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The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Printable Version

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RE: Refuse the Juice says ballpark dead - randaddyminer - 06-20-2013 05:57 PM

because he wants everyone to look at him


RE: Refuse the Juice says ballpark dead - Fitbud - 06-20-2013 06:20 PM

So you don't find the blog interesting?


RE: Refuse the Juice says ballpark dead - mistabinks - 06-20-2013 06:39 PM

I'll comment on the blog in the appropriate thread when I'm in front of my computer. It will be time consuming to try and do it on my phone.


RE: Refuse the Juice says ballpark dead - Fitbud - 06-20-2013 06:41 PM

It's a possible scenario on the ballpark that I think is not possible but interesting anyway.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-20-2013 06:45 PM

(06-20-2013 05:41 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  so you wanted Lesser to win, even though you didn't know what his political platform? What's funny is that some of the naysayers are now complaining because it looks like Lesser is on the same page that Ortega and the rest of the progressives were on

I never agreed with Ortega's politics. I would have voted for anyone vs. Ortega.

That said, I am glad that Lesser agreed with me in that he would not have put the ballpark at the City Hall location.

What is done is done.

As I have said before, I am not against progress. I just think there is a better way.

I am confident that Lesser will find a better way to move this city forward.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - randaddyminer - 06-20-2013 07:06 PM

he wants the arena downtown, also. I'm pretty sure he would have decided to put the stadium downtown. City hall is the only location it makes sense to build the stadium. Plus, thank god city hall is gone, that was the ugliest building downtown and it's architecture didn't even fit in with the rest of downtown.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-20-2013 07:30 PM

(06-20-2013 07:06 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  he wants the arena downtown, also. I'm pretty sure he would have decided to put the stadium downtown. City hall is the only location it makes sense to build the stadium. Plus, thank god city hall is gone, that was the ugliest building downtown and it's architecture didn't even fit in with the rest of downtown.

Why does everything need to be downtown? There are plenty of other places to put the arena.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - randaddyminer - 06-20-2013 07:36 PM

(06-20-2013 07:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(06-20-2013 07:06 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  he wants the arena downtown, also. I'm pretty sure he would have decided to put the stadium downtown. City hall is the only location it makes sense to build the stadium. Plus, thank god city hall is gone, that was the ugliest building downtown and it's architecture didn't even fit in with the rest of downtown.

Why does everything need to be downtown? There are plenty of other places to put the arena.

why not downtown? centrally located, easily accessible to all residents of El Paso.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-20-2013 11:27 PM

(06-20-2013 07:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(06-20-2013 07:06 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  he wants the arena downtown, also. I'm pretty sure he would have decided to put the stadium downtown. City hall is the only location it makes sense to build the stadium. Plus, thank god city hall is gone, that was the ugliest building downtown and it's architecture didn't even fit in with the rest of downtown.

Why does everything need to be downtown? There are plenty of other places to put the arena.

I am used to you circling back when you paint yourself into a corner dialogue wise but this is ridiculous. Why downtown? How far back to your want to reach in order to "bring the alternative point of view?"


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-21-2013 12:16 AM

The whole premise of revitalizing downtown is the center of my issue with the ballpark.

It's a stupid idea. Why would any city want to revitalize a section of the city that everyone has essentially moved out of?

It's a " flip this house" trap.

What is going on here is investors buying up property that is almost worthless and convincing others to invest in it only to sell it when they think they can make a profit.

There is a reason why the majority of this city is moving into the suburbs.........because they want new houses, new streets, and new amenities. What makes the most sense is to build things such as stadiums in areas where this is happening. East Side or West side.

Let's get real here. People who live on the West side or East side will think twice about going downtown to watch a ball game and even if they do make the trip, they will likely go back to their part of town to eat and party. No one wants to have to drive home from downtown after a couple of drinks.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-21-2013 12:20 AM

Fair points. I like the idea of it being downtown. I don't think the stadium has to be in an area where people live (east, west). Also, you would alienate the west side if the stadium was built on the east side and vice versa. With the rapid transit and trolleys coming, getting into downtown is not going to be as bad as people are making it out to be. Back to square one, I don't think the stadium alone is going to change downtown. I think it is going to be the catalyst that does though.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-21-2013 12:38 AM

Lots of people like the idea of a stadium being downtown but that is likely because it looks good on TV. The reality is that it's a nightmare.

1. There will always be a percentage of people who will not go because it's too much trouble to drive and park.

2. The transit system does not account for people that live outside of the dowtown/mesa area. Buses don't run after 8 either.

3. Even people who show up to the game would rather return to their side of town before considering having after game drinks.

4. If this is even remotely a attraction for out of town folks, it should have been centrally located near the airport. We don't even have "on demand" taxi service in this town. Tourists are less likely to catch a game if they know they have to set up a pick up and drive 20 min. to catch a game.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-21-2013 12:47 AM

1. The same can be said about Cohen Stadium. Fair or not, there is a percentage that will not drive to the northeast.

2. The rapid transit is going to have four routes (Mesa, Montana, Dyer, and Alameda. It is the trolley that will only be going up and down Mesa. That being said, I am hopeful/optimistic that they will adjust the schedule and route to get people to the stadium. The City has a history of doing this for Sun Bowl events and UTEP football.

3. Some will stay in downtown and some will return asap. We shall see soon enough.

4. Interestingly that you mention that. Today, a bunch of City staffers were talking about the need for more downtown hotel rooms. Agree or not, conventions want to stay downtown. They just do. The City is on the Camino Real's ass to get their shyt together. Once you get people downtown, the stadium is an entertainment option. It is not the answer. It is not the thing that is going to bring tens of thousands of people to El Paso. It is simply a part of the new foundation.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-21-2013 12:54 AM

1, Cohen is not for everyone but for half the price, it could have been renovated and it has plenty of parking.

2. Rapid transit is just now breaking ground on Mesa. How many years until it is functional in the other locations you mention?

4. If conventions want to stay downtown, why is it that most Hotels are near the airport? The convention center may be downtown but the hotels are near the airport. Perhaps city council should get wise and build the arena near the airport rather than downtown.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-21-2013 12:58 AM

2. All four routes will be completed by 2017. That being said, the actual transit units will be here next year. Or they can use regular Sun Metro buses like for Sun Bowl events. I am hopeful I will be able to drive to a Sun Metro hub, hop on a bus, and get dropped off near the stadium. For me, that is ideal for weekday games. On the weekends, I plan on driving to downtown and spending the evening and night there.

4. Most hotels are near the airport? Some hotels are near the airport. There are hotels all over El Paso. Apparently there is a demand for more hotel rooms downtown right now though.

Three arena projects were shot down previously. One was at Bassett and one was at Ascarate. I can't remember where that third one was supposed to be. That kind of City leadership is what I desperately hope to avoid. We need to move forward. I think we are.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - randaddyminer - 06-21-2013 01:44 AM

So fit wants to spend half the money it would cost to build a new stadium on renovating cohen stadium... What would that cost, 25-30 million? Which would then force us to renovate city hall at a cost of another 30 million.... So we would basically spend 60 million to upgrade an old ass, ugly looking, backwards standing, wind tunnel producing, non-architectural fitting, non-plastic material building in downtown... and a stadium in the north-east... okay got it.

Fit, one of these days, I hope enemasU hires you as their CFO


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-21-2013 01:11 PM

Ballpark price: City comes out a winner

El Paso Times Editorial Board

Quote:Team owners, not El Paso taxpayers, will pay for upgrades to the design and construction contracts of the new Downtown ballpark. That makes it a good deal and City Council was prudent by agreeing to an increased price tag for the facility now under construction.

The total cost is now $60.8 million, and MountainStar Sports will, over time, pay the added $12.1 million -- plus make the deal sweeter for El Paso.

Council approved the new cost by a 5-3 vote. Representatives Eddie Holguin, Emma Acosta and Carl Robinson continue to be against this project, geared to be a catalyst toward Downtown revitalization.

How can there be complaints when private money will give El Paso a better facility? And, as promised by city leaders, the entire project will be paid by means other than dunning local taxpayers.

Mountain Star will now double its annual lease to $400,000 a year over 30 years, with a 10-percent lease hike every five years.

Officials say new projections indicate the hotel occupancy tax will cover more of the cost than previously thought -- now 80 percent.

The rest of the costs will be covered by the MountainStar lease and ticket and parking revenues.

An added major benefit to the new deal is there will be enough money raised that no general fund revenues, such as sales taxes, would be needed for ballpark costs. It's estimated that will be about $28 million in extra revenue. That could go back into the city's general fund, or it could be used to pay off the ballpark debt early.

A side benefit to the new deal is that the team must remain in El Paso for at least 30 years, up from 25.

Holguin argued that the decision should have been postponed so the incoming mayor, Oscar Leeser, and two new members of Council, Larry Romero and Lilia Limon, could have a say in the matter.

As a retort to that, El Pasoans got an early insight into the thinking of Leeser, who said he does not want to move backward or slow the process of the ballpark project.

He also said "I will protect the taxpayer money," which is something Council has done on this project.

Tuesday's was the last meeting of those leaving the Mayor John Cook administration -- Cook and city Reps. Steve Ortega and Susie Byrd.

Yes, definitely, the decision to up the ballpark price tag was this administration's to make. And it made the correct decision.

El Pasoans will now get a better ballpark when Pacific Coast League play begins in April with our team being the Triple-A franchise of the San Diego Padres.

With this, El Paso has taken another step in a forward direction.



RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-21-2013 11:55 PM

So who pays the 21 million dollars in estimated interest?


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-21-2013 11:57 PM

(06-21-2013 01:44 AM)randaddyminer Wrote:  So fit wants to spend half the money it would cost to build a new stadium on renovating cohen stadium... What would that cost, 25-30 million? Which would then force us to renovate city hall at a cost of another 30 million.... So we would basically spend 60 million to upgrade an old ass, ugly looking, backwards standing, wind tunnel producing, non-architectural fitting, non-plastic material building in downtown... and a stadium in the north-east... okay got it.

Fit, one of these days, I hope enemasU hires you as their CFO

I'm saying that is what I would have preferred over the demolition of City hall. It's already too late for that.

I don't mind having a new arena. I just don't see why it has to be downtown.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-21-2013 11:58 PM

(06-21-2013 12:58 AM)mistabinks Wrote:  2. All four routes will be completed by 2017. That being said, the actual transit units will be here next year. Or they can use regular Sun Metro buses like for Sun Bowl events. I am hopeful I will be able to drive to a Sun Metro hub, hop on a bus, and get dropped off near the stadium. For me, that is ideal for weekday games. On the weekends, I plan on driving to downtown and spending the evening and night there.

4. Most hotels are near the airport? Some hotels are near the airport. There are hotels all over El Paso. Apparently there is a demand for more hotel rooms downtown right now though.

Three arena projects were shot down previously. One was at Bassett and one was at Ascarate. I can't remember where that third one was supposed to be. That kind of City leadership is what I desperately hope to avoid. We need to move forward. I think we are.

I don't mind using the bus. I went to the Sun Bowl game and got absolutely bombed and didn't have to worry because I took the bus.