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Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - DrTorch - 08-05-2009 09:56 AM
From the Ministry of Truth.
If only I were making this up. Ok all you civil liberties defenders, who told us Obama would undo all of Bush's evil...care to comment?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/
Quote:Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to [email protected].
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - wvucrazed - 08-05-2009 10:34 AM
Um, yeah.
That's quite an astonishing stretch to suggest that asking people to report blatant disinformation so that it can be publicly corrected is the same as Bush & company using warrantless wiretaps, rendition, "enhanced" interrogation techniques, etc..
See, the thing is, there is no Obama Truth Squad that will swoop down in a black helicopter to snatch the innocent tea-bagger as he goes along his merry way spewing right-wing talking points he dutifully learned from Sean Hannity and transport him to a secret prison where he will be forced to listen to old Al Franken monologues.
.... although, that might be a new policy to consider.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - DrTorch - 08-05-2009 10:39 AM
(08-05-2009 10:34 AM)wvucrazed Wrote: Um, yeah.
That's quite an astonishing stretch to suggest that asking people to report blatant disinformation
I see no stretch at all, and it's disingenuous to suggest that. This is a ridiculous position to take at best, evil at worst. And only a blind sheep would so willfully advocate it.
The simplest approach to misinformation is to keep spreading the truth. But that's a very hard task for this administration.
Instead of trying to govern w/ 1000+ bills, maybe this administration, and it's congressional partisans, should stick w/ the Constitution. While most of their supporters have never read it, it will reduce the amount of "misinformation."
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - wvucrazed - 08-05-2009 10:41 AM
(08-05-2009 10:39 AM)DrTorch Wrote: The simplest approach to misinformation is to keep spreading the truth.
Which is what they are trying to do.
But in order to counteract the lies and distortions, they need to know what lies and distortions are being bandied about.
You are trying to make this into something insidious and it's clearly not.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Machiavelli - 08-05-2009 10:42 AM
Torch,
With all the things thrown at Obama they just want to know what's out there. There is so much disinformation that needs to be debunked. There is an astroturf event happening and it's main goal is to confuse the electorate. I know I know you see the exact same thing frm the other side.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Ninerfan1 - 08-05-2009 10:47 AM
(08-05-2009 10:42 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: There is an astroturf event happening and it's main goal is to confuse the electorate. I know I know you see the exact same thing frm the other side.
Glad to see you're doing your duty and spewing the company line directly from the White House Mach.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Machiavelli - 08-05-2009 10:57 AM
Thank You..... Thank You
Not from the White house per se..... Actually Huffington Post had an article of on how corporate lobbyist grabbed info from the tea baggers and rounded them up as plants to disrupt the town halls. When all alse fails resort to thuggery.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Machiavelli - 08-05-2009 11:02 AM
BTW I wish we had a system like Canada and we actually paid for it with a national sales tax, but I think you know that.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - wvucrazed - 08-05-2009 11:03 AM
(08-05-2009 10:57 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: Thank You..... Thank You
Not from the White house per se..... Actually Huffington Post had an article of on how corporate lobbyist grabbed info from the tea baggers and rounded them up as plants to disrupt the town halls. When all alse fails resort to thuggery.
Yup... these "spontaneous" protests and disruptions of town halls are all a corporate ploy. People have no problem being duped and manipulated for corporate interests, apparently.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Machiavelli - 08-05-2009 11:11 AM
and Drudge had it linked immediately. The anatomy of a faux protest. Just glad someone is out there calling them out on it.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - DrTorch - 08-05-2009 11:13 AM
(08-05-2009 10:41 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:(08-05-2009 10:39 AM)DrTorch Wrote: The simplest approach to misinformation is to keep spreading the truth.
Which is what they are trying to do.
But in order to counteract the lies and distortions, they need to know what lies and distortions are being bandied about.
Uh no you don't. Since lies and distortions can be infinite in number, it's a pointless (and expensive) exercise to keep track of them. Nope, you're better off having one message and sticking to it.
That's where this administration has difficulties.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Owl 69/70/75 - 08-05-2009 11:24 AM
(08-05-2009 11:02 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: BTW I wish we had a system like Canada and we actually paid for it with a national sales tax, but I think you know that.
No you don't.
You, of all people, don't.
If you don't understand that, then you are failing to comprehend how a system like Canada works.
I think you mean that you want a system like France. So do I.
But not Canada.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Owl 69/70/75 - 08-05-2009 11:26 AM
So what contained in the following is lies and distortions?
And what is legitimate criticism?
A Health Quiz for Barry
by Mike Adams - http://www.townhall.com - August 5, 2009
Article Link
Dear Mr. Obama ([email protected]):
...
I would like for you to take the time to answer these questions for two reasons. First, I’ve spent a lot of time reading the health care bill. Second, and more importantly, the U.S. Congress has not spent much time reading the bill.
On Page 22, I saw some language, which suggested that the bill mandates audits of all employers that choose to self-insure. Can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
On Page 29, I saw what appeared to be an admission that health care will be rationed under this new plan. Can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
On Page 30, I discovered that a government committee will be established to decide what treatments and benefits I get. However, unlike an insurer, I see no evidence that there will be a process to appeal their decisions. Can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
On Page 50, I read some non-discrimination language, which seems to suggest that all non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services. Can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
On Page 59, I saw some language suggesting that the federal government will have access to all individual bank accounts for health-related electronic funds transfers. Can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
On Page 124, I learned that no private company can sue the government for price-fixing. Furthermore, no "judicial review" is permitted against a complete government monopoly. Can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
On Page 127, I read that the government will now set wages for physicians. Can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
On Page 149, couched in esoteric “contribution” language, it looks like any employer with a payroll of $400,000 or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll as a penalty. This penalty would go a long way towards destroying the private system. It would also seem to violate your campaign promises – specifically those you made during debates I watched. If I read this correctly, it appears you looked me – via the camera – in the eye and lied. So, Barry, can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
On Page 203, I read a very strange sentence: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax imposed by this chapter for purposes of determining the amount of any credit under this chapter." I know this is supposed to be a true/false test but do you think calling a “tax” by some other name means it is no longer a tax? This seems to be a persistent theme in this bill. Please explain. Attach extra sheets of paper if necessary.
Page 272 has some of the most esoteric language of the health care bill. But it looks like the government plans to ration health care for cancer patients. Can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
On Page 280, I read that hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems to be “preventable re-admissions.” Once again, I know this is supposed to be a true/false test but, please, tell me this: How is the government in a better position (than a health care professional) to determine what constitutes a “preventable re-admission?”
Page 317 suggests that doctors will soon be prohibited from owning and investing in health care companies. Can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
The following page suggests that hospitals can no longer expand without government approval. Can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
On Page 429 things get very disturbing unless, of course, I am reading this wrong. It appears that an advance care planning consultation will be used to dictate treatment as a patient's health deteriorates. This can include an order for end-of-life plans – specifically, an order from the government. Can you tell me whether that is a) True or b) False?
It really bothers me, Mr. President, that I can learn a lot more about pending legislation from an internet chat room than I can from my elected representatives. It also bothers me that I have to read pending bills because, in all likelihood, my representatives will not. Regardless, I want you to read this email carefully and answer all of my questions.
If you answer “true” – even to a single question - you will have lost any prospect of gaining my support. If you answer “false” to every question we can move on to pages 500 through 1018.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Machiavelli - 08-05-2009 11:29 AM
Nope, you're better off having one message and sticking to it.
That's where this administration has difficulties.
I wholeheartedly agree. For the life of me I can't understand why Democrats have such a hard time staying on topic. That's one huge advantage Republicans have. They have a core belief, they have a message, and for the most part they all stay in lock step. Obama campaigned on universal health care. G Damn it go with it.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Rebel - 08-05-2009 11:43 AM
(08-05-2009 10:42 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: Torch,
With all the things thrown at Obama they just want to know what's out there. There is so much disinformation that needs to be debunked. There is an astroturf event happening and it's main goal is to confuse the electorate. I know I know you see the exact same thing frm the other side.
Oh bull****. You libs did the same thing to Bush for 8 GDamn years and if he'd have done this all of you idiots would be screaming bloody murder. Hell, the same **** you claimed Bush was doing, without any substantive proof, is happening under the Obama administration. Useful idiots. Lenin was right.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Owl 69/70/75 - 08-05-2009 11:43 AM
(08-05-2009 11:29 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: Nope, you're better off having one message and sticking to it.
That's where this administration has difficulties.
I wholeheartedly agree. For the life of me I can't understand why Democrats have such a hard time staying on topic. That's one huge advantage Republicans have. They have a core belief, they have a message, and for the most part they all stay in lock step. Obama campaigned on universal health care. G Damn it go with it.
It's a whole lot harder to stay on message when you told one lie to this group over here to get their vote, and another lie to a different group over here to get their vote.
That works fine as long as you're just campaigning, particularly if you have a fawning media that passes on asking the obvious questions.
It's a little harder once you're in power and you actually have to deliver.
Obama got one group of socialist votes by promising universal health care.
He got a group of middle class, centrist votes by promising tax cuts for 95% of the population.
He probably doesn't win without both groups.
Now he can't do both--no way possible.
So he has to admit he lied to at least one of the two groups.
I could go through the same analysis with energy or a host of other issues, but health care is what's on the table now.
Being president is sorta like being a community organizer, except there are consequences.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Machiavelli - 08-05-2009 11:48 AM
Quote:Oh bull****. You libs did the same thing to Bush for 8 GDamn years and if he'd have done this all of you idiots would be screaming bloody murder. Hell, the same **** you claimed Bush was doing, without any substantive proof, is happening under the Obama administration. Useful idiots. Lenin was right.
Why do you always go down this road. Let's keep the convo above board. No sense of calling people idiots. It degrades the conversation.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - Ninerfan1 - 08-05-2009 11:53 AM
(08-05-2009 10:57 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: Thank You..... Thank You
Not from the White house per se.....
Try again.
Quote:In a conversation with reporters Tuesday morning, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs questioned the authenticity ...
... of protests against the president's health care reform push and urged the press to view volatile town hall meetings with a "jaundiced eye."
"I hope people will take a jaundiced eye to what is clearly the astroturf nature of grassroots lobbying,"
Linky
Anyone who believes these protest are simply faked or manufactured is deluded beyond belief. But that would make sense, because those are the same ones that voted for Obama in the first place.
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - DrTorch - 08-05-2009 11:55 AM
(08-05-2009 11:29 AM)Machiavelli Wrote: Nope, you're better off having one message and sticking to it.
That's where this administration has difficulties.
I wholeheartedly agree. For the life of me I can't understand why Democrats have such a hard time staying on topic. That's one huge advantage Republicans have. They have a core belief, they have a message, and for the most part they all stay in lock step.
As if! Isn't that the biggest, most legitimate criticism of the GOP? They aren't in lock-step, and haven't been for some time.
Thus it shows w/ their performances, both in service and at the voting booth, since 2006.
Quote: Obama campaigned on universal health care. G Damn it go with it.
Yeah, and let the courts and populace remind him of the 10th Amendment
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
RE: Turn in people to Big Brother. (Not fiction) - wvucrazed - 08-05-2009 12:08 PM
(08-05-2009 11:53 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote: Anyone who believes these protest are simply faked or manufactured is deluded beyond belief.
If you think the healthcare lobby will sit back and idly allow the President to overhaul healthcare with millions and millions at stake, you are the one who is deluded.
This is a coordinated effort fed by $$$ from the healthcare lobby.
Here is a detailed discussion about it (and i'm sure you won't mind that it's from a left-leaning site. After all, you wouldn't refute the information simply because of the political leanings of those presenting it... would you?)
http://standwithdrdean.com/2009/08/05/ahip-undoubtedly-funding-the-fake-protestors