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WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - DetroitRocket - 03-31-2013 09:46 AM
K State 66 Illinois 48
At K State. Attendance 1717
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - Toledo Football 1st - 03-31-2013 10:36 AM
I guess the Rockets wore 'em out!
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - T-Town - 03-31-2013 10:37 AM
(03-31-2013 09:46 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote: K State 66 Illinois 48
At K State. Attendance 1717
Wow----not to draw too many conclusions based on just a couple of games, but you have to wonder if (1) UT was really as good as we all thought OR (2) did UT just catch an Illinois team (which it didn't match up well against) that was in a zone (literally and figuratively) for that one night.
I have to favor reason (2) because frankly I thought that UT at home would be superior to the fifth place team from the Big Ten or any other conference for that matter (but then UT did also loss to the fourth seed in the MAC, so who knows?).
Too bad because Savage would probably have had 5000+ in attendance for Kansas State.
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - FrickerRon - 03-31-2013 10:46 AM
(03-31-2013 10:37 AM)T-Town Wrote:2 of our 4 loses where to teams that played a zone defense against us. I think we were out coached in both games, also I think our play over the last month was not good. Our shooting was terrible, lucky the MAC was very weak this year.(03-31-2013 09:46 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote: K State 66 Illinois 48
At K State. Attendance 1717
Wow----not to draw too many conclusions based on just a couple of games, but you have to wonder if (1) UT was really as good as we all thought OR (2) did UT just catch an Illinois team (which it didn't match up well against) that was in a zone (literally and figuratively) for that one night.
I have to favor reason (2) because frankly I thought that UT at home would be superior to the fifth place team from the Big Ten or any other conference for that matter (but then UT did also lost to the fourth seed in the MAC, so who knows?).
Too bad because Savage would probably have had 5000+ in attendance for Kansas State.
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - rkt - 03-31-2013 12:29 PM
I don't know if you're right Frick, but my guess is that the wrath of the we-love-our-Lady-Rockets-and-we-have-a-fan-tunnel crowd is about to come crashing down on your head, so take cover.
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - SylvaniaRocket - 03-31-2013 12:51 PM
If a zone is so effective, why don't we play zone more often?
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - inductchuck16 - 03-31-2013 10:36 PM
Well this just goes to show Toledo really was just a WNIT sweet 16 type of team this year...despite their impressive record.
As someone mentioned earlier, Naama just wasn't the same after her injury.
I sure would have loved to seen Savage packed for the remaining WNIT games. Oh well, we had our fun in 2011.
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - Dwight - 04-01-2013 06:50 AM
I don't think we should get too wrapped up in the logic of "Illinois beat us, and Kansas State beat Illinois, so Kansas State would have crushed us." I could go a lot of directions in a lot different sports to show the fallacy of that logic, but an easy place to start would be this season in women's basketball, where a mediocre Bowling Green team beat Dayton and Central Michigan by 30 points each. (Oh, yeah, and then lost to Central by 30 after Central lost one of its better players to injury.)
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - H2Oville Rocket - 04-01-2013 07:54 AM
(04-01-2013 06:50 AM)Dwight Wrote: I don't think we should get too wrapped up in the logic of "Illinois beat us, and Kansas State beat Illinois, so Kansas State would have crushed us." I could go a lot of directions in a lot different sports to show the fallacy of that logic, but an easy place to start would be this season in women's basketball, where a mediocre Bowling Green team beat Dayton and Central Michigan by 30 points each. (Oh, yeah, and then lost to Central by 30 after Central lost one of its better players to injury.)
True dat.
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - temoxley - 04-01-2013 07:55 AM
(03-31-2013 10:46 AM)FrickerRon Wrote:(03-31-2013 10:37 AM)T-Town Wrote:2 of our 4 loses where to teams that played a zone defense against us. I think we were out coached in both games, also I think our play over the last month was not good. Our shooting was terrible, lucky the MAC was very weak this year.(03-31-2013 09:46 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote: K State 66 Illinois 48
At K State. Attendance 1717
Wow----not to draw too many conclusions based on just a couple of games, but you have to wonder if (1) UT was really as good as we all thought OR (2) did UT just catch an Illinois team (which it didn't match up well against) that was in a zone (literally and figuratively) for that one night.
I have to favor reason (2) because frankly I thought that UT at home would be superior to the fifth place team from the Big Ten or any other conference for that matter (but then UT did also lost to the fourth seed in the MAC, so who knows?).
Too bad because Savage would probably have had 5000+ in attendance for Kansas State.
I agree totally with your conclusions.
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - temoxley - 04-01-2013 08:01 AM
(03-31-2013 10:36 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote: I guess the Rockets wore 'em out!
If you look at the Illinois stats in the Toledo game it does not appear to be that they played all that great. 33% FG, 28% 3 PT, 65% FT. And they were outrebounded by the Rockets 44/34. And with 17 turnovers. Also their number 2 scorer shot 2/11 from the field. So other than thier post player outperforming our post player I don't think Illinois played all that great. I think it was more a consequence of the Rockets having an off day with 23 turnovers (many of the "silly variety, quote from the coach), and very poor shooting by the perimeter players Naama (4/21), Inma 6/17) and Dola (4/12). And they had 50 of the 68 team field goal attempts. How can Toledo win a game with those stats?
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - MidnightBlueGold - 04-01-2013 09:07 AM
(04-01-2013 06:50 AM)Dwight Wrote: I don't think we should get too wrapped up in the logic of "Illinois beat us, and Kansas State beat Illinois, so Kansas State would have crushed us." I could go a lot of directions in a lot different sports to show the fallacy of that logic, but an easy place to start would be this season in women's basketball, where a mediocre Bowling Green team beat Dayton and Central Michigan by 30 points each. (Oh, yeah, and then lost to Central by 30 after Central lost one of its better players to injury.)
That is a ridiculous statement to make (Illinois beat us, so Kansas St. would crush us).
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - T-Town - 04-01-2013 09:52 AM
(04-01-2013 06:50 AM)Dwight Wrote: I don't think we should get too wrapped up in the logic of "Illinois beat us, and Kansas State beat Illinois, so Kansas State would have crushed us." I could go a lot of directions in a lot different sports to show the fallacy of that logic, but an easy place to start would be this season in women's basketball, where a mediocre Bowling Green team beat Dayton and Central Michigan by 30 points each. (Oh, yeah, and then lost to Central by 30 after Central lost one of its better players to injury.)
Actually your post is only one in this thread that I have seen that has even mentioned any theoretic Kansas St. vs UT match-up outcome, much less stating anything about "crushing us".
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - MidnightBlueGold - 04-01-2013 09:56 AM
(04-01-2013 09:52 AM)T-Town Wrote:(04-01-2013 06:50 AM)Dwight Wrote: I don't think we should get too wrapped up in the logic of "Illinois beat us, and Kansas State beat Illinois, so Kansas State would have crushed us." I could go a lot of directions in a lot different sports to show the fallacy of that logic, but an easy place to start would be this season in women's basketball, where a mediocre Bowling Green team beat Dayton and Central Michigan by 30 points each. (Oh, yeah, and then lost to Central by 30 after Central lost one of its better players to injury.)
Actually your post is only one in this thread that I have seen that has even mentioned any theoretic Kansas St. vs UT match-up, much less stating anything about "crushing us".
Although these posts didn't specifically state that KSU would 'destroy' UT, they did imply it...
(03-31-2013 10:37 AM)T-Town Wrote:(03-31-2013 09:46 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote: K State 66 Illinois 48
At K State. Attendance 1717
Wow----not to draw too many conclusions based on just a couple of games, but you have to wonder if (1) UT was really as good as we all thought OR (2) did UT just catch an Illinois team (which it didn't match up well against) that was in a zone (literally and figuratively) for that one night.
I have to favor reason (2) because frankly I thought that UT at home would be superior to the fifth place team from the Big Ten or any other conference for that matter (but then UT did also loss to the fourth seed in the MAC, so who knows?).
Too bad because Savage would probably have had 5000+ in attendance for Kansas State.
(03-31-2013 10:36 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote: Well this just goes to show Toledo really was just a WNIT sweet 16 type of team this year...despite their impressive record.
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - Toledo Football 1st - 04-01-2013 10:00 AM
(04-01-2013 08:01 AM)temoxley Wrote:(03-31-2013 10:36 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote: I guess the Rockets wore 'em out!
If you look at the Illinois stats in the Toledo game it does not appear to be that they played all that great. 33% FG, 28% 3 PT, 65% FT. And they were outrebounded by the Rockets 44/34. And with 17 turnovers. Also their number 2 scorer shot 2/11 from the field. So other than thier post player outperforming our post player I don't think Illinois played all that great. I think it was more a consequence of the Rockets having an off day with 23 turnovers (many of the "silly variety, quote from the coach), and very poor shooting by the perimeter players Naama (4/21), Inma 6/17) and Dola (4/12). And they had 50 of the 68 team field goal attempts. How can Toledo win a game with those stats?
It looked to me like the Rockets, unfortunately, had a bad night. Couple that with an Illinois squad that was either extremely well prepared for Toledo defensively, or has a style of defense that caught the Rockets without a clue. No matter what the Rockets tried to do there was always (well almost) one or more bodies in the way. The Rockets put forth an admirable effort, but the shots weren't falling with way too many of them bouncing off the underside of the hoop.
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - T-Town - 04-01-2013 10:21 AM
(04-01-2013 09:56 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: Although these posts didn't specifically state that KSU would 'destroy' UT, they did imply it...
There is a subtle but important difference between IMPLICATION and INFERENCE -----the statements implied that maybe the Rockets were not playing great ball in the 2 loses incurred in their last four games of the season. You and Dwight are the ones who inferred that those statements meant that Kansas St would have crushed the Rockets---which, of course is a POV that is impossible to verify or refute because that game was never played.
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - T-Town - 04-01-2013 10:27 AM
(04-01-2013 08:01 AM)temoxley Wrote:(03-31-2013 10:36 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote: I guess the Rockets wore 'em out!
If you look at the Illinois stats in the Toledo game it does not appear to be that they played all that great. 33% FG, 28% 3 PT, 65% FT. And they were outrebounded by the Rockets 44/34. And with 17 turnovers. Also their number 2 scorer shot 2/11 from the field. So other than thier post player outperforming our post player I don't think Illinois played all that great. I think it was more a consequence of the Rockets having an off day with 23 turnovers (many of the "silly variety, quote from the coach), and very poor shooting by the perimeter players Naama (4/21), Inma 6/17) and Dola (4/12). And they had 50 of the 68 team field goal attempts. How can Toledo win a game with those stats?
UT has lived by their defense all year and I don't think anybody is arguing that UT's defense didn't play well enough to beat Illinois. Unfortunately Illinois also brought an outstanding defensive effort to the game.
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - temoxley - 04-01-2013 10:37 AM
(04-01-2013 10:00 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:(04-01-2013 08:01 AM)temoxley Wrote:(03-31-2013 10:36 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote: I guess the Rockets wore 'em out!
If you look at the Illinois stats in the Toledo game it does not appear to be that they played all that great. 33% FG, 28% 3 PT, 65% FT. And they were outrebounded by the Rockets 44/34. And with 17 turnovers. Also their number 2 scorer shot 2/11 from the field. So other than thier post player outperforming our post player I don't think Illinois played all that great. I think it was more a consequence of the Rockets having an off day with 23 turnovers (many of the "silly variety, quote from the coach), and very poor shooting by the perimeter players Naama (4/21), Inma 6/17) and Dola (4/12). And they had 50 of the 68 team field goal attempts. How can Toledo win a game with those stats?
It looked to me like the Rockets, unfortunately, had a bad night. Couple that with an Illinois squad that was either extremely well prepared for Toledo defensively, or has a style of defense that caught the Rockets without a clue. No matter what the Rockets tried to do there was always (well almost) one or more bodies in the way. The Rockets put forth an admirable effort, but the shots weren't falling with way too many of them bouncing off the underside of the hoop.
I am not sure that there wasn't just some good fortune for Illinois in this game. I am pretty sure that they did not start out in a zone. But they had 6 or 7 fouls and two starters with 2 fouls each within tne first 4-5 minutes. I think that they switched to the zone to protect players who were getting in foul trouble. Then they saw that the zone was shutting down Toledo's offense, or the Toledo perimeter players were not hitting shots so they stayed with it. Can anyone confirm whether Illinois BEGAN THE GAME with a zone?
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - temoxley - 04-01-2013 10:48 AM
I also didn't think that the Rockets actually played their best against Youngstown State They had 22 turnovers in that game also. And Dola (3/9) and Naama (5/15) didn't shoot well there either. What saved them was a big rebounding edge (46/26), a monster game from Inma, and maybe the best defensive effort I saw near the end of the season. Oh ya, and they played against an opponent who really played a poor game.
RE: WNIT Kansas State Crushes Illinois - Toledo Football 1st - 04-01-2013 01:32 PM
(04-01-2013 10:37 AM)temoxley Wrote: I am not sure that there wasn't just some good fortune for Illinois in this game. I am pretty sure that they did not start out in a zone. But they had 6 or 7 fouls and two starters with 2 fouls each within tne first 4-5 minutes. I think that they switched to the zone to protect players who were getting in foul trouble. Then they saw that the zone was shutting down Toledo's offense, or the Toledo perimeter players were not hitting shots so they stayed with it. Can anyone confirm whether Illinois BEGAN THE GAME with a zone?
Gosh, all the intercepted passes, the steals, the stuffed shots, the tie ups; I don't believe even CMU stymied the Rockets like that, did they? I think that comes from a superb defensive plan and execution, not luck. I was hoping that early foul trouble would play in or favor, but it didn't seem to. They managed the situation very well. As far as the zone, weren't they kind of pressing early on, thus all the intercepted passes? I can't remember for sure, I was too excited. LOL!