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Who owns America's debt - DrTorch - 07-27-2011 09:37 AM
Interesting summary
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/21/who-owns-america-hint-its-not-china/
Hong Kong: $121.9 billion (0.9 percent)
Caribbean banking centers: $148.3 (1 percent)
Taiwan: $153.4 billion (1.1 percent)
Brazil: $211.4 billion (1.5 percent)
Oil exporting countries: $229.8 billion (1.6 percent)
Mutual funds: $300.5 billion (2 percent)
Commercial banks: $301.8 billion (2.1 percent)
State, local and federal retirement funds: $320.9 billion (2.2 percent)
Money market mutual funds: $337.7 billion (2.4 percent)
United Kingdom: $346.5 billion (2.4 percent)
Private pension funds: $504.7 billion (3.5 percent)
State and local governments: $506.1 billion (3.5 percent)
Japan: $912.4 billion (6.4 percent)
U.S. households: $959.4 billion (6.6 percent)
China: $1.16 trillion (8 percent)
The U.S. Treasury: $1.63 trillion (11.3 percent)
Social Security trust fund: $2.67 trillion (19 percent)
RE: Who owns America's debt - Fo Shizzle - 07-27-2011 06:19 PM
The last one on the list really pisses me off. It should never been allowed to be borrowed from in the first place.
RE: Who owns America's debt - WoodlandsOwl - 07-27-2011 06:25 PM
(07-27-2011 06:19 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: The last one on the list really pisses me off. It should never been allowed to be borrowed from in the first place.
You and I would be doing "Madoff Time" if that happened in the private sector
RE: Who owns America's debt - THE NC Herd Fan - 07-27-2011 06:28 PM
Couple of points:
China share of US debt I've seen reported as low as the 8% in the CNN report you posted to a Wikipeda report of 26%. One report showed China's share at 12% which I suspect is about right.
The fact that the SSI "Trust" fund holds so much US debt shows how deep we are in it. Now that we are paying from the "trust" fund because SSI tax collections are less that SSI disbursement we have to cover the difference with the "Trust" fund. This again shows that SSI was and is a Ponzi scheme.
RE: Who owns America's debt - Fo Shizzle - 07-27-2011 06:37 PM
(07-27-2011 06:28 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote: Couple of points:
China share of US debt I've seen reported as low as the 8% in the CNN report you posted to a Wikipeda report of 26%. One report showed China's share at 12% which I suspect is about right.
The fact that the SSI "Trust" fund holds so much US debt shows how deep we are in it. Now that we are paying from the "trust" fund because SSI tax collections are less that SSI disbursement we have to cover the difference with the "Trust" fund. This again shows that SSI was and is a Ponzi scheme.
The sad thing is that properly managed and invested it could have been a wonderful thing for Americans. The RR workers and City of Galveston have their own plans that have done very well by their workers. The SSI is at best a lousy investment and at worst is as you say a Ponzi scheme.
RE: Who owns America's debt - Jugnaut - 07-27-2011 06:45 PM
(07-27-2011 09:37 AM)DrTorch Wrote: Interesting summary
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/21/who-owns-america-hint-its-not-china/
Hong Kong: $121.9 billion (0.9 percent)
Caribbean banking centers: $148.3 (1 percent)
Taiwan: $153.4 billion (1.1 percent)
Brazil: $211.4 billion (1.5 percent)
Oil exporting countries: $229.8 billion (1.6 percent)
Mutual funds: $300.5 billion (2 percent)
Commercial banks: $301.8 billion (2.1 percent)
State, local and federal retirement funds: $320.9 billion (2.2 percent)
Money market mutual funds: $337.7 billion (2.4 percent)
United Kingdom: $346.5 billion (2.4 percent)
Private pension funds: $504.7 billion (3.5 percent)
State and local governments: $506.1 billion (3.5 percent)
Japan: $912.4 billion (6.4 percent)
U.S. households: $959.4 billion (6.6 percent)
China: $1.16 trillion (8 percent)
The U.S. Treasury: $1.63 trillion (11.3 percent)
Social Security trust fund: $2.67 trillion (19 percent)
That doesn't look like it comes close to 100%. Who owns the other 40%? The Fed Reserve?
RE: Who owns America's debt - THE NC Herd Fan - 07-27-2011 06:46 PM
(07-27-2011 06:37 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(07-27-2011 06:28 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote: Couple of points:
China share of US debt I've seen reported as low as the 8% in the CNN report you posted to a Wikipeda report of 26%. One report showed China's share at 12% which I suspect is about right.
The fact that the SSI "Trust" fund holds so much US debt shows how deep we are in it. Now that we are paying from the "trust" fund because SSI tax collections are less that SSI disbursement we have to cover the difference with the "Trust" fund. This again shows that SSI was and is a Ponzi scheme.
The sad thing is that properly managed and invested it could have been a wonderful thing for Americans. The RR workers and City of Galveston have their own plans that have done very well by their workers. The SSI is at best a lousy investment and at worst is as you say a Ponzi scheme.
As a professional accounting "geek" I have to attended a lot of continuing education programs. I once attended one about SSI and the discussion leader was a mutual fund manager. The discussion leader said the US Treasuries held in the SSI trust fund were really more like gubment IOU's. When the trust fund needed to call these IOU's the only way to settle is to raise taxes. We are almost out of time and will soon have to decide if benefits will be cut or taxes will be raised. Raising taxes would be a short-term fix unless the "trust" fund is invested in something besides gubment securities.
RE: Who owns America's debt - smn1256 - 07-27-2011 07:34 PM
The title of this thread should be "who do the American tax payers owe money to?"
RE: Who owns America's debt - SumOfAllFears - 07-27-2011 07:47 PM
Go to this thread.
SSI and Medicare is a $62 trillion unfunded liability. Makes the SSTrust fund of unmarketable IOU's look like chump change.
The Federal Reserve is secret so we don't know how much the monetized the debt. The Fed "loaned" the banks $16 trillion in 2007-10. Obabba and Bush are the proud parents of that child.
Watch this if you got the nerve.
RE: Who owns America's debt - Machiavelli - 07-27-2011 08:19 PM
I still remember George W Bush selling his tax cuts as a refund to the American tax payer. On behalf of the American tax payer I'm here for a refund. Something along those lines. Thank God for that guy's policies. Can you imagine where would be today if this guy wasn't around? That guy was a jewel. Left the country in GREAT shape.
RE: Who owns America's debt - Ninerfan1 - 07-27-2011 08:25 PM
(07-27-2011 08:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: I still remember George W Bush selling his tax cuts as a refund to the American tax payer. On behalf of the American tax payer I'm here for a refund. Something along those lines. Thank God for that guy's policies. Can you imagine where would be today if this guy wasn't around? That guy was a jewel. Left the country in GREAT shape.
So I guess you made sure to cut a check back to the treasury to ensure you didn't get your tax cut right? Of course you did. Bet you didn't deduct all your medical costs either huh? Of course not!!! Cause you're a patriot that way. You'd never accept a tax cut when you preach on here so much how they ruined the economy. But you, recognizing that, did your part and made sure any money that would have gone into your pocket via those tax cuts went right back to the treasury. You'd NEVER accept a tax cut so dangerous to our economy. Nope, not you.:ncaabbs:
RE: Who owns America's debt - THE NC Herd Fan - 07-27-2011 08:33 PM
(07-27-2011 08:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: I still remember George W Bush selling his tax cuts as a refund to the American tax payer. On behalf of the American tax payer I'm here for a refund. Something along those lines. Thank God for that guy's policies. Can you imagine where would be today if this guy wasn't around? That guy was a jewel. Left the country in GREAT shape.
Obama's Legacy when he leaves office in just over 18 months...
Unemployment likely at 10% up from 7.5% when he took office.
National debt 85% of GDP when he took office 105% of GDP when he leaves
Gasoline prices when he took office $1.63/gallon when he leaves $3.69+/gallon.
Yes Obama is so much better.
RE: Who owns America's debt - SumOfAllFears - 07-27-2011 08:38 PM
(07-27-2011 08:33 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:(07-27-2011 08:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: I still remember George W Bush selling his tax cuts as a refund to the American tax payer. On behalf of the American tax payer I'm here for a refund. Something along those lines. Thank God for that guy's policies. Can you imagine where would be today if this guy wasn't around? That guy was a jewel. Left the country in GREAT shape.
Obama's Legacy when he leaves office in just over 18 months...
Unemployment likely at 10% up from 7.5% when he took office.
National debt 85% of GDP when he took office 105% of GDP when he leaves
Gasoline prices when he took office $1.63/gallon when he leaves $3.69+/gallon.
Yes Obama is so much better.
How's the hopey and changey thing working for us. bastard.
RE: Who owns America's debt - Paul M - 07-27-2011 08:51 PM
(07-27-2011 08:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: I still remember George W Bush selling his tax cuts as a refund to the American tax payer. On behalf of the American tax payer I'm here for a refund. Something along those lines. Thank God for that guy's policies. Can you imagine where would be today if this guy wasn't around? That guy was a jewel. Left the country in GREAT shape.
I take it you believe if the gubment had collected that money instead of allowing those who earned it to keep it, we would be enjoying good times.
RE: Who owns America's debt - Machiavelli - 07-27-2011 09:20 PM
Herd when you write that about gas prices you have to know how deceptive that is. You and I both know that wasn't the case throughout his presidency. It leaves the other two points up for critique. Someone posted the Atlantic article that showed a comparison between W and Obama money in new policies. That surely showed Obama in a better light. I don't know. Obama gets the benefit of the doubt from me because of the disaster he inherited.
RE: Who owns America's debt - Paul M - 07-27-2011 09:58 PM
He gets your benefit of a doubt because your a partisan hack.
RE: Who owns America's debt - Fo Shizzle - 07-27-2011 09:59 PM
(07-27-2011 09:20 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: Herd when you write that about gas prices you have to know how deceptive that is. You and I both know that wasn't the case throughout his presidency. It leaves the other two points up for critique. Someone posted the Atlantic article that showed a comparison between W and Obama money in new policies. That surely showed Obama in a better light. I don't know. Obama gets the benefit of the doubt from me because of the disaster he inherited.
Not me. He flat out lied to the American public about bringing home the troops in order to get elected and every death since he took office is squarely his responsibility. If he had done as he promised...this debt crisis would not be happening as quickly also. I really never thought I would have less respect for any POTUS than Shrub. I was wrong.