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+---- Thread: ND & FB split (/thread-51862.html)
- templefootballfan - 07-17-2005 09:21 AM
I never heard ND opinion about the split of FB & BB schools. ND could have cut thier own Bowl deals, but it became clear that ND stood with B-E in Bowl negotations. What side does ND aline with, or is ND holding this conf together. Now I agree FB 8 can grow into strong conf. B-E has to protect itself for the future. In the 90's consence opinion was ACC would not expand, paid the most money & NC schools did not want to split BB tourn tickets {You have to be 100,000 doner to get tourn tickets at NC. NC fans donate 5,000 to Clemson for thier tickets}.
- Pittusmc - 07-17-2005 10:13 AM
IMO ND is doing its best to keep the BE together. They have mentioned in past articles that it was "in their best interest" to keep the BE together. To me, that means no split. I just have a feeling that it is going to be harder then most people think for the BE to split. ND seems to have more power in a conference then they dont belong to and with ND's new deal to play 3 BE teams a year in the future....leads me to think...there is more than what we know to this deal. IMO of coarse.
- Jackson1011 - 07-17-2005 10:54 AM
Quote:I never heard ND opinion about the split of FB & BB schools. ND could have cut thier own Bowl deals, but it became clear that ND stood with B-E in Bowl negotations. What side does ND aline with, or is ND holding this conf together. Now I agree FB 8 can grow into strong conf. B-E has to protect itself for the future. In the 90's consence opinion was ACC would not expand, paid the most money & NC schools did not want to split BB tourn tickets {You have to be 100,000 doner to get tourn tickets at NC. NC fans donate 5,000 to Clemson for thier tickets}.
-- That's the million dollar question...I don't think anyone knows how ND will react if the split happens....There is bowl tie ins, more money and better olympic sports with the football schools but ND and the bball onlys have the Catholic tie, the Irish have history with Marqutte and Depaul and many of the bball onlys are in eastern urban areas where ND has a ton of alums....Personally I would say ND is leaning towards staying with the bball onlys but it could go either way
-- BTW....I think a lot of us on this board would be happy to see Temple come back as an all sports member of the new league if you guys can get your football program on solid footing again...Is temple finally committed to fielding a competitive football team?
Jackson
- templefootballfan - 07-17-2005 02:07 PM
Even when Temple makes good move it blows up on them. Temple had PSU to open up Linc. Eagles played hardball & game got switched back to happy Valley. Late Aug agreement came to late to sell tickets. Open Linc vs Vill. Huge walk up crowd could not get in stadium, Linc had small ticket window. I was shocked Temple got kick out of B-E. Tought they might offer them reduced share of revenue. every conf has bottom feeders, Temple was perfect bottom feeder for B-E because they were associate member & had Phila TV market. They only thing I did't understand was Mia talking about SOS with Temple & had Fla A&M on sch. Most B-E schools have same sch flaws.
- L-yes - 07-17-2005 02:21 PM
This whole question is entirely dependant on the maturing strength of the 8 members. If the Big East manages to produce a few legit contenders it will not have to depend on Notre Dame for post season negotiations. I think this is a symbiotic relationship right now. It benefits both parties though the Big East can only strenghten its position. Notre Dame is about as strong as they can get.
- Brick City Pirate - 07-17-2005 03:15 PM
L-Yes, How in the world is Notre Dame as strong as they can get? The Irish have sucked over the past 20 years or so. If ND starts going 9-2 to 11-0 consistently, I'd say their position would have strenghtened.
- Guest - 07-17-2005 03:16 PM
L-yes Wrote:This whole question is entirely dependant on the maturing strength of the 8 members. If the Big East manages to produce a few legit contenders it will not have to depend on Notre Dame for post season negotiations. I think this is a symbiotic relationship right now. It benefits both parties though the Big East can only strenghten its position. Notre Dame is about as strong as they can get.That is what is so bad about the Big East..that it has to depend on a non-member and a new member that has never played a down in the league to stand on it's feet.....pathetic......
- Pitinoville - 07-17-2005 03:37 PM
Same could be said for C-DOA huh? Im sure Bowl execs are just waiting for that USM-UL Lafayette matchup in the New Orleans Bowl. Dont worry, you can watch Big Brother (The Cards) play in a BCS bowl.
- Cat's_Claw - 07-17-2005 04:21 PM
O.G. Eagle Wrote:That is what is so bad about the Big East..that it has to depend on a non-member and a new member that has never played a down in the league to stand on it's feet.....pathetic......
Yet C-USA is depending on new members who have never played to help them get bowls geographically, and to help them on the national scene. They're also depending on keeping their top bowl on the fact that one of their teams happens to play in that building and also depending on Marshall's past reputation, even though Marshall has never played a down in C-USA, along with UTEP. Wouldn't that be categorized as being pathetic?
- L-yes - 07-17-2005 04:33 PM
Brick City Pirate Wrote:L-Yes, How in the world is Notre Dame as strong as they can get? The Irish have sucked over the past 20 years or so. If ND starts going 9-2 to 11-0 consistently, I'd say their position would have strenghtened.Lets establish a few facts:
Notre Dame is an independent, they have a network television deal and access to BCS bowls standing alone. You tell me how they will get stronger.
If they win a national title in the near future how much will really change? Will they add a Notre Dame national television network to broadcast apart from the big 3 networks? Will they start their own division of college athletics? Conversely if they continue to suck how much could change?
- JIM15068 - 07-17-2005 05:11 PM
Notre Dame will go with the basketball schools, I hope. We don't need the dissension they would cause as a non-FB member. ND is only interested in their own survival. In everything but football, the BE has been their savior. That's the only reason they'd like to maintain the status quo.
Jim
- Cat's_Claw - 07-17-2005 05:33 PM
Brick City Pirate Wrote:L-Yes, How in the world is Notre Dame as strong as they can get? The Irish have sucked over the past 20 years or so. If ND starts going 9-2 to 11-0 consistently, I'd say their position would have strenghtened.Notre Dame is as powerful as they will get. They had a pretty good team Willingham's first year or so and nothing really changed. They could go undefeated the the next 5 years what changes? They wouldn't work with the Big East? Doubtful since they need a home for their non-revenue sports and their basketball programs.
- omniorange - 07-17-2005 05:45 PM
Quote:Brick City Pirate Posted on Jul 17 2005, 03:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L-Yes, How in the world is Notre Dame as strong as they can get? The Irish have sucked over the past 20 years or so. If ND starts going 9-2 to 11-0 consistently, I'd say their position would have strenghtened.
I think what L-Yes may have been attempting to say is that even with a so-so record, ND's position is as strong as it can get - meaning football independence, separate TV contract, getting BCS monies regardless of being in a BCS bowl game (the same amount as C-USA, MW, and the others will receive if they don't make it to a BCS Bowl game); still desireable by non-BCS bowls.
So, yes technically, while their record can indeed improve, and probably will with Weis as coach and the eventual lessening of the schedule, their position of power isn't likely to get any stronger than it currently is.
The BE teams, however, can improve their position of power by proving themselves on the field and by improving their travel to bowl games. Will they? That's the question.
Cheers,
Neil
- Brick City Pirate - 07-18-2005 07:02 AM
Omni, A stronger Notre Dame would make the Irish even more desirable to the bowls which could adversely affect the Big East. You already see how the bowls want easier access to invite Notre Dame. There could come a point when the bowls will not back off from having the choice of Notre Dame over the rest of the Big East schools no matter what the record.
- omniorange - 07-18-2005 09:33 AM
Quote:Brick City Pirate Posted on Jul 18 2005, 07:08 AM Omni, A stronger Notre Dame would make the Irish even more desirable to the bowls which could adversely affect the Big East. You already see how the bowls want easier access to invite Notre Dame. There could come a point when the bowls will not back off from having the choice of Notre Dame over the rest of the Big East schools no matter what the record.
Brick City,
A stronger Notre Dame with the BCS expanding by two teams most likely results in a 9-2 ND team or above in a BCS Bowl. Bank on it.
The only ND team that threatens a Big East bid in the Gator/Sun Bowl is an 8-3 one because a 7-4 isn't likely to be within 1 game of the BE #2 (and if it were, then the BE doesn't deserve the slot anyway).
But thanks for your genuine concern for the Big East. Somehow, on those rare occasions when ND steals the BE #2 bowl (the only Bowl worth getting upset about - ND stealing any of the others, like the Insight last year - doesn't hurt the BE), I'm sure you'll find the teams crying all the way to bank when they cash their BCS check.
Cheers,
Neil
- L-yes - 07-18-2005 10:38 AM
A very important fact that some folks seem to be having a problem wrapping their brains around is that Notre Dame is already the most desireable football program to have in your bowl game, period. In the universe there is no program that is a bigger TV draw, has as massive a fan base and will put fannies in seats more quickly. How Notre Dame can improve on these strengths is beyond me.
- Bearcat T - 07-18-2005 11:56 AM
I do not think there will be a split. I think if there is Notre Dame will go with the football schools. They have little competition from the others for all other sports. Their is a huge facility difference between the All sports schools and the Basketball only schools. I think the positives of staying as one outweigh the negatives that we have discussed before. The biggest item is will everyone be ok
with the number of teams to the NCAA. If the football sschools feel slighted then they may go for the split either way.
- Wilkie01 - 07-18-2005 06:56 PM
Let's say you are correct about ND and Temple (Jackson). how would this Big East Look:
Northern Division
1. UConn
2. Syracuse
3. Rutgers
4. Temple
5. Pittsburgh
6. West Virginia
Southern Division
1. Notre Dame
2. Cincinnati
3. Louisville
4. Memphis
5, South Florida
6. East Carolina or Central Florida
- Jackson1011 - 07-18-2005 08:03 PM
Quote:Let's say you are correct about ND and Temple (Jackson). how would this Big East Look:
Northern Division
1. UConn
2. Syracuse
3. Rutgers
4. Temple
5. Pittsburgh
6. West Virginia
Southern Division
1. Notre Dame
2. Cincinnati
3. Louisville
4. Memphis
5, South Florida
6. East Carolina or Central Florida
-- I don't think the all sports league (if there is an all sports league) will go to 12....However the posts of Krocker Krapp and others have convinced me there may be some advantages to Temple....some of the BE football schools consider bball expsoure in Philly to be vital to there bball programs....and it helps protect the all sports league from increased exposure ACC hoops will have in the northeast from there outpost in Boston
-- It makes sense to me that if the BE football schools produce two more solid football programs between now and 2010....bring in Temple to help with TV exposure in the northeast and hoops (also Philly could be the site of the league headquarters/conference tourney) and UCF to be a travel partner with USF (in other words I'm on board with Krocker Krapp's plan if we enough football quality by then to warrent going to 10)
Jackson
- ClairtonPanther - 07-21-2005 06:07 PM
i'm w/ jackson on this. i think the combo of temple, memphis and ecu is pretty much all the big east really needs. the media market of philly is way too important to lose w/ the lost of villanova goin w/ the bball schools.