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+------- Thread: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities (/thread-649037.html)
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - the_blazerman - 09-17-2013 01:22 PM
& the reporters/writers for the C&W also stepped out on a limb as well.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - GreenHornet33 - 09-17-2013 02:22 PM
(09-17-2013 01:19 PM)UAB?IAB Wrote: I believe that the beauty of this story is in the spark and not the fire. Had this been started by a group of black students trying to crash the party it would have been met with a lot more resistance from the establishment. The media scrutiny may have been the same. The outcry amongst black people as a whole would have been louder. The progress would have been lower.
But this started with a young white woman being audacious enough to raise her hand and ask, "what about the black girl". Then her friends stood up supported her in extending an invitation to others who don't look like us. In other words, let us judge her by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. To me this is what is often missing when it comes to races relations, or any relationship, who's willing to question the status quo from within.
Everyone has known forever and a day that the greek system at uat was segregated and we accepted it. Most really didn't care, myself included, and those that cared conceded to the machine. I believe real change happens from within, on the micro and macro level. Just because I say what you want to hear, doesn't mean I believe what I say, acceptance is not belief.
We all go through life accepting things we don't believe and seldom fight for the things we do. But this young lady didn't accept the status quo and ask this question because of something she obviously believes in. Why else would she risk so much? That is the ultimate sacrifice risking all that one has for someone else because of what you believe.
Instead of getting caught up in the unpredictability of the fire, we should celebrate the miracle of the spark. Because in the grand scheme of things we are all culpable when we see wrong and we don't say or do anything. Especially when we have the influence to make a difference.
Spot on!
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - Smaug - 09-17-2013 02:34 PM
Echo that point, a source of optimism is that it was the current students who think this is bull****, and the old guard who wants to maintain it.
Time is not on the bluebloods' side. They'll go down kicking and screaming, but they WILL go down.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - the_blazerman - 09-17-2013 06:08 PM
It seems now that some on the faculty senate are wondering why millions of dollars were spent to build frat houses while this discrimination is going on.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - the_blazerman - 09-17-2013 06:18 PM
Interesting tweet thread on Faculty Senate meeting this afternoon.
You may wish to read from the bottom up.
Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 10m
@clickityclack @ajwalsh08 Won't take a side here, but I think UA faculty believes Greek orgs can and should be better policed by admin.
View conversation
Christopher Lynn @Chris_Ly 1h
Motion re statement tabled so more stuff can be folded in #UAFacultySenate
Retweeted by Melissa Brown
from Tuscaloosa, AL
Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Outside of this meeting, sources have told me non-tenured employees are fearful to speak out.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Senator says tenured professors should talk privately with colleagues w/o tenured to they feel comfortable to express opinions.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Miller says 2 weeks time frame, senator wants it in two days. Group consensus appears to be 1 week time frame.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Senator makes motion to postpone consideration of statement until steering committee to beef up statement.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Crowd loudly affirms, applauds senator who says she doesn't feel comfortable with admin. appointing an investigative task force.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Senator: Why can't we ask Pres. Bonner to come address this body in a more timely fashion? (Rather than wait for next monthly meeting)
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Senator says document needs more teeth considering the severity of allegations.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Multiple senators expressing opinions that drafted statement (http://ow.ly/oXE70 ) is not strong, specific enough.
View summary
Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Senator: I do not want to approve this statement because it is generic, it's soft.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Senator wants Bonner to give live progress reports to FS, Tricia McElroy says she wants a discussion, not a statement from her.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Senator wants to asks for monthly progress reports from central administration -- audience laughs, applauds.
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Will Tucker @wjtuck 1h
and 2. None of this would ever be happening without the media.
Retweeted by Melissa Brown
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Will Tucker @wjtuck 1h
Bonner's quotes in this piece exemplify the generational divide at UA. http://blog.al.com/breaking/2013/09/alabama_president_judy_bonner.html?fb_action_ids=558653860851227&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%22558653860851227%22%3A174221899430540%7D&action_type_map=%7B%22558653860851227%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%7B%22558653860851227%22%3A%22s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like%22%7D … 1. Our lives play out in [social] media...
Retweeted by Melissa Brown
View summary
Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Clarification: Student said it's not *just* the students, it's also the students who have graduated.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Student says these conversations need to be had with alumni offices, offices that handle alumni donations.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
English grad student: It's not the students, it's also the students who have graduated who are asking "who's running things?"
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
"We need to have rules worthy of enforcement, but also have administration and faculty willing to call out violations."
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
@ajwalsh08 amateur.
View conversation
Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
@ajwalsh08 Well, I think that is how the majority of the room feels, too.
View conversation
Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Bunker is talking about loans green lighted by Board of Trustees meeting last week.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Bunker: I would say there is some leverage. There has to be some sort of leverage there.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Bunker: But $20 million in loans are going to Greek houses (audible gasp in room).
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Bunker: We were told repeatedly that UA has no control over private orgs and their affairs.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Senator: We're essentially sanctioning and supporting Greek orgs by having them on campus, so we should discuss consequences.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Senator wants to take action steps to exert greater control over Greek chapter advisers.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Melanie Carter: Faculty should get involved in student organizations and be the leaders. We're at UA to teach, to educate.
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Christopher Lynn @Chris_Ly 1h
Fred whiting says we are part of machine & perpetuating it by settling for addressing just a few issues #UAFacultySenate
Retweeted by Melissa Brown
from Tuscaloosa, AL
Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
@wjtuck I don't see her, and she wasn't introduced.
View conversation
Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Paul Horwitz says FS shouldn't be afraid to say "Machine", Shoaff asks group if its possible to conduct investigation into The Machine.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Picone calls UA's response inadequate. Asks what about fraternities? What about UA employee embroiled in discrimination?
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Michael Picone: This is a very serious state of affairs and the admin must come forward with the strongest possible response.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Jason DeCaro, anthro prof, saying FS has moral authority to carry out reforms long after current students graduate.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Miller asking permission of senate for non-senators to speak.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 1h
Harold Stowell: I'm mad bcuz we, as part of university/admin, have been unable/unwilling to do anything about it. It's a long term problem.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Senator says it appears in both voter fraud and segregation situation, someone outside of the university "hijacked" student body.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Bagley: We have great students...I don't know that we have admin that will be bold enough to keep them accountable.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Meredith Bagley: What makes me mad is the administration and the lack of proactive moral and ethical leadership.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Bunker:We have to deal with the larger culture of impunity at all levels...We can't tar all greeks as part of the problem here.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Bunker: I want to work with the admin. I think this University is now large enough that it cannot continue in old ways.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Steve Bunker: We cannot extricate the two [voter fraud/segregation] This is not about bashing greeks...this is a larger culture of impunity.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Turner says open bidding steps are "not enough," more needs to be done.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Sierra Turner: We have a responsibility to our students that we hold our administration accountable.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Prof. Jennifer Shoaff says greek system has "actively created an environment that is discriminatory, exclusionary."
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Senators discussing relations between the voter fraud allegations and segregation issues.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Second 20 minute segment: Action senators might propose in moving forward with the issue.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Miller plans to break discussion into 3 parts: 20 min spent on "I'm mad as hell, I won't take it anymore."
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
FS applauding reps from @TheCrimsonWhite for their story breaking segregation issues.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
@getlowder wait wut
View conversation
Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Parliamentarian outlining rules for discussion/speaking on the floor for people in the room unfamiliar with FS regulations.
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Melissa Brown @itsmelissabrown 2h
Faculty Senate (FS) has several unrelated matters to attend to before opening discussion on this: http://ow.ly/oXE70
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - mixduptransistor - 09-17-2013 07:46 PM
Bravo to the faculty. They've got some cojones to speak out like that. And the folks without tenure are absolutely right to not speak out.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - dfarr - 09-17-2013 08:33 PM
I'm partly torn on the whole issue. One part agrees with it being ****** that this girl who according to reports was a more than perfect for candidate aside from her skin pigmentation not getting a bid. The part that I don't agree with is their being a "forced integration" of Greek organizations.
Now before the lynch mob gets riled up, hear me out.
My problem with there being this forced stuff is how is it going to be implemented. Is every girl going to get a bid, or just the black rushees? Not every man or woman who rushes gets a bid. These groups are meant to be exclusive, not necessarily all inclusive. Who will be able to decide the membership after the new rules are put in? The university? Is there going to be a new office of Greek diversity created to oversee that every Greek organization has x% of minorities?
I'm also curious as to how many black women have actually gone through rush in the past? My wife was in a sorority at UAT and she can't remember a single one. So is all this fervor being riled up over a once in a blue moon incident? Also, do any of the black fraternities and sororities in campus have white members, or has a similar thing happened in any of the NPHC (traditionally black) organizations?
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - Smaug - 09-17-2013 08:37 PM
Funny line from Richard Dixon, when whoever it was said "Now is the time."
"Wait. You mean it's 1963 already?"
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - the_blazerman - 09-17-2013 08:44 PM
I think it was Bonner.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - mixduptransistor - 09-17-2013 09:47 PM
(09-17-2013 08:33 PM)dfarr Wrote: I'm partly torn on the whole issue. One part agrees with it being ****** that this girl who according to reports was a more than perfect for candidate aside from her skin pigmentation not getting a bid. The part that I don't agree with is their being a "forced integration" of Greek organizations.
Now before the lynch mob gets riled up, hear me out.
My problem with there being this forced stuff is how is it going to be implemented. Is every girl going to get a bid, or just the black rushees? Not every man or woman who rushes gets a bid. These groups are meant to be exclusive, not necessarily all inclusive. Who will be able to decide the membership after the new rules are put in? The university? Is there going to be a new office of Greek diversity created to oversee that every Greek organization has x% of minorities?
I'm also curious as to how many black women have actually gone through rush in the past? My wife was in a sorority at UAT and she can't remember a single one. So is all this fervor being riled up over a once in a blue moon incident? Also, do any of the black fraternities and sororities in campus have white members, or has a similar thing happened in any of the NPHC (traditionally black) organizations?
Yeah, I mean, the members wanting to vote her in, getting blocked by alumni specifically because she was black should totally be ignored because it only happens every now and then.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - the_blazerman - 09-17-2013 10:01 PM
The students and faculty are planning a march in the morning to protest racism at the campus.
This issue is blowing up more than some wanted.
I for one, don't think Bonner (privately) takes the correct side, nor do Witt or some on the BOT, not to mention advisors, etc.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - dfarr - 09-17-2013 10:08 PM
(09-17-2013 09:47 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:(09-17-2013 08:33 PM)dfarr Wrote: I'm partly torn on the whole issue. One part agrees with it being ****** that this girl who according to reports was a more than perfect for candidate aside from her skin pigmentation not getting a bid. The part that I don't agree with is their being a "forced integration" of Greek organizations.
Now before the lynch mob gets riled up, hear me out.
My problem with there being this forced stuff is how is it going to be implemented. Is every girl going to get a bid, or just the black rushees? Not every man or woman who rushes gets a bid. These groups are meant to be exclusive, not necessarily all inclusive. Who will be able to decide the membership after the new rules are put in? The university? Is there going to be a new office of Greek diversity created to oversee that every Greek organization has x% of minorities?
I'm also curious as to how many black women have actually gone through rush in the past? My wife was in a sorority at UAT and she can't remember a single one. So is all this fervor being riled up over a once in a blue moon incident? Also, do any of the black fraternities and sororities in campus have white members, or has a similar thing happened in any of the NPHC (traditionally black) organizations?
Yeah, I mean, the members wanting to vote her in, getting blocked by alumni specifically because she was black should totally be ignored because it only happens every now and then.
My main point is that this could lead to a knee jerk over correction.
Also, someone could look good on paper but suck in real life. I saw plenty of it during my time in college.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - mixduptransistor - 09-17-2013 10:38 PM
Well of course. I do see the point you were trying to make, and it is probably what will happen--the university will make some small changes, a few token black girls will be given admission into the various groups, and everyone will act like it's all fixed. Of course, it won't be, and the girls who do get in and the ones who don't will all be done a disservice. That said, it shouldn't just be ignored and shrugged off as "oh well, they're private organizations" because they got $20 million in loans for greek housing just this past BOT meeting.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - GreenHornet33 - 09-17-2013 11:27 PM
(09-17-2013 08:33 PM)dfarr Wrote: I'm partly torn on the whole issue. One part agrees with it being ****** that this girl who according to reports was a more than perfect for candidate aside from her skin pigmentation not getting a bid. The part that I don't agree with is their being a "forced integration" of Greek organizations.
Now before the lynch mob gets riled up, hear me out.
My problem with there being this forced stuff is how is it going to be implemented. Is every girl going to get a bid, or just the black rushees? Not every man or woman who rushes gets a bid. These groups are meant to be exclusive, not necessarily all inclusive. Who will be able to decide the membership after the new rules are put in? The university? Is there going to be a new office of Greek diversity created to oversee that every Greek organization has x% of minorities?
I'm also curious as to how many black women have actually gone through rush in the past? My wife was in a sorority at UAT and she can't remember a single one. So is all this fervor being riled up over a once in a blue moon incident? Also, do any of the black fraternities and sororities in campus have white members, or has a similar thing happened in any of the NPHC (traditionally black) organizations?
The NPHC organizations work completely different. We do not have rush week or any of those other things. Most of the NPHC organizations at UA have been integrated for a few decades. I know the Eta Chi Chapter of Kappa Alpha Psi welcomed the first white member during the Spring of 84 which was 3 years after Beta Zeta (my chapter) crossed our first white member.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - TheGORILLA - 09-18-2013 07:25 AM
Why didn't the BOT step in and put an end to segregation of sororities years ago? Hmm?
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - the_blazerman - 09-18-2013 07:30 AM
(09-18-2013 07:25 AM)TheGORILLA Wrote: Why didn't the BOT step in and put an end to segregation of sororities years ago? Hmm?
Because several on the BOT have been the ring leaders?
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - dfarr - 09-18-2013 07:43 AM
(09-18-2013 07:25 AM)TheGORILLA Wrote: Why didn't the BOT step in and put an end to segregation of sororities years ago? Hmm?
What were they supposed to do? Say "you guys give the 1 black girl who rushes every 10 years a bid or else?"
Also, should they pass a rule forcing them to give bids to the bigger girls? I guarantee you that there were more fat girls who didn't get bids than there were black girls who didn't get bids.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - GreenHornet33 - 09-18-2013 08:03 AM
(09-18-2013 07:30 AM)the_blazerman Wrote:(09-18-2013 07:25 AM)TheGORILLA Wrote: Why didn't the BOT step in and put an end to segregation of sororities years ago? Hmm?
Because several on the BOT have been the ring leaders?
From everything that I've read that’s the case. So many faculty fear that they will lose their jobs if they speak out. The thing that really pi$$es me off is that these same people will scream and yell Roll Tide and cheer on black athletes every Saturday, they'll almost idolize the star black players, but will look down on blacks when it’s time to be a part of a sorority. I’m pretty sure that this twisted state of mind extends beyond just Greek issues. It’s sad and very hypocritical.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - backyardblazer - 09-18-2013 08:07 AM
(09-18-2013 07:43 AM)dfarr Wrote:(09-18-2013 07:25 AM)TheGORILLA Wrote: Why didn't the BOT step in and put an end to segregation of sororities years ago? Hmm?
What were they supposed to do? Say "you guys give the 1 black girl who rushes every 10 years a bid or else?"
Also, should they pass a rule forcing them to give bids to the bigger girls? I guarantee you that there were more fat girls who didn't get bids than there were black girls who didn't get bids.
It' more than "1 black girl every 10 years" but the numbers are relatively small. In the three years my daughters went through rush, there were less than five blacks going out for rush each time. There were around 1750 girls in these rushes. And 99% of the time, the black girls dropped out of rush before it was through. Some because they didn't like rush and some because they knew they would be dropped.
And good point about the "large girl" bids, as there many more girls shunned for being fat, ur-attractive, not enough charm, etc.
I think the whole Greek system is a joke and needs to go the way of the zeppelin, but I ain't holding my breath.
RE: OT: Calling Out Bama's "Good Ole Gal" Sororities - the_blazerman - 09-18-2013 08:10 AM
I suspect very strongly (as do a lot of others) that Guy Bailey was dismissed as president of UA because he wanted to integrate the greek system.
Who do you suppose arranged the dismissal? (Robert Witt and the "core" members of the BOT)
Bonner was selected as the next president to right (or white) the ship.
She has had several months to continue Bailey's plan for integration but had not spoken out on it until the other day. The reason? I don't believe she wanted it done, but is being forced to do it because of outside pressure now.