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Eminent Domain - I need help - smn1256 - 07-23-2009 01:19 PM
This morning my wife walked outside her business to see a group of 15 or so people taking photos of her property and looking at plans. It seems they might want to take her property to create another access point for the multi-level parking structure which sits behind it. If they gave her the current value of the property she'd lose hundreds of thousands of dollars not to mention the costs of relocating.
Any ideas on what she can do?
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - WoodlandsOwl - 07-23-2009 01:21 PM
(07-23-2009 01:19 PM)smn1256 Wrote: This morning my wife walked outside her business to see a group of 15 or so people taking photos of her property and looking at plans. It seems they might want to take her property to create another access point for the multi-level parking structure which sits behind it. If they gave her the current value of the property she'd lose hundreds of thousands of dollars not to mention the costs of relocating.
Any ideas on what she can do?
You can always contest the offer in Court. It isn't automatic "take it and get out"...
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - Brookes Owl - 07-23-2009 01:38 PM
(07-23-2009 01:19 PM)smn1256 Wrote: This morning my wife walked outside her business to see a group of 15 or so people taking photos of her property and looking at plans. It seems they might want to take her property to create another access point for the multi-level parking structure which sits behind it. If they gave her the current value of the property she'd lose hundreds of thousands of dollars not to mention the costs of relocating.
Any ideas on what she can do?
This is a city or county structure? There are limits and requirements for how a city or county can take property. Among other things they will have to go through an environmental review process and you'll have opportunities to jump in. WMD is right - you can fight in court. But I'd take a more pro-active approach. First find out who those people are and what they were doing. Call City Hall or the County offices and find out for sure what they're up to. Then call the local newspaper. If you're in Riverside my recollection is that the Press Enterprise is a pretty conservative paper and might be sympathetic. Let them know what you are up against. And follow up with the local agency in charge to make sure you can inject yourself into the process.
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - SumOfAllFears - 07-23-2009 01:55 PM
Eminent Domain pretty much means only the government's right. They are the only ones that can use the threat to condemn the property. The US Supreme court in a controversial ruling recently, allowed the condemnation of private property to a business entity saying it would increase Tax revenue. That has only been used in a limited captivity so far. So the founding father's to preserve personal property rights, only allowed the government the right of condemnation. Liberals have flipped this on it's head giving the government the right to take property for any reason.
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - bitcruncher - 07-23-2009 03:45 PM
If the government really wants to use the property for another purpose, they'll get it eventually. In a case like that, all you can do is make it difficult for them. But if they really want it, you're screwed. They make the rules, and change 'em whenever it becomes convenient...
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - smn1256 - 07-23-2009 04:11 PM
(07-23-2009 01:38 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: This is a city or county structure? There are limits and requirements for how a city or county can take property. Among other things they will have to go through an environmental review process and you'll have opportunities to jump in. WMD is right - you can fight in court. But I'd take a more pro-active approach. First find out who those people are and what they were doing. Call City Hall or the County offices and find out for sure what they're up to. Then call the local newspaper. If you're in Riverside my recollection is that the Press Enterprise is a pretty conservative paper and might be sympathetic. Let them know what you are up against. And follow up with the local agency in charge to make sure you can inject yourself into the process.
The parking structure is for Metrolink, or a commuter train. The property could be owned by the city, county, Metrolink, the state or anyone else, hard to tell at this point. The structure was just completed about a year ago, but my wife just told me she was informally informed about her property being taken a few years ago.
Corona is a republican city within a republican county. Not sure how much that really counts for anything since the Supreme Court last year ruled that a city can take private property and sell it to developers who then develop it for personal profit. Taking property for an infrastructure development would appear to have zero chance of being fought.
You seem to know about this area (Press Enterprise being our paper), you from this area?
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - Brookes Owl - 07-23-2009 04:55 PM
(07-23-2009 04:11 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(07-23-2009 01:38 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: This is a city or county structure? There are limits and requirements for how a city or county can take property. Among other things they will have to go through an environmental review process and you'll have opportunities to jump in. WMD is right - you can fight in court. But I'd take a more pro-active approach. First find out who those people are and what they were doing. Call City Hall or the County offices and find out for sure what they're up to. Then call the local newspaper. If you're in Riverside my recollection is that the Press Enterprise is a pretty conservative paper and might be sympathetic. Let them know what you are up against. And follow up with the local agency in charge to make sure you can inject yourself into the process.
The parking structure is for Metrolink, or a commuter train. The property could be owned by the city, county, Metrolink, the state or anyone else, hard to tell at this point. The structure was just completed about a year ago, but my wife just told me she was informally informed about her property being taken a few years ago.
Corona is a republican city within a republican county. Not sure how much that really counts for anything since the Supreme Court last year ruled that a city can take private property and sell it to developers who then develop it for personal profit. Taking property for an infrastructure development would appear to have zero chance of being fought.
You seem to know about this area (Press Enterprise being our paper), you from this area?
Grew up in LA and OC. Brother went to UCR. Have done a lot of work all over SoCal, including the Inland Empire, as an environmental consultant.
The SCOTUS ruling notwithstanding, the political nature of your city and county means you should have some sympathetic ears. Metrolink is a multi-county organization that could end up funding some or a portion of the work but they'd still have to go through the city/county. And I doubt this is a state property or action. I'd GUESS you're looking at the City of Corona and/or the County of Riverside. You're right - these entities get a lot of momentum and are hard to stop. But you can fight to get a better price for the property. And the leverage is your ability to get in the middle of the environmental review. (See California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA).) This is a public process that any development has to go through, and if you play it right you can stifle development for years. Sometimes that takes attorneys and consultants, sometimes it just takes determination and a lot of free time.
For now you need to get proactive: Call the city, county and Metrolink and find out who's in charge and the status of their plans, specifically where they are in the development and review (did your wife get business cards, see logos on shirts or hats?). Take what you know to the Press Enterprise and your councilperson, county supervisor, or any other potentially sympathetic local politician. And get in the middle of the CEQA process as soon as it starts (attend public meetings, submit comments on public documents, enlist other organizations that might have a problem with the development).
And let me know what you find out.
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - smn1256 - 07-23-2009 05:06 PM
(07-23-2009 04:55 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:(07-23-2009 04:11 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(07-23-2009 01:38 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: This is a city or county structure? There are limits and requirements for how a city or county can take property. Among other things they will have to go through an environmental review process and you'll have opportunities to jump in. WMD is right - you can fight in court. But I'd take a more pro-active approach. First find out who those people are and what they were doing. Call City Hall or the County offices and find out for sure what they're up to. Then call the local newspaper. If you're in Riverside my recollection is that the Press Enterprise is a pretty conservative paper and might be sympathetic. Let them know what you are up against. And follow up with the local agency in charge to make sure you can inject yourself into the process.
The parking structure is for Metrolink, or a commuter train. The property could be owned by the city, county, Metrolink, the state or anyone else, hard to tell at this point. The structure was just completed about a year ago, but my wife just told me she was informally informed about her property being taken a few years ago.
Corona is a republican city within a republican county. Not sure how much that really counts for anything since the Supreme Court last year ruled that a city can take private property and sell it to developers who then develop it for personal profit. Taking property for an infrastructure development would appear to have zero chance of being fought.
You seem to know about this area (Press Enterprise being our paper), you from this area?
Grew up in LA and OC. Brother went to UCR. Have done a lot of work all over SoCal, including the Inland Empire, as an environmental consultant.
The SCOTUS ruling notwithstanding, the political nature of your city and county means you should have some sympathetic ears. Metrolink is a multi-county organization that could end up funding some or a portion of the work but they'd still have to go through the city/county. And I doubt this is a state property or action. I'd GUESS you're looking at the City of Corona and/or the County of Riverside. You're right - these entities get a lot of momentum and are hard to stop. But you can fight to get a better price for the property. And the leverage is your ability to get in the middle of the environmental review. (See California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA).) This is a public process that any development has to go through, and if you play it right you can stifle development for years. Sometimes that takes attorneys and consultants, sometimes it just takes determination and a lot of free time.
For now you need to get proactive: Call the city, county and Metrolink and find out who's in charge and the status of their plans, specifically where they are in the development and review (did your wife get business cards, see logos on shirts or hats?). Take what you know to the Press Enterprise and your councilperson, county supervisor, or any other potentially sympathetic local politician. And get in the middle of the CEQA process as soon as it starts (attend public meetings, submit comments on public documents, enlist other organizations that might have a problem with the development).
And let me know what you find out.
thanks for the advice, I'm forwarding all this to my wife right now.
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - Fo Shizzle - 07-23-2009 05:43 PM
I hate to be a naysayer....but....She is screwed. Those in power do not care about her property. They feel they own it...and they do.
ED is theft. I do not care how they package it. It is theft.
I hope she manages to thwart their actions..but..They since they have the ability to steal from YOU to fund a legal action against YOU....and....You must fight them with YOUR hard earned wages, they know you will probably settle. Be aware!!!! They have NO problem just stealing the property if you refuse.
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - jh - 07-23-2009 07:46 PM
http://www.castlecoalition.org/
Quote:The Castle Coalition is the Institute for Justice’s nationwide grassroots property rights activism project. The Castle Coalition teaches home and small business owners how to protect themselves and stand up to the greedy governments and developers who seek to use eminent domain to take private property for their own gain. And thanks to the gracious generosity of our donors, we're able to do this for free.
While they lost the Kelo case, the Institute for Justice has won several eminent domain cases.
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - smn1256 - 07-23-2009 07:49 PM
(07-23-2009 07:46 PM)jh Wrote: http://www.castlecoalition.org/
Quote:The Castle Coalition is the Institute for Justice’s nationwide grassroots property rights activism project. The Castle Coalition teaches home and small business owners how to protect themselves and stand up to the greedy governments and developers who seek to use eminent domain to take private property for their own gain. And thanks to the gracious generosity of our donors, we're able to do this for free.
While they lost the Kelo case, the Institute for Justice has won several eminent domain cases.
Thanks J
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - smn1256 - 07-23-2009 08:05 PM
(07-23-2009 05:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I hope she manages to thwart their actions..but..They since they have the ability to steal from YOU to fund a legal action against YOU....and....You must fight them with YOUR hard earned wages, they know you will probably settle. Be aware!!!! They have NO problem just stealing the property if you refuse.
When you put it that way it sucks even more.
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - Fo Shizzle - 07-23-2009 08:33 PM
(07-23-2009 08:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(07-23-2009 05:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I hope she manages to thwart their actions..but..They since they have the ability to steal from YOU to fund a legal action against YOU....and....You must fight them with YOUR hard earned wages, they know you will probably settle. Be aware!!!! They have NO problem just stealing the property if you refuse.
When you put it that way it sucks even more.
Yes...Just more evidence that we truly do live on a comfortable plantation. They have perfected slavery to the degree that the slaves fund their own bondage.
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - WoodlandsOwl - 07-23-2009 08:43 PM
(07-23-2009 08:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(07-23-2009 05:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I hope she manages to thwart their actions..but..They since they have the ability to steal from YOU to fund a legal action against YOU....and....You must fight them with YOUR hard earned wages, they know you will probably settle. Be aware!!!! They have NO problem just stealing the property if you refuse.
When you put it that way it sucks even more.
Around here you have the right to a jury trial on ED cases.
In some states, if the award comes back from the Court that is higher than the government's offer, then the government also pays your legal fees.
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - Fo Shizzle - 07-23-2009 09:09 PM
(07-23-2009 08:43 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(07-23-2009 08:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(07-23-2009 05:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I hope she manages to thwart their actions..but..They since they have the ability to steal from YOU to fund a legal action against YOU....and....You must fight them with YOUR hard earned wages, they know you will probably settle. Be aware!!!! They have NO problem just stealing the property if you refuse.
When you put it that way it sucks even more.
Around here you have the right to a jury trial on ED cases.
In some states, if the award comes back from the Court that is higher than the government's offer, then the government also pays your legal fees.
Correct me if I'm wrong...You are probably not going to have the option of just keeping your property. You may get a fair settlement..but..you are most likely going to have to give it up.
What if I decide that there is NO amount of money that would make me sell my property regardless of the amount a jury decides?
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - smn1256 - 07-23-2009 09:20 PM
(07-23-2009 09:09 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(07-23-2009 08:43 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(07-23-2009 08:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(07-23-2009 05:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I hope she manages to thwart their actions..but..They since they have the ability to steal from YOU to fund a legal action against YOU....and....You must fight them with YOUR hard earned wages, they know you will probably settle. Be aware!!!! They have NO problem just stealing the property if you refuse.
When you put it that way it sucks even more.
Around here you have the right to a jury trial on ED cases.
In some states, if the award comes back from the Court that is higher than the government's offer, then the government also pays your legal fees.
Correct me if I'm wrong...You are probably not going to have the option of just keeping your property. You may get a fair settlement..but..you are most likely going to have to give it up.
What if I decide that there is NO amount of money that would make me sell my property regardless of the amount a jury decides?
You'd probably get a certified letter in the mail telling you when to get out. When that day comes, with the help of the police, you'd be forcibly kicked to the curb.
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - SumOfAllFears - 07-23-2009 09:23 PM
(07-23-2009 09:09 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(07-23-2009 08:43 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(07-23-2009 08:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(07-23-2009 05:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I hope she manages to thwart their actions..but..They since they have the ability to steal from YOU to fund a legal action against YOU....and....You must fight them with YOUR hard earned wages, they know you will probably settle. Be aware!!!! They have NO problem just stealing the property if you refuse.
When you put it that way it sucks even more.
Around here you have the right to a jury trial on ED cases.
In some states, if the award comes back from the Court that is higher than the government's offer, then the government also pays your legal fees.
Correct me if I'm wrong...You are probably not going to have the option of just keeping your property. You may get a fair settlement..but..you are most likely going to have to give it up.
What if I decide that there is NO amount of money that would make me sell my property regardless of the amount a jury decides?
It is not for you to decide. Fair market value is established by an appraiser using comparable sales. If there are no comparable sales or you dispute them, you are given the opportunity to make your value case.
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - Fo Shizzle - 07-23-2009 09:26 PM
(07-23-2009 09:23 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:(07-23-2009 09:09 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(07-23-2009 08:43 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(07-23-2009 08:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(07-23-2009 05:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I hope she manages to thwart their actions..but..They since they have the ability to steal from YOU to fund a legal action against YOU....and....You must fight them with YOUR hard earned wages, they know you will probably settle. Be aware!!!! They have NO problem just stealing the property if you refuse.
When you put it that way it sucks even more.
Around here you have the right to a jury trial on ED cases.
In some states, if the award comes back from the Court that is higher than the government's offer, then the government also pays your legal fees.
Correct me if I'm wrong...You are probably not going to have the option of just keeping your property. You may get a fair settlement..but..you are most likely going to have to give it up.
What if I decide that there is NO amount of money that would make me sell my property regardless of the amount a jury decides?
It is not for you to decide. Fair market value is established by an appraiser using comparable sales. If there are no comparable sales or you dispute them, you are given the opportunity to make your value case.
Now..Isn't that just dandy!!!! You don't get to decide the value of your own damn property. Yep...We live in free country!!!!!
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - Fo Shizzle - 07-23-2009 09:28 PM
(07-23-2009 09:20 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(07-23-2009 09:09 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(07-23-2009 08:43 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(07-23-2009 08:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(07-23-2009 05:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I hope she manages to thwart their actions..but..They since they have the ability to steal from YOU to fund a legal action against YOU....and....You must fight them with YOUR hard earned wages, they know you will probably settle. Be aware!!!! They have NO problem just stealing the property if you refuse.
When you put it that way it sucks even more.
Around here you have the right to a jury trial on ED cases.
In some states, if the award comes back from the Court that is higher than the government's offer, then the government also pays your legal fees.
Correct me if I'm wrong...You are probably not going to have the option of just keeping your property. You may get a fair settlement..but..you are most likely going to have to give it up.
What if I decide that there is NO amount of money that would make me sell my property regardless of the amount a jury decides?
You'd probably get a certified letter in the mail telling you when to get out. When that day comes, with the help of the police, you'd be forcibly kicked to the curb.
This.
Ain't freedom wonderful?
RE: Eminent Domain - I need help - smn1256 - 07-23-2009 09:28 PM
(07-23-2009 09:26 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(07-23-2009 09:23 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:(07-23-2009 09:09 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(07-23-2009 08:43 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(07-23-2009 08:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:(07-23-2009 05:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I hope she manages to thwart their actions..but..They since they have the ability to steal from YOU to fund a legal action against YOU....and....You must fight them with YOUR hard earned wages, they know you will probably settle. Be aware!!!! They have NO problem just stealing the property if you refuse.
When you put it that way it sucks even more.
Around here you have the right to a jury trial on ED cases.
In some states, if the award comes back from the Court that is higher than the government's offer, then the government also pays your legal fees.
Correct me if I'm wrong...You are probably not going to have the option of just keeping your property. You may get a fair settlement..but..you are most likely going to have to give it up.
What if I decide that there is NO amount of money that would make me sell my property regardless of the amount a jury decides?
It is not for you to decide. Fair market value is established by an appraiser using comparable sales. If there are no comparable sales or you dispute them, you are given the opportunity to make your value case.
The market value of my wife's property is less than she owes on it. The city will ask some consultant what the fair market price is and she'll get hosed.