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Frank Martin paid his former players - ctipton - 03-26-2012 11:24 PM
Frank Martin paid his former players
Updated: March 26, 2012, 1:22 PM ET
ESPN.com news services
Kansas State coach Frank Martin, who spent seven years at the helm of three high school teams in the 1990s before joining Northeastern University as an assistant coach, says he regularly paid collegiate players who had played for him in high school when they had nowhere else to turn.
Martin, speaking during Sunday's broadcast of the NCAA tournament on CBS, for which he was working as an analyst, seemed to be making a case for better compensating collegiate players in need as he defended Kansas State senior Jamar Samuels, who was held out of the Wildcats' final game because of an eligibility concern.
"I coached 16 years in the same inner city in Miami that I grew up in. Do you know how much money I sent to kids that played for me in high school when they were in college because I knew where they came from?" Martin said, according to a transcript of the broadcast published by the Kansas City Star. "I knew they didn't have a father figure."
Martin, who the Star reported Monday will become South Carolina's next coach, citing an unamed source close to the coach, has sided with Samuels, saying he wasn't in the wrong.
Curtis Malone, the founder of the DC Assault AAU organization, has said he sent money to Samuels before this year's NCAA tournament but said it wasn't an impermissible benefit because he already had developed a relationship with Samuels and his mother. A source told the Topeka Capital-Journal that Samuels received $200 from Malone.
"Jamar walked into an unfortunate situation, because like I've told everybody, he didn't ask an agent for money," Martin said during Sunday's broadcast. "He didn't ask a booster for money. He didn't take advantage of being a student-athlete, because he asked someone he met (before) he got into an NCAA institution for money.
"He asked a person who has been a father figure in his life since he was about 12 years of age. What is he supposed to do?"
The Wildcats were unable to make up for Samuels' absence in their round of 32 loss to Syracuse, falling 75-59. Even with Samuels, who averaged 10.0 points and 6.6 rebounds this season, the Orange likely still had too much for Martin's squad.
"I'm not going to tell you who they were," Martin said of the former high school players, "but I sent them a lot of money over the years to make sure they could take their girlfriend out to the movies, make sure they could wash their clothes and do all the things that scholarship money don't cover. They don't have an option.
"It's not like they can work while they're in college," Martin added. "They can't find ways to make money. When there is no money at home, who is going to help these guys?"
Martin also addressed media rumblings from over the weekend that he was a candidate to take the head coaching job at South Carolina.
On Monday, Martin's agent, Richard Katz, told the Kansas City Star "we have had conversations" with South Carolina but stopped short of confirming a deal was in the works. The State of Columbia, S.C., has also reported Martin's pending hire.
The Gamecocks fired coach Darrin Horn earlier this month after his team finished 10-21.
"In the age of social media that we live in right now, it's crazy," Martin said Sunday. "I was scheduled to be at a press conference today in South Carolina and I was sitting watching a show in New York City last night. And obviously I'm sitting here with you guys today, so it's. ... The stuff that gets out these days, I look at it as a compliment that we're doing our job the right way at Kansas State that these sort of things get out."
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2012/story/_/id/7737800/kansas-state-wildcats-frank-martin-paid-former-prep-players
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - WarningSigns - 03-26-2012 11:42 PM
Headline is a load of crap. Paid is not the right word to use.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - @ES Trader - 03-27-2012 06:07 AM
Good for Frank Martin. You have to feel for these kids. They need to be paid more as the cost of living increases. Not only that but hammer the people and schools who abuse it.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - SuperFlyBCat - 03-27-2012 06:36 AM
They can work while they are in college. Full ride athletes are allowed to work. No problem with friends, family, former HS coaches sending money to college players.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - Skilly McRailnob - 03-27-2012 06:37 AM
seems like most people are on Martin's side.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - Bearcat Otto - 03-27-2012 07:41 AM
(03-27-2012 06:36 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote: They can work while they are in college. Full ride athletes are allowed to work. No problem with friends, family, former HS coaches sending money to college players.
I didn't think that students athletes could work during their sports season.
I also thought that was an NCAA rule.
Am I wrong?
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - rath v2.0 - 03-27-2012 07:45 AM
I understand Martin's position on the policy. But I don't understand his being angry at KSU. If its a violation, no matter how stupid the rule, you have to take action.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - Bearhawkeye - 03-27-2012 08:03 AM
(03-27-2012 06:36 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote: No problem with friends, family, former HS coaches sending money to college players.
At face value, I completely agree especially when you consider this isn't an issue for a normal student.
On the other hand, it's also not hard to see how easily this could be manipulated especially when it comes to defining "friends" who also might have loyalties to other individuals and/or institutions. The NCAA justifiably receives a lot of criticism, but it's worth remembering how complicated some of the issues they face are.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - OneUChoopsfan - 03-27-2012 08:30 AM
NCAA rule number one.
If you are violating an NCAA rule, keep your mouth shut about it until you are for-sure permanently out of the business.
-----------------------------
I am thankful Martin is not our coach.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - Ring of Black - 03-27-2012 09:37 AM
I wonder if Jarr and Snart still own any purple gear
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - BigDawg - 03-27-2012 09:55 AM
A rule is a rule. Definitely can't allow this to happen as the rich will get richer. I understand the issue, but these kids get a huge scholarship which is big money. There is a reason most athletic programs are in the red or close to it, because only basketball and football bring in any money and they have to pay for all sports programs. You can't have coaches or others paying money, even if their intentions are good. How can you tell between that and bad intentions?
I do not have issues with the proposal to give athletes a little more money to help pay for other expenses to cover the full cost of their scholarship and give them a little money to live on, especially since they cannot work during the season, but it needs to be a set figure for all schools so there is no chance of extra kickbacks or the have-nots being at an unfair disadvantage.
Those that say they should be getting paid (Some are talking about hundreds of dollars a month) I don't agree with since then you really have to pay all athletes, which would get crazy expensive and result in a ton of cuts. But a few hundred dollars a year (Or a thousand, whatever is fair) to help cover the entire cost of the scholarship makes sense. They are getting a free education that is valued at like $20,000-$50,000 a year. I would have loved to get that lucky instead of taking out a huge student loan I spent 10 years struggling to pay off.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - Bearcat Otto - 03-27-2012 10:18 AM
The article doesn't say that Martin paid his players at KSU. It says that he sent checks to players from his high school team that went on to play collegiate basketball after high school.
Some might think that this opens the door for graft down the road. But right now it is legal. No issue here.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - SuperFlyBCat - 03-27-2012 11:19 AM
(03-27-2012 07:41 AM)Bearcat Otto Wrote:(03-27-2012 06:36 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote: They can work while they are in college. Full ride athletes are allowed to work. No problem with friends, family, former HS coaches sending money to college players.
I didn't think that students athletes could work during their sports season.
I also thought that was an NCAA rule.
Am I wrong?
During the season it would almost impossible to have a part time job, not enough time. In the off season not only are you allowed to work but there is plenty of time.
When Levar Glover played football for UC he had a part time job at Walgreens, and he would hustle to practice when work was over. He carried a full class load of 15-17 hours, played ball, worked part time and then got custody of his younger brother he moved in with him. His brother might have been 10-12 years old at the time.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - bearcats23 - 03-27-2012 12:19 PM
I was under the impression that full scholarship athletes are not allowed to have jobs.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - levydl - 03-27-2012 02:04 PM
(03-27-2012 10:18 AM)Bearcat Otto Wrote: The article doesn't say that Martin paid his players at KSU. It says that he sent checks to players from his high school team that went on to play collegiate basketball after high school.
Some might think that this opens the door for graft down the road. But right now it is legal. No issue here.
Isn't that exactly what got Jamar Samuels in trouble?
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - subflea - 03-27-2012 02:24 PM
(03-27-2012 12:19 PM)bearcats23 Wrote: I was under the impression that full scholarship athletes are not allowed to have jobs.
They are allowed to work during the school year, but they are not permitted to make more than what the school determines to be the cost of incidental expenses, which for most schools is between $1200 and $2000 dollars an academic year. During breaks and in the summer there are no restrictions on what they can earn as long as they are not found to be making more than should be because of their status as an athlete.
The rules were changed in 2007. Prior to that full scholarship athletes were not permitted to work during the school year.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - Bruce Monnin - 03-27-2012 06:28 PM
(03-27-2012 02:24 PM)subflea Wrote:(03-27-2012 12:19 PM)bearcats23 Wrote: I was under the impression that full scholarship athletes are not allowed to have jobs.
They are allowed to work during the school year, but they are not permitted to make more than what the school determines to be the cost of incidental expenses, which for most schools is between $1200 and $2000 dollars an academic year. During breaks and in the summer there are no restrictions on what they can earn as long as they are not found to be making more than should be because of their status as an athlete.
The rules were changed in 2007. Prior to that full scholarship athletes were not permitted to work during the school year.
Co-op students were allowed to work. Were co-op terms all considered to be Breaks or summer?
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - subflea - 03-27-2012 07:30 PM
Since they were not attending classes during their co-op quarters I would think so.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - bearcat54 - 03-27-2012 10:35 PM
(03-27-2012 09:55 AM)BigDawg Wrote: A rule is a rule. Definitely can't allow this to happen as the rich will get richer. I understand the issue, but these kids get a huge scholarship which is big money. There is a reason most athletic programs are in the red or close to it, because only basketball and football bring in any money and they have to pay for all sports programs. You can't have coaches or others paying money, even if their intentions are good. How can you tell between that and bad intentions?
I do not have issues with the proposal to give athletes a little more money to help pay for other expenses to cover the full cost of their scholarship and give them a little money to live on, especially since they cannot work during the season, but it needs to be a set figure for all schools so there is no chance of extra kickbacks or the have-nots being at an unfair disadvantage.
Those that say they should be getting paid (Some are talking about hundreds of dollars a month) I don't agree with since then you really have to pay all athletes, which would get crazy expensive and result in a ton of cuts. But a few hundred dollars a year (Or a thousand, whatever is fair) to help cover the entire cost of the scholarship makes sense. They are getting a free education that is valued at like $20,000-$50,000 a year. I would have loved to get that lucky instead of taking out a huge student loan I spent 10 years struggling to pay off.
also, if the NCAA put a limit like 300 a month towards the student athletes, the Kentucky's and Ohio State's , etc would pay 20,000 a month to keep their recruiting edges. Connecticut would probably hire ex Russian olympian centers for theirs.
RE: Frank Martin paid his former players - Captain Bearcat - 03-28-2012 08:05 AM
(03-27-2012 11:19 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote: During the season it would almost impossible to have a part time job, not enough time. In the off season not only are you allowed to work but there is plenty of time.
When Levar Glover played football for UC he had a part time job at Walgreens, and he would hustle to practice when work was over. He carried a full class load of 15-17 hours, played ball, worked part time and then got custody of his younger brother he moved in with him. His brother might have been 10-12 years old at the time.
My wife was a college athlete, and she had a job year-round during college. In fact, between part-time jobs, a 1/2 academic scholarship, and co-op, she didn't have to get any loans at all, and she was at a very expensive private school. It was D-3, but she put in just as much time as a D-1 athlete, guaranteed.
So it is possible, but to be realistic the vast majority of people just don't have the work ethic.