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+---- Thread: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates (/thread-365638.html)
Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - Zipfanatik - 04-19-2009 11:19 AM
During World War II, the Allies used innocent-looking cargo and transport ships known as Q-boats to invite German U-boats to attack them. The U-boats would surface to attack the ships to sink them with their deck gun. They did not want to waste a torpedo on these smaller nonmilitary ships. However, when the U-boats got within range, the sailors on the Q-boats would pull the canvas coverings off of their own hidden deck gun and sink the unsuspecting U-boat.
Many subs were sunk by Q-boats.
This concept would work against the Somali pirates. It would not take many decoy ships to patrol the Somali coast.
http://blog.cleveland.com/letters/2009/04/take_cues_from_world_war_ii_to.html
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - Tulsaman - 04-19-2009 11:30 AM
yep, i had this idea earlier. i just need the freighter and the arms.
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - Owl 69/70/75 - 04-19-2009 01:58 PM
So far we haven't shown much interest in sinking pirate boats with Q-boats or anything else. We still want to pursue this as a law enforcement operation. When we start to approach it as a military operation, we will see success. Wonder how many years that will take? And how many ships will be lost first?
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - Zipfanatik - 04-19-2009 02:28 PM
Using the Navy Seals was a good start. I don't know if the Coast Guard can be dispatched to protect shipping lanes that far away? It seems there could be an international policing agency to monitor all ship traffic in the area and maybe assign secret codes or something so that any unauthorized / unidentified vessel would get a torpedo up their :moon2:
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - Owl 69/70/75 - 04-19-2009 04:28 PM
(04-19-2009 02:28 PM)Zipfanatik Wrote: Using the Navy Seals was a good start. I don't know if the Coast Guard can be dispatched to protect shipping lanes that far away? It seems there could be an international policing agency to monitor all ship traffic in the area and maybe assign secret codes or something so that any unauthorized / unidentified vessel would get a torpedo up their :moon2:
Coast Guard can go anywhere. We used them in Nam.
Problem right now is that nobody is wanting to start sinking pirate ships. The focus is on criminal justice. Start sinking some of their boats and the pirates would lose some degree of interest.
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - steer - 04-19-2009 10:41 PM
(04-19-2009 11:19 AM)Zipfanatik Wrote: During World War II, the Allies used innocent-looking cargo and transport ships known as Q-boats to invite German U-boats to attack them. The U-boats would surface to attack the ships to sink them with their deck gun. They did not want to waste a torpedo on these smaller nonmilitary ships. However, when the U-boats got within range, the sailors on the Q-boats would pull the canvas coverings off of their own hidden deck gun and sink the unsuspecting U-boat.
Many subs were sunk by Q-boats.
This concept would work against the Somali pirates. It would not take many decoy ships to patrol the Somali coast.
http://blog.cleveland.com/letters/2009/04/take_cues_from_world_war_ii_to.html
From WW1:
![[Image: Q-ship_gun.jpg]](http://www.leander-project.homecall.co.uk/Leander/Q-ship_gun.jpg)
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - NIU007 - 04-20-2009 05:26 PM
(04-19-2009 01:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: So far we haven't shown much interest in sinking pirate boats with Q-boats or anything else. We still want to pursue this as a law enforcement operation. When we start to approach it as a military operation, we will see success. Wonder how many years that will take? And how many ships will be lost first?
I agree. What are they waiting for? I'd have to know more about the current tactics by the pirates, but one would think if we put any effort into it we could make it a pretty costly hobby for the pirates.
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - nomad2u2001 - 04-20-2009 07:40 PM
The coast guard technically can be deployed in such an operation. But I believe we have to be taken in by the DoD (which can happen during a declared war). Right now, our deployment units (PSUs) are mostly reservists that are under the command of active duty personnel, but they are out on the coast of Iraq as we speak.
We have the cutters, boats, aircraft, and personnel to do it (and Navy ships if need be). Just send some tactical coxswain and GMs from SMTC and you have a capable force.
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - Fo Shizzle - 04-20-2009 08:55 PM
(04-19-2009 01:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: So far we haven't shown much interest in sinking pirate boats with Q-boats or anything else. We still want to pursue this as a law enforcement operation. When we start to approach it as a military operation, we will see success. Wonder how many years that will take? And how many ships will be lost first?
I'd prefer this be a private property issue and these ships be allowed to protect themselves. Let the marketplace handle this.
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - nomad2u2001 - 04-20-2009 09:17 PM
No matter how good it sounds, that would never happen. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but it won't happen.
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - WoodlandsOwl - 04-20-2009 09:22 PM
(04-19-2009 04:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:(04-19-2009 02:28 PM)Zipfanatik Wrote: Using the Navy Seals was a good start. I don't know if the Coast Guard can be dispatched to protect shipping lanes that far away? It seems there could be an international policing agency to monitor all ship traffic in the area and maybe assign secret codes or something so that any unauthorized / unidentified vessel would get a torpedo up their :moon2:
Coast Guard can go anywhere. We used them in Nam.
Problem right now is that nobody is wanting to start sinking pirate ships. The focus is on criminal justice. Start sinking some of their boats and the pirates would lose some degree of interest.
I thought between you and I we had this problem solved...
If we can't/won't strike the land bases then we run convoys with UAV's P-3's and offshore based air support.
Other NATO members have LHA/LHD equivalents that can operate VSTOL attack jets and helos.
Take out the offshore motherships and close down their intelligence source within the maritime insurance and shipping companies, and that will help reduce the problem.
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - WoodlandsOwl - 04-20-2009 09:26 PM
(04-20-2009 08:55 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(04-19-2009 01:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: So far we haven't shown much interest in sinking pirate boats with Q-boats or anything else. We still want to pursue this as a law enforcement operation. When we start to approach it as a military operation, we will see success. Wonder how many years that will take? And how many ships will be lost first?
I'd prefer this be a private property issue and these ships be allowed to protect themselves. Let the marketplace handle this.
Give me an Application for Letter of Marque/Reprisal...
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - Fo Shizzle - 04-20-2009 09:41 PM
(04-20-2009 09:17 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote: No matter how good it sounds, that would never happen. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but it won't happen.
Oh I agree. With an industrial military complex that has a stranglehold on the policy making in Washington, I fully expect that some new weapon system is now in the works to attack these scary pirates. Instead of allowing the marketplace to handle this using private security or allowing them to arm themselves and protect their property, we will spend untold millions of stolen wages to address this problem. Government may be sorry,inefficient and wasteful...but...it is predictable.
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - Fo Shizzle - 04-20-2009 09:45 PM
(04-20-2009 09:26 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(04-20-2009 08:55 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(04-19-2009 01:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: So far we haven't shown much interest in sinking pirate boats with Q-boats or anything else. We still want to pursue this as a law enforcement operation. When we start to approach it as a military operation, we will see success. Wonder how many years that will take? And how many ships will be lost first?
I'd prefer this be a private property issue and these ships be allowed to protect themselves. Let the marketplace handle this.
Give me an Application for Letter of Marque/Reprisal...
Yes....and I'm sure there are those in the marketplace that would be happy to contract with these companies to provide the necessary security. This whole issue to me is so easily solved using the free market and private property rights. Why do we first look to the government for solutions, when the marketplace is sitting there begging to solve the problems??
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - WoodlandsOwl - 04-20-2009 09:50 PM
(04-20-2009 09:45 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(04-20-2009 09:26 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(04-20-2009 08:55 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(04-19-2009 01:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: So far we haven't shown much interest in sinking pirate boats with Q-boats or anything else. We still want to pursue this as a law enforcement operation. When we start to approach it as a military operation, we will see success. Wonder how many years that will take? And how many ships will be lost first?
I'd prefer this be a private property issue and these ships be allowed to protect themselves. Let the marketplace handle this.
Give me an Application for Letter of Marque/Reprisal...
Yes....and I'm sure there are those in the marketplace that would be happy to contract with these companies to provide the necessary security. This whole issue to me is so easily solved using the free market and private property rights. Why do we first look to the government for solutions, when the marketplace is sitting there begging to solve the problems??
Because "Blackwater" and "Dyncorp" are pretty much PNG around Washington DC right now.
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - smn1256 - 04-20-2009 09:56 PM
Guys, we forgot to add the Obama factor to the pirate equation. This is a letter to the editor in my local paper. This guy needs to join this forum.
Quote:So we have captured a pirate and are bringing him to New York for trial. How insensitive. This is an underprivileged young man who was just trying to make a living and clearly did not understand the consequences of his actions. We need to act quickly in this matter:
1. Apologize to the young man for disrupting his economic endeavors and for removing him from his family.
2. Send him home on a first class airline.
3. Pay him an annual stipend equal to what he might have made had we not interrupted his economic plan.
4. Apologize to Somalia for capturing one of its citizens and initiate a massive foreign aid program for Somalia so the leaders there can continue to live in a lavish manner.
5. Apologize to the U.N. for our untoward actions.
6. Apologize to the rest of the world for any anxiety we may have caused.
RE: Take cues from World War II to combat Somali pirates - Fo Shizzle - 04-20-2009 09:57 PM
(04-20-2009 09:50 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(04-20-2009 09:45 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(04-20-2009 09:26 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:(04-20-2009 08:55 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(04-19-2009 01:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: So far we haven't shown much interest in sinking pirate boats with Q-boats or anything else. We still want to pursue this as a law enforcement operation. When we start to approach it as a military operation, we will see success. Wonder how many years that will take? And how many ships will be lost first?
I'd prefer this be a private property issue and these ships be allowed to protect themselves. Let the marketplace handle this.
Give me an Application for Letter of Marque/Reprisal...
Yes....and I'm sure there are those in the marketplace that would be happy to contract with these companies to provide the necessary security. This whole issue to me is so easily solved using the free market and private property rights. Why do we first look to the government for solutions, when the marketplace is sitting there begging to solve the problems??
Because "Blackwater" and "Dyncorp" are pretty much PNG around Washington DC right now.
Then it sounds like an opportunity for competition to take market share by providing those services with better ethics and control. The difference is the when you contract with the government you do not have to respond to market signals. You just accept the stolen money and go about your business without much oversight. The free market does a pretty good job of "getting it's moneys worth".