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The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Printable Version

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RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-27-2013 12:49 AM

(06-26-2013 11:50 PM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  
(06-26-2013 05:07 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(06-26-2013 03:38 AM)mistabinks Wrote:  A family of four at the very least should expect to pay for four general admission tickets.


You are missing the point. Holguin knows that many of his constituents will never have the disposable cash to enjoy baseball games in the first place so he wants to make sure that none of their tax payer money ever goes to the building of a baseball stadium.

It may be the case now that it won't come from tax payer money but it may not be the case forever.

Most people don't think deeply enough to understand why people vote the way they do. I'm sure a lot of people think Holguin is doing it simply because he hates rich people.

I know you however understand that it is more complicated than that.

They will never afford a 6 dollar ticket? You serious?
Or is this just crazy talk?

It would seem that you have never lived in poverty. Six dollars is literally enough to put dinner on the table for a family of four. If you are in that situation, you are not even dreaming of going to a ballgame where you would have to shell out 24 dollars on tickets, 6 dollars on parking. Not including concessions which would be out of the question.

Many who live in Holguin's district will never go to a ball game. For this reason, it is understandable that they would have no interest in raising taxes for a ballpark.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-27-2013 12:53 AM

Moot point. Taxes are not going to be raised to find the stadium.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-27-2013 12:56 AM

(06-27-2013 12:53 AM)mistabinks Wrote:  Moot point. Taxes are not going to be raised to find the stadium.

What are you talking about?

Taxes have already been raised to pay for the stadium and there is no indications that it won't happen again.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-27-2013 12:56 AM

Incorrect.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-27-2013 12:58 AM

(06-27-2013 12:56 AM)mistabinks Wrote:  Incorrect.

So the Hotel Occupancy Tax wasn't really a tax?

Wow, I can't wait to hear this one.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-27-2013 01:02 AM

Not a property tax on Rep Holguin's poverty stricken citizens you have been rambling about for a few days now.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-27-2013 01:08 AM

The stadium may not be funded directly by property tax at this point but that doesn't mean that it doesn't effect property owners.

Hotels like the Double Tree who are getting tax subsidies from the city could easily claim that the HOT tax is hurting their profit margin. They could turn around and ask for an extension of their tax subsidies. That extension would in turn for city council to look for monies elsewhere to make up for the shortfall. Thus, an indirect burden on home owners.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-27-2013 10:24 AM

(06-27-2013 01:08 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The stadium may not be funded directly by property tax at this point but that doesn't mean that it doesn't effect property owners.

Ah, more speculation. Very well.

(06-27-2013 01:08 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Hotels like the Double Tree who are getting tax subsidies from the city could easily claim that the HOT tax is hurting their profit margin.

So you were worried about Holguin's constituents and now your argument is based on speculation that hotels are losing business based on a 2% tax increase. Do you have any evidence to support this? If not, you can file this argument until you have something to back your theory. 625K says the hotel industry is just fine.

(06-27-2013 01:08 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  They could turn around and ask for an extension of their tax subsidies. That extension would in turn for city council to look for monies elsewhere to make up for the shortfall. Thus, an indirect burden on home owners.

Key word being extension. That means that is money the City hasn't had and wouldn't have to replace.

Even though you had to resort to a "this could happen" reply, you still had nothing. Whiffed again.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-28-2013 12:12 AM

(06-27-2013 10:24 AM)mistabinks Wrote:  
(06-27-2013 01:08 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The stadium may not be funded directly by property tax at this point but that doesn't mean that it doesn't effect property owners.

Ah, more speculation. Very well.

(06-27-2013 01:08 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Hotels like the Double Tree who are getting tax subsidies from the city could easily claim that the HOT tax is hurting their profit margin.

So you were worried about Holguin's constituents and now your argument is based on speculation that hotels are losing business based on a 2% tax increase. Do you have any evidence to support this? If not, you can file this argument until you have something to back your theory. 625K says the hotel industry is just fine.

(06-27-2013 01:08 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  They could turn around and ask for an extension of their tax subsidies. That extension would in turn for city council to look for monies elsewhere to make up for the shortfall. Thus, an indirect burden on home owners.

Key word being extension. That means that is money the City hasn't had and wouldn't have to replace.

Even though you had to resort to a "this could happen" reply, you still had nothing. Whiffed again.

The bottom line is that the numbers all all projections and could change at any moment over the 30 year contract.

There is no guarantee that this won't cost the city of El Paso.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-28-2013 12:35 AM

(06-28-2013 12:12 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The bottom line is that the numbers all all projections and could change at any moment over the 30 year contract.

Not MountainStar's rent. That is in the contract. 400K a year. Regardless if they sell the team or any other wild scenario. The City of El Paso will be receiving 12 million from the team owners.

(06-28-2013 12:12 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  There is no guarantee that this won't cost the city of El Paso.

While I can't say for 100% certain the stadium will not cost the City of El Paso money, real life facts and actual trends seem to indicate there will be excess HOT tax monies that will go to the general fund. This is going to make the City of El Paso money.

[Image: tumblr_mmb1hklMJd1r93xiko1_500.gif]


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-28-2013 12:45 AM

(06-28-2013 12:35 AM)mistabinks Wrote:  
(06-28-2013 12:12 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The bottom line is that the numbers all all projections and could change at any moment over the 30 year contract.

Not MountainStar's rent. That is in the contract. 400K a year. Regardless if they sell the team or any other wild scenario. The City of El Paso will be receiving 12 million from the team owners.

(06-28-2013 12:12 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  There is no guarantee that this won't cost the city of El Paso.

While I can't say for 100% certain the stadium will not cost the City of El Paso money, real life facts and actual trends seem to indicate there will be excess HOT tax monies that will go to the general fund. This is going to make the City of El Paso money.

[Image: tumblr_mmb1hklMJd1r93xiko1_500.gif]

And numerous studies would say the opposite.

According the the El Paso CFO, projected interest on this deal has now changed to 31 million dollars.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-28-2013 12:51 AM

(06-28-2013 12:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  And numerous studies would say the opposite.

What studies? And are they about the El Paso, Texas AAA baseball stadium?

(06-28-2013 12:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  According the the El Paso CFO, projected interest on this deal has now changed to 31 million dollars.

31 million dollars of interest on a 60 million dollar loan?

Assuming that's true, that is a total of 91 million dollars. A conservative estimate is the HOT tax will bring in 75 million dollars. MountainStar is kicking in 12 million dollars. That 91 million number is practically covered and we have not even gotten to monies generated from parking, ticket surcharges, proceeds, etc. I love it!


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-29-2013 02:36 AM

What Studies?

Do we really need to go over this again? There have been several books about this subject and several studies?

If you insist, I will post them again.

As for the CFO. I report, you decide.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - randaddyminer - 06-29-2013 02:59 AM

(06-29-2013 02:36 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  What Studies?

Do we really need to go over this again? There have been several books about this subject and several studies?

If you insist, I will post them again.

As for the CFO. I report, you decide.

Produce your studies, fit.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-29-2013 04:42 AM

It's somewhat of a satire at his point. In all seriousness, fitbud routinely sends the discussion in a circle yet seems annoyed when he himself has to repeat himself. I know the dialogue here is forced and fitbud is probably getting a decent laugh but there has to become fairness. "I report, you decide?" Sorry, no, you don't have the credibility on this site to have your posts taken as truthful.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 06-29-2013 08:10 PM

You are entitled to your own opinion but you aren't entitled to your own facts.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 06-30-2013 02:48 PM

(06-29-2013 08:10 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  You are entitled to your own opinion but you aren't entitled to your own facts.

[Image: mHM3DMk.gif]


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 07-09-2013 12:28 AM

Quote:Cool it, Eddie

City Rep. Eddie Holguin demanded that MountainStar guarantee $12 million for their part of ballpark construction. He says he wants to make sure that if MountainStar goes bankrupt that we wouldn't be stuck holding that bag.

Some questions:

1. When was the last time the city required a guarantee, or the money up front, from an entity they have done business with?

2. Does Holguin plan on spending the next four years kicking Foster's and Hunt's shins so he can stand in front of the cameras and tell constituents he is battling the evil forces of progress?

3. What does he propose we do with the land? He has a lot of reasons why he hate's the ballpark, but no ideas of what would be better?

Eddie should put his school ma'rm hat away, unpoint his finger at the big, bad rich people, and get on with this. Why does he love to sing the "I can't wait for the ballpark to fail so I can say I told you so" song?

The thought that Foster and Hunt want to bankrupt hardworking residents is ridiculous. He slings that accusation because there is no better way to scare the heck out of people than telling them the big, bad rich people want to run them out of their homes.

He should be ashamed of himself for frightening people.

Patricia Martinez

East El Paso

Well said. Well said.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - mistabinks - 07-09-2013 12:32 AM

Quote:When two families present the city with a $20 million-plus gift, respect should be shown. Instead, some here continue to nip at the ankles of MountainStar Sports Group over construction costs of the new Downtown ballpark. That was again the case at Tuesday's City Council meeting.

MountainStar rightfully refused to give the city a new written guarantee that they won't leave the city holding the bag should the group go bankrupt.

This is nothing but political grandstanding, led by city Rep. Eddie Holguin, to disparage the bringing of Triple-A baseball to Downtown El Paso.

MountainStar has already agreed to cover some $12 million in early cost overruns of what's now a $60.8 million ballpark, and its lawyer said Tuesday if any more building costs are needed, MountainStar would foot that bill, too.

MountainStar owns no part of the ballpark. It's a City of El Paso property. The group will be a tenant and will pay yearly fees to use the facility.

City Manager Joyce Wilson said there were no "issue or problems" regarding the ongoing ballpark construction. Bids are not coming in higher than expected, she said.

MountainStar is composed of three wealthy families -- Woody and Josh Hunt, and Paul Foster and his wife Alejandra de la Vega Foster. The Hunt, Foster and de la Vega families have given many millions of dollars to El Paso causes over the years. The de la Vega family is one of the wealthiest in Mexico.

The families agreed to purchase the Triple-A franchise of the San Diego Padres if the city would promise to build a Downtown ballpark and have it ready for the 2014 season.

The purchase price of the franchise was said to be $20 million.

The original ballpark cost was $50 million, and that money will come from the hotel occupancy tax and surcharges on game tickets and parking. No El Paso property taxes are to be used.

When the cost rose by $12 million, MountainStar agreed to pay it over years. They will increase their lease agreement from $200,000 a year to $400,000 a year.

Now they are saying if the costs go higher, or they want additional amenities on the ballpark, they would pay that, too.

This should be looked upon as a gift to El Paso. When Foster gave $50 million to the Texas Tech medical school here, there was much community praise. Likewise with all the million-dollar-plus donations by the Hunts.

Buying a Triple-A baseball team for El Paso, one that will draw people to Downtown businesses and help our economy, should be looked upon as yet another gift.

Indeed.


RE: The Official Downtown Baseball Stadium Discussion Thread - Fitbud - 07-10-2013 12:49 PM

These wealthy families have done a lot for El Paso. Everyone in this city should hope that this baseball team thrives and becomes a mainstay in this city.

That doesn't mean however that the city shouldn't be vigilante in how it spends tax payer money.

As long as things stay on the up and up, there shouldn't be a problem.

There is no guarantee that this project will be a success. Even Mountain Star admits to that.

Only time will tell.