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+----- Thread: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! (/thread-510496.html)
New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - Buccaneerlover - 08-28-2011 06:19 PM
0-2 to start the women's communist kickball season off! Terrible.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - BucComeback - 08-28-2011 07:51 PM
(08-28-2011 06:19 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote: 0-2 to start the women's communist kickball season off! Terrible.
What a pointless post, but maybe you will start a new thread when they start winning, which they will do.
Sayer's has an excellent background and is well qualified. It just takes time for a new coach to change things in any sport communist kickball, football, basketball, etc. etc.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - BucComeback - 08-28-2011 07:53 PM
Oh and congrats to the team for just beating a good Radford team 1-0 away from home.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - GoBucsGo - 08-28-2011 09:04 PM
Note he didn't mention the men's soccer team. Get over the hatred of soccer. It didn't take football away. It costs a hell of a lot less, even with a stadium. Time to move on.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - Buccaneerlover - 08-28-2011 09:13 PM
ETSU spends more on that crap that anyone at this level. The programs are a WASTE and my disdain for it won't ever end. But atleast with "The pitch" being in place, the current home stands will make a nice visitors section for a football stadium.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - GoBucsGo - 08-28-2011 09:22 PM
If they're going to have the sport, spend enough on it for it to be successful. I have no idea how it compares to other schools who have soccer. It's a nice venue, but so what?
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - Buccaneerlover - 08-29-2011 08:23 AM
They're overspending to get garbage results on the women's side, and sure the men's team has been successful but is it REALLY WORTH what they're having to overspend to get it to where it is? I just don't believe it is.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - TheShadow - 08-29-2011 08:29 AM
Buclover, we normally agree on a lot...and I'm all about placing blame and complaints where they are deserved. But your original post just wreaks of pithyness and spite. It's not Sayers' fault we dont' have a football team, I don't even know if he was in this country when the ax dropped. He is just trying to do his job and has a grand total of 3 games under his belt. I congratulate him for his first win, and hope to see many more. I'm for the success of ANY ETSU sport...those we have now and the ones that will return in the future. The two are NOT mutually exclusive.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - Buccaneerlover - 08-29-2011 09:59 AM
Very true, but keep in mind women's soccer was brought on campus at the cost of ten football scholarships. The key to that is ETSU claimed they had to do it to be Title IX compliant, which was a farse. They chose to the proportionality option on Title IX compliance vs. the other two rungs on that. ETSU is one of very few Division I schools in the country that has chosen that option and it's ridiculous. They could've gone with the other two, been compliant in the other two without ever starting a soccer program of any kind and the NCAA wouldn't have ever said a word to ETSU. And now in this day and age of Ponzi Scheme boosters providing drugs, money and hookers to players, they don't have time for D-1 mid majors anyway.
All that said, it's his first year, he'll get a chance and maybe they will succeed, but spending the amount of money that gets spent on ALL of the olympic, non-revenue sports is simply absurd. And when I say non-revenue, I mean sports that there is no realistic chance of making any real money at the gate, concession or souvenir.
Lastly, if ETSU is going to spend that kind of money on those sports, as a fan I expect RESULTS. Not just wins and conference championships, but deep runs in the NCAA Tournaments in their respective sport. I don't blame the current soccer coaches for football's demise, but they have a great facility and a great budget, and I expect results.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - LetsgoBucs - 08-29-2011 11:28 AM
Lover, your post smacks of ignorance and sexism. By your definition ETSU should just cut the athletic department. There is practically zero chance that any sport sponsored by ETSU as a mid-major, will ever generate a profit. (Maybe we should only have a men's golf team????) EVERY sport at this level is subsidized by the university. NO sport stands on its own. No one would be eligible to compete here with your standards.
The fact that you have a problem with equal scholarships for men and women is terrible. Title IX is not simply a piece of legislation that needs to be complied with. It was a necessary measure to prevent people with mindsets like yours from denying women opportunities because you don't see their value. Treating women equitably is something the institution should do because it's right, not simply because it is the requirement of the law. They didn't have to take scholarships from to give them to women's sports. They chose to do that rather than create more opportunities for women. Title IX is not to blame.
"Lastly, if ETSU is going to spend that kind of money on those sports, as a fan I expect RESULTS. Not just wins and conference championships, but deep runs in the NCAA Tournaments in their respective sport."
Based on your expectations quoted above, football deserved to be cut because they were a failure. On the BFF website under the history of football, they list five memorable moments. Five! One of those was a conference championship. In 1938. One of those was a deep run in the NCAA playoffs. The others were just wins, which you don't count as listed above.
I hope ETSU adds football back. I think it will happen at some point. But sacrificing all the other sports at the altar of football is not necessary and I would argue, plain wrong. If you are going to criticize all other sports performance based on your ridiculously high expectations, you should at least look back on the history of ETSU football with the same disappointment, disdain, and anger.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - Buccaneerlover - 08-29-2011 02:20 PM
It absolutely has NOTHING to do with sexism and absolutely nothing to do with generating a profit. I get that Olympic sports WILL NEVER generate any kind of revenue, and at ETSU even basketball probably won't generate revenue. I've said all along that the spending needs to match the level that the conference it competes in. That's all I'm asking for, and if they're going to outspend on sports like soccer, then they damn sure need to win on a bigger level than just winning the A-Sun. That goes for men's and women's sports.
And yes, if it makes me sexist that I don't think women's soccer should take away from the sport that is the front porch of a university then so be it. American football drives the bus. It's cute that you say that given that when I lived up there I was one of the 50 people who went to Lady Buc games regularly outside of the people WHO HAD TO BE THERE.
Next off, ETSU football didn't have a championship level budget. They only had 53 scholarships to give vs. 63. They didn't have the budget in football of a Montana, JMU, App State, and all the other teams that have consistently been top 10 programs in football at the I-AA/FCS level. So that comment shows that you're doing more than servicing the needs of Dave Mullins. What does he do, give you a stale cookie and a pat on the head?
I never said in the post that the sport needs to stand on its' own. I said if ETSU is going to spend the kind of money it is spending on soccer that they need to win and win big. If not, then changes need to be made.
Lastly, it is RIDICULOUS that ETSU uses proportionality when nobody else does. It goes back to that whole wasting money thing on something that nobody else is doing, and quite frankly the NCAA could give two $#!ts that ETSU is using that. They simply smile and say okay whatever. And yes, I do look on ETSU football's past with aggravation, but not just football, the whole picture. Top to bottom they didn't get the job done. Changes should've been made to get butts in the seats, win games and generate interest.
If ETSU were at the Appalachian/Montana level of winning at FCS football we'd be on our way to a better conference, and ETSU wouldn't be having a book fair for homecoming. They'd have 30,000 alums on campus with their kids and checkbooks. Instead, I'll be somewhere watching football.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - buckys - 08-29-2011 05:03 PM
Well said Lover.
I've tried to point out the differences in our funding methods and the woeful way the football program was treated, but you have a group of people at ETSU that puts out a bunch of hogwash and the media, students, fans and community continue to believe it.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - Seattle Bucs - 08-29-2011 06:29 PM
(08-29-2011 09:59 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote: Lastly, if ETSU is going to spend that kind of money on those sports, as a fan I expect RESULTS. Not just wins and conference championships, but deep runs in the NCAA Tournaments in their respective sport. I don't blame the current soccer coaches for football's demise, but they have a great facility and a great budget, and I expect results.
I like the way you think. When can we drop baseball and basketball?
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - Buccaneerlover - 08-29-2011 07:38 PM
I'm not asking to drop sports altogether. If they're not winning, make changes. Heads need to roll. Baseball gets a pass having to play in the ghetto at Cardinal park. That place is a rathole. Huge recruiting disadvantage. And basketball? That's the only sport that has a remote chance to generate any kind of interest in athletics and private support for the university. That said, I get aggravated that they don't win more, but then again, our basketball games are played in a dome built for football and track. They're not playing in a shiny new multimillion dollar facility.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - LetsgoBucs - 08-30-2011 04:01 PM
(08-29-2011 02:20 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote: It absolutely has NOTHING to do with sexism and absolutely nothing to do with generating a profit. I get that Olympic sports WILL NEVER generate any kind of revenue, and at ETSU even basketball probably won't generate revenue. I've said all along that the spending needs to match the level that the conference it competes in. That's all I'm asking for, and if they're going to outspend on sports like soccer, then they damn sure need to win on a bigger level than just winning the A-Sun. That goes for men's and women's sports.
And yes, if it makes me sexist that I don't think women's soccer should take away from the sport that is the front porch of a university then so be it. American football drives the bus. It's cute that you say that given that when I lived up there I was one of the 50 people who went to Lady Buc games regularly outside of the people WHO HAD TO BE THERE.
Next off, ETSU football didn't have a championship level budget. They only had 53 scholarships to give vs. 63. They didn't have the budget in football of a Montana, JMU, App State, and all the other teams that have consistently been top 10 programs in football at the I-AA/FCS level. So that comment shows that you're doing more than servicing the needs of Dave Mullins. What does he do, give you a stale cookie and a pat on the head?
I never said in the post that the sport needs to stand on its' own. I said if ETSU is going to spend the kind of money it is spending on soccer that they need to win and win big. If not, then changes need to be made.
Lastly, it is RIDICULOUS that ETSU uses proportionality when nobody else does. It goes back to that whole wasting money thing on something that nobody else is doing, and quite frankly the NCAA could give two $#!ts that ETSU is using that. They simply smile and say okay whatever. And yes, I do look on ETSU football's past with aggravation, but not just football, the whole picture. Top to bottom they didn't get the job done. Changes should've been made to get butts in the seats, win games and generate interest.
If ETSU were at the Appalachian/Montana level of winning at FCS football we'd be on our way to a better conference, and ETSU wouldn't be having a book fair for homecoming. They'd have 30,000 alums on campus with their kids and checkbooks. Instead, I'll be somewhere watching football.
What overspending? Back up your statements. Yes, every sport is at or near the top of the conference in spending. Don't you expect that in the ASun? Where do you want ETSU to fund their sports? At the Upstate level? At the middle of the pack with JU? I would assume most fans of ETSU would expect the programs to be funded in the top 3 or 4 in the conference.
You are right that some sports have larger budgets than most at our conference level. I would say those are tennis, golf, and women's soccer. Tennis and golf have multiple conference championships and NCAA tournament success. So they've met your criteria. And let's also be real, they have budgets higher than the ASun, but nowhere to close to the level of programs that contend on a national level. We are getting a pretty good bang for the buck for those programs, if you want to evaluate it based on conference championships and NCAA tournament wins.
Now women's soccer hasn't performed at the level of their funding. I think that's why you see a new coach in place. Also, they haven't had a decent budget, scholarship limit, and facility for years. Those are all recent events. They haven't improved with those added advantages and now there is a new head coach. That's pretty much what you say should happen.
Now when you look at men's soccer, those are dollars being maximized. They have an okay budget, by no means excessive as you seem to believe, and they have had great success. A conference championship in only four years, and I would also point out that men's soccer is arguably the highest quality sport in the ASun, so winning a soccer championship is arguably the most difficult of all the sports, is very impressive. When you compare an operating budget for men's soccer of $64k to say the College of Charleston, who we competed against in the NCAA tournament it's not close. CofC has an operating budget of $158k. Yet you think we spend too much??? (These are numbers from the dept. of education data. The most recent year reported is 09, so it's likely increased for both squads). And in the new poll the men's soccer program is number 7 in the south region poll. In their short existence, they've already made an impact in the soccer world.
I think it's silly that you are complaining about certain sports having a reasonable budget to compete against schools better than our conference, yet you seem to want a budget of a national championship contender in football. You don't think that's a bit of a stretch, to have football funded on a level of the top 5 or so programs in the nation?
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - Buccaneerlover - 08-30-2011 07:27 PM
Tennis and golf have how much NCAA success? How many Final Four appearances in tennis again? How about Top 25 NATIONAL rankings? I've yet to see those. I don't have a problem with golf, Fred Warren is the one coach who imo gets the job done with fundraising within the non-revenue sports.
As for men's soccer, they have a full compliment of scholarships, the coach is making bank at this level from what I understand, and he has a shiny set of facilities to show off.
And no, let me spell this out for you since I cannot draw it in crayon like usual, I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ETSU SHOULD BE SPENDING WHAT THEY SPEND ON NON-REVENUE SPORTS. It's a laughing stock. Baseball is a non-revenue sport. Winning the homerun derby is not a team championship. Tennis has an outrageous budget, they should win the conference every year and usually do, but how about national titles? Getting out of the first two rounds? Not that anyone cares, nor would it generate private giving athletically or academically, it doesn't happen. They spend at a level that says they should go further. What I'm saying and most people will agree is that it's simply moronic to spend money on sports that will generate zero buzz within the student population, the community or the alumni. Maybe it's what you like, and if that's the case, great. I'll continue to spend entertainment dollars on college football, the Nashville Predators, NASCAR, and one weekend a year give money to Belmont and Lipscomb to see ETSU live. And sadly enough, I don't think I'm alone in this one among ETSU alums.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - Buc66 - 08-31-2011 08:56 AM
Buccaneerlover,
Permit me to commend you on your analysis of the expenditure of money within the ETSU Athletic Department. You have it exactly right, and those in disagreement with you either work in that department, have friends or relatives in that department, or have some other self-serving, inward looking agenda. Any objective observer who bothers to spend five or more minutes looking at ETSU athletic expenditures in comparison with that of its peer regional universities would fully support your analysis, hands down. ETSU is ALONE in the intercollegiate athletic world with the model it is following. It is completely and fully out of step, and totally removed from the mainstream. HEAR THIS SUPPORTERS OF THE CURRENT ETSU ATHLETIC MODEL: NO OTHER REGIONAL UNIVERSITY IN THE UNITED STATES HAS COPIED THIS MODEL OF KILLING AND ROBBING FOOTBALL TO PAY FOR THESE ABSOLUTELY NON-BENEFICIAL SPORTS THAT DO NOTHING FOR THE OVERALL IMAGE OF THE UNIVERSITY IN THE EYES OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC- NOT ONE OTHER REGIONAL UNIVERSITY SINCE 2003.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - bucfan81 - 08-31-2011 09:32 AM
(08-31-2011 08:56 AM)Buc66 Wrote: Buccaneerlover,
Permit me to commend you on your analysis of the expenditure of money within the ETSU Athletic Department. You have it exactly right, and those in disagreement with you either work in that department, have friends or relatives in that department, or have some other self-serving, inward looking agenda. Any objective observer who bothers to spend five or more minutes looking at ETSU athletic expenditures in comparison with that of its peer regional universities would fully support your analysis, hands down. ETSU is ALONE in the intercollegiate athletic world with the model it is following. It is completely and fully out of step, and totally removed from the mainstream. HEAR THIS SUPPORTERS OF THE CURRENT ETSU ATHLETIC MODEL: NO OTHER REGIONAL UNIVERSITY IN THE UNITED STATES HAS COPIED THIS MODEL OF KILLING AND ROBBING FOOTBALL TO PAY FOR THESE ABSOLUTELY NON-BENEFICIAL SPORTS THAT DO NOTHING FOR THE OVERALL IMAGE OF THE UNIVERSITY IN THE EYES OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC- NOT ONE OTHER REGIONAL UNIVERSITY SINCE 2003.
Let me add that you guys have it exactly right. Just look at all our peer schools. No more needs to be said. No they cannot just sit around and say ETSU is "different" when it is not different. It is a state school just like the other state schools and funded on the same formulas. The lame arguements about minor sports like soccer make no sense. We need our minor sports like tennis, track, cross-country, soccer, etc. Yes we need to keep them but make sure they are minor sports not major sports. App State plays soccer but they have sense enough to play football as a major sport. Think of the money App will be making this week from playing one single football game. And the publicity. More than you could get from playing 1000 soccer games. Enough is enough. Let us get a new president and move back into the mainstream of Tennessee state schools!
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - Buccaneerlover - 08-31-2011 10:54 AM
My issue is by bringing this up I was labeled a sexist and unsupportive of the university, stating the sport should be cut out entirely. I didn't start nor at any point in this thread say kill the sports, my point is simply if we're going to use this model and fund the irrelevant sports at the level they're funded then the soccer stadium should be chocked full of championship banners and Final Four banners from both sides. Brooks Gym should have a building full of banners, not just two really great records from playing crap schedules during the Devine era. And yes, I do expect more from tennis and golf then just winning a conference title in a conference known more for its' D-2 transitions and teams leaving rather than it's on field successes. Most of the time I say stuff on here that's deemed as pissing and moaning and maybe it is, but what I see out of my alma mater as it pertains to athletics makes it very easy for me not to spend the money and time to commit to driving to Johnson City from Nashville to games.
RE: New Year, New Coach, Same Great Results! - LetsgoBucs - 08-31-2011 04:39 PM
Let's set some of your inaccuracies straight. First, men's soccer. You realize a full compliment of scholarships is 9.9 scholarships right? Not exactly a crazy high number. As for Calabrese's salary, look it up. Making bank? Hardly. Last year he made $48,000 base salary. The year before that $39,000. No one is going to riot in the streets over those salaries. They're pretty reasonable for a head coach at an ETSU level institution. Go ahead, look at the numbers and see how they compare to other TBR institutions.
http://data.tennessean.com/ody/databases/tennessee-regents-university-salaries-2010.php?mode=1&sr=0&pg=20&sf=&sd=&institution=ALL&institutionOP=LK&title=Head%20Coach&titleOP=LK
Again, I don't understand your ridiculous expectations. Final four appearances and Top 25 rankings? ETSU doesn't have a single sport that is funded at anywhere close to a level of those who appear in Final Fours or the Top 25 rankings. This is plain fact. You like to characterize ETSU as spending untold, ungodly amounts of money on non-revenue sports when the reality is far, far from that. There's a continuum of spending in college athletics and while ETSU may spend slightly more on certain sports than other low-majors, they are still easily in the bottom half of the spending spectrum. To say otherwise would be false. I showed the discrepancy in spending between CofC and us on men's soccer alone.
I also think the real issue here is most of you guys are making an argument based on the reasons given for cutting football in 2003 that have nothing to do with the current situation in 2011. If you want to debate the decision to cut football, go ahead. I think they should not have done that. However, in 2011 we are 8 years removed from having football so the current spending levels have nothing to do with the absence or appearance of football. Just because you are angry about the lack of football, why would ETSU not spend the money it currently has on the sports it currently has??? I think the issue of adding football back and the current sports budgets are separate. To make budget allocations in 2011 based on the idea of a mythical football team would be dumb.
When discussing the addition of football, the topic of cutting from current sports shouldn't be a part of the discussion. You don't need to take away from other sports to add football and more importantly you cannot take enough away from those sports to pay for a football team and still have those sports function. Football can and should be added back on its own merit and through improved fundraising, not by slashing other budgets. Also. the mere presence of football does not change the university as you guys suggest. One, the reputation of the university hasn't declined since football was dropped. Having football didn't turn this place into a well-known and respected university. Also, football doesn't guarantee student interest or revenue. See ETSU in the past. Even App St. doesn't make bank. If they did they wouldn't have such a ridiculously high student athletic fee to sustain them. Winning, high level football does have the opportunity to gain recognition for the university. It can catch student attention. But, a university can do just fine without football as well. The Atlantic 10 schools aren't suffering from the lack of football. Does anyone really think Temple is a better university than Xavier because they have a crappy football team? Of course not. I would argue that basketball is the sport that has the greatest chance of gaining national recognition for the university not football.
All I'm saying is it's not as cut and dried as you guys seem to think. Football can be a boon, or it can be irrelevant. It is neither absolutely necessary or absolutely worthless.