycle.