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Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - Machiavelli - 02-01-2008 12:42 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/01/female-bombers-strike-mar_n_84427.html
I'm beginning to believe Iraq is a Rorshach. You will see what you want to see. I see dwindling finite resources being wasted in a land that we can not control. Your shaking a hornets nest and trying to control individual hornets.
The right sees this as a moral war. We created the mess and we need to fix it. We have set the bar so low for success that people actually believe that the surge is succeeding.
Ugggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - Zipfanatik - 02-01-2008 02:06 PM
The CIA either fumbled badly on WMD in Iraq or else they were complicit with the White House in wanting to go get Saddam. Either way we were destined to begin the Middle East cleanup after 9-11 and it has kept additional carnage out of the U.S. We the workers/innovators/taxpayers are the beacon of light in an otherwise sucky world.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - EastStang - 02-01-2008 02:39 PM
I think the CIA messed up and Bush saw what he wanted to see. I hope that this ordeal will teach us that we should not go into anything with the idea that we are going to build democracy or a nation anywhere in the world. America is a lousy occupier and I mean that in a good way. We are too ethical and moral to be a ruthless despotic conquorer. We are not Rome, we are not Britain, we are not Germany or Russia. But when you conquor a country that is what you have to be. And that is not America. My view is that if we get a problem from Al Quida, we just figure out who is harboring them, give them 24 hours to eradicate them, or we will bomb their country back to the stone age. They won't be able to export any problems if they have to spend all their time rebuilding their country. That would be far more effective than throwing out a dictator and trying to install democracy in a land where people don't want it or like each other or us.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - Rebel - 02-01-2008 02:45 PM
Really? REALLY? I think it reaffirms everything Bush said about these murderous pieces of **** (Not that I didn't agree with and understand before). They CANNOT be negotiated and must be smoked out and destroyed anywhere they're found. Have no fear though, there are still "certain" people that think Christians are the evil ones that must be destroyed. I'm not naming names but one of their initials is RobertN.
Radical Islam is NOT going away. You better stand up and fight, or continue being obtuse while they build their base to a scale you cannot defend against. Think it's an American problem? Think it's a Bush problem? Tell that to Africa. Tell that to England. Tell that to France. Tell that to the Netherlands. Tell that to Malaysia. Tell that to the Philippines. Tell that to Indonesia. Tell that to India. Tell that to Spain. Tell that to Chechnya. Tell that to the Balkans. Make no mistake, this isn't a problem that was caused by the "evil United States".
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - GGniner - 02-01-2008 02:51 PM
Michael Moore’s Freedom Fighters and Minutemen at work!
RebelKev Wrote:Radical Islam is NOT going away. You better stand up and fight, or continue being obtuse while they build their base to a scale you cannot defend against. Think it's an American problem? Think it's a Bush problem? Tell that to Africa. Tell that to England. Tell that to France. Tell that to the Netherlands. Tell that to Malaysia. Tell that to the Philippines. Tell that to Indonesia. Tell that to India. Tell that to Spain. Tell that to Chechnya. Tell that to the Balkans. Make no mistake, this isn't a problem that was caused by the "evil United States".
and.....Algeria the other day:
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h8VARl2xCkIhIhClBwbV-RjsTwog
Quote:Suicide bomber kills four in Algeria
3 days ago
THENIA, Algeria (AFP) — A suicide bomber drove into a hail of bullets to set off a bomb outside a police station in eastern Algeria that security services said killed four people and injured 20.
this just goes to show how absolutely barbaric the Jihadist are and how they can not be reasoned with, ever. They just took retarded women, placed bombs on them and sent into a market and remote detonated them. They will do absolutely anything, anywhere...the only question is the battlefield they choose.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - GGniner - 02-01-2008 02:56 PM
EastStang Wrote:just figure out who is harboring them, give them 24 hours to eradicate them, or we will bomb their country back to the stone age.
Saddam was one of the dictators "harboring" Al-Qaida, and hamas and other Jihadist. The question is, after you take these dictators out and their ability to harbor and financially aide these terrorist, what do you do with the country. Leave, and let Iran take over and/or chaos. Or rebuild it and influence it the way we did South Korea, Japan, Germany, etc. And since the area has the most important resource to our way of life and the free flow if it is critical to our very lives, kinda hard to just bail.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - RobertN - 02-01-2008 03:17 PM
GGniner Wrote:EastStang Wrote:just figure out who is harboring them, give them 24 hours to eradicate them, or we will bomb their country back to the stone age.
Saddam was one of the dictators "harboring" Al-Qaida, and hamas and other Jihadist. The question is, after you take these dictators out and their ability to harbor and financially aide these terrorist, what do you do with the country. Leave, and let Iran take over and/or chaos. Or rebuild it and influence it the way we did South Korea, Japan, Germany, etc. And since the area has the most important resource to our way of life and the free flow if it is critical to our very lives, kinda hard to just bail.
He supported the Palestinians NOT Al Qaida. That is why we went to war. Israel wanted this to be stopped but didn't have the balls to do it themselves.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - EastStang - 02-01-2008 03:31 PM
Leave it in chaos, let the leader have to clean up the mess in his own country and deal with the people who will try and kill him, and let whomever wanted to move in and deal with those nut jobs, more power to them. Suddenly countries that harbor these terrorists would go hmm, they're serious. If we don't turn these guys over to them, my country is toast and they won't give us money to rebuild or send their soldiers over for our people to shoot at after they've done the damage. South Koreans, Germans and Japanese are different. They don't have these 600 year old grudges dating back to the Crusades.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - GGniner - 02-01-2008 03:31 PM
RobertN Wrote:
Clinton Justice Dept. Indictment of Bin Laden: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/11/98110602_nlt.html
Quote:Additionally, the indictment states that Al Qaeda reached an agreement
with Iraq not to work against the regime of Saddam Hussein and that
they would work cooperatively with Iraq, particularly in weapons
development.
----
4. Al Qaeda also forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in
the Sudan and with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist
group Hezballah for the purpose of working together against their
perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States.
In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of
Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on
particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al
Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.
1999 CNN: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has offered asylum to bin Laden, who openly supports Iraq against the Western powers.
also see Salman Pak, the 1993 WTC bombers who were AL-Qaida, etc.
None of these means we have "proof" he was connected to 9/11, but that he definitely had ties to Al-Qaeda. And Hamas, who he was openly paying families of SUICIDE BOMBERS $20K
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - GGniner - 02-01-2008 03:38 PM
Some Democrats did connect 9/11 to Saddam however: Democrat Senator Fritz Hollins, placed into the Official Senate Record on Sept. 12, 2002 an Iraqi State Owned Newspaper Editorial from July 23, 2001 predicting 9/11 by Bin laden and including all 3 the targets:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2002_record&page=S8525&position=all
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - GGniner - 02-01-2008 03:44 PM
EastStang Wrote:Leave it in chaos, let the leader have to clean up the mess in his own country and deal with the people who will try and kill him, and let whomever wanted to move in and deal with those nut jobs, more power to them.
and when Iran moves in to take over, and world Oil Prices go to unreal heights bringing down the worlds economy?
Or the new dictator, in effort to save his own butt and stop suicide bombings, agrees with the barbaric terrorist like Al-Qaeda and others to work with them, fund them, give them training ground(like Salman Pak),etc and turns into another "State Sponsor of Terrorism" like Saddam was, then what?
fortunately, terrorist by in large have been getting their butts handed to them the last year or so over there. Attacks like this with the US viewed as the good guys go along way as to why.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - Hambone10 - 02-01-2008 04:41 PM
I read recently, and from a reliable source (like in the WSJ) unfortunately I can't recall the link), that Saddam freely admitted when he was captured that he lied about WMD, and took steps to convince people (he claimed the Iranians though some think it was the Kurds) that he actually had them, despite the UN sanctions etc. He didn't believe we'd do anything other than a limited air raid... and the truck movement was for the purpose of maintaining the POSSIBILITY that he still had them, even after the strike. He was obviously effective, as he convinced the Israelis and the members of the Senate Intelligence committee (including the democrats on there) in addition to the CIA (the FBI is domestic) and Bush and his cabinet. Further, he convinced the Un Inspectors that he wasn't being honest when he said he DIDN'T have them.
Solving the "radical Islam" problem is better served in Iraq than anywhere else. Its not about Bin Laden, there are hundreds lined up to replace him... If you don't think they're after us, you're crazy... and while we may not be winning any friends (that remains to be seen) we are certainly keeping them fighting us there, rather than here.
As for leaving them alone.... that is part of the problem... The way you control a person whom you are oppressing is to convince them that you HAVE to oppress them to protect them from "the great Satan". Pretty easy when you don't have a free press, which is one of the things we're REALLY trying to foster over there... Worked for Hitler... among many others.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - RobertN - 02-01-2008 04:53 PM
GGniner Wrote:I am not going to respond to your posts because all this crap as been proven to be wrong but even if I wasted my time trying to convince you it would do no good because you will alway belive what you believe because your news sources and President believe it. Yes, there were MANY democrats who believed it. At one point 80 some % believed Iraq had WMD and was going to attack us with nukes at any time.RobertN Wrote:
Clinton Justice Dept. Indictment of Bin Laden: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/11/98110602_nlt.html
Quote:Additionally, the indictment states that Al Qaeda reached an agreement
with Iraq not to work against the regime of Saddam Hussein and that
they would work cooperatively with Iraq, particularly in weapons
development.
----
4. Al Qaeda also forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in
the Sudan and with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist
group Hezballah for the purpose of working together against their
perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States.
In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of
Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on
particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al
Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.
1999 CNN: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has offered asylum to bin Laden, who openly supports Iraq against the Western powers.
also see Salman Pak, the 1993 WTC bombers who were AL-Qaida, etc.
None of these means we have "proof" he was connected to 9/11, but that he definitely had ties to Al-Qaeda. And Hamas, who he was openly paying families of SUICIDE BOMBERS $20K
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - Hambone10 - 02-01-2008 05:16 PM
RobertN Wrote:GGniner Wrote:I am not going to respond to your posts because all this crap as been proven to be wrong but even if I wasted my time trying to convince you it would do no good because you will alway belive what you believe because your news sources and President believe it. Yes, there were MANY democrats who believed it. At one point 80 some % believed Iraq had WMD and was going to attack us with nukes at any time.RobertN Wrote:
Clinton Justice Dept. Indictment of Bin Laden: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/11/98110602_nlt.html
Quote:Additionally, the indictment states that Al Qaeda reached an agreement
with Iraq not to work against the regime of Saddam Hussein and that
they would work cooperatively with Iraq, particularly in weapons
development.
----
4. Al Qaeda also forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in
the Sudan and with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist
group Hezballah for the purpose of working together against their
perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States.
In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of
Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on
particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al
Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.
1999 CNN: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has offered asylum to bin Laden, who openly supports Iraq against the Western powers.
also see Salman Pak, the 1993 WTC bombers who were AL-Qaida, etc.
None of these means we have "proof" he was connected to 9/11, but that he definitely had ties to Al-Qaeda. And Hamas, who he was openly paying families of SUICIDE BOMBERS $20K
Dude, seriously... while this MAY (or may not, I don't know) have been "Proven" wrong, the fact that it comes from a party OTHER than Bush's means that it was a commonly held belief at the time, rather than a partisan "make the argument fit the conclusion" that so many espouse.
You can accuse Bush of taking the threat more seriously, of being less patient, of being more aggressive than his predecessor... though given the mood after 9/11, I think even Bill would have had a shorter leash... but DON'T act like the thought process was out of the mainstream at the time.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - WoodlandsOwl - 02-01-2008 07:47 PM
Only AQ-I is sicks enough to do this type of operation.. and its par for the course since their one-time Iraqi Sunni allies sold them out to the CIA.... The Iraqi Sunnis wanted nothing more of the insanity of AQ.
As for the mysterious Iraqi WMD’s that may (or may not exist)..
1. As of Operation Desert Fox (December 1998) air raids launched after Saddam initially tossed out the UN Inspectors…there WERE unaccounted and undisclosed chemical and biological agents, as well as nuclear weapons research and ongoing intermediate range ballistic missile programs. The UN even said so..
2. As for the “source” or “sources” of “faulty” WMD Intelligence.. Here are several explanations:
A. Consistent with Saddam’s disinformation policy, Saddam’s agents leaked/broadcast false and misleading information concerning what WMD’s Iraq had in place in 2001-2002. We picked it up. Or maybe we picked up the lies and false reports of Iraqi military research into missile and nuclear projects.
OR
B. The CIA was intentionally fed disinformation concerning Iraqi WMD’s from double agents from a regional power that was eager to “take out” Saddam. Now this could be Chalbi and the Iraqi National Congress (who we now know had ties to Iran) or it could be the Israelis (who were tired of hearing Saddam’s “I’m going to burn Israel up” crap, or it could be the Iranian Mullahs hoping to take advantage from regional destabilization.
OR
C. Everything was faked, all set up, George Bush lied, blah blah blah, and by the way Bush faked 9/11 and blew up the World Trade Center himself..
OR
D. The CIA is so totally incompetent and 100% politicized that they do whatever Bush/Cheney tell them to do, including lying to Congress, the Pentagon, etc.
Based upon the these alternatives “C” and “D” are WRONG… and if you buy into these two, you deserve to be locked up with Britney Spears.
“A” and “B” are possibilities. An Intelligence Estimate that Iraqi WMD’s exist is a not developed in a vacuum. The CIA compared their data with the information gathered from NATO Intelligence Agencies, Israeli Intelligence, and Australian Intelligence. Apparently it all substantially matched up. This could be that all the intelligence agencies had incorrect data from a “common source.” This is like the situation when a bunch of students all screw up an exam because they all used the same “study sheet” with the wrong answer. Now who supplied the information and under what circumstances is a different story…..
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - Machiavelli - 02-02-2008 11:12 AM
I'll go with What is B. for Justification.
My main problem with the whole fiasco is we went in unprepared for a war of our CHOOSING. We choose the time and place and we don't have proper freakin body armor. "You go in with the army that you have" b.s. I think more planning went into, "Trinity High School Holiday Parade" than our occupation. We looked for any evidence to justify an attack and ignored any evidence contrary.
Here's the diamond. Here's the reason WHY.
We saw him as an easy target and ignored the history of the place. We thought we could set up shop, prop up a puppet, and keep an oil spicket open for the next 75 years. It was the classic nation build. Let's put a democracy right smack in the Middle East. The right convinced themselves of this Disneyland with ALL the ancillary benefits. Why wouldn't we invade??????????? Why would we need armored Humvees? They'll greet us with flowers. Body armor for our troops? You don't need that for 6 O'clock tea. Why gaurd the largest military installation with high grade explosives? Iraqi's will have no need for things like that anymore. 100% of the population will love us.
This is what the majority of American's is upset about. The arrogant and unremorseful policies of this administration. I understand the need of some of wanting to leave it better than we found it. That is a main staple of mind when I give speeches to kids. I always say "Leave things better than when you found them". It's a great life motto, but when you make a mistake. Three things you do: 1. Admit it. 2. Learn from it. 3. Don't ever repeat it.
This administration and many on here are still in denia. You think it was a good thing in going in. It wasn't. I understand part of the remaining 30% who want to stay in because they don't want to make it worse, but many on this board still think it was right to go in. We have to learn from our mistakes.
I frequently visit yahoo finance boards. These are the money making, 5 bagger, long and shorting productive members of our society. You wouldn't believe how many of them are Ron Paul fans. They LOVE the guy. Some would die for him. I'm going to just paste some of the things they say about him. The Republican party is imploding, and a big reason why is because of this Iraq fiasco. You can't hide truth from people. Eventually they will figure it out. That's where we are at.
Here's two post. The 1st guy is a finan guru.
My Experience at the Denver Ron Paul Rally Tonight!
F'ing Amazing! The Rally was held at the 4 Season's Grand Ballroom at the Denver Convention Center. To put this in context the Denver Convention center was selected to host the democratic national convention this year - this is the largest/best ballroom at the convention center.
NO Audience in History will ever surpass the excitment tonight!!! (even when the Dems meet here later this year to select there official candidate).
When I first heard Dr. Paul speak tonight, my heart was in my throat and I could barely mutter the words "Ron Paul, Ron Paul" - it was profound (my eyes swelled). It was one of the only times In my life (30 yrs of them) - that I have ever been overcome by emotion..
Between 3,000 - 5,000 people stuffed into this ballroom that only sat (very comfortably) 1,600. Personally I think it was well past the 4,000 mark - as the number of people standing or sitting in the aisles (or in the hallway outside) outnumbered the people with seats easily 5 to 1 (1,600 people were sitting, but hardly anyone at all had a seat)
Paul's speech was great (It was my first time hearing him live) - he had all the common elements plus many new enlightenments and talking points (and lasted at least 45 minutes). At many times the whole crowd erupted in profound and uncontrollable chants of "Ron Paul, Ron Paul" - the enthuthiasm of which I can not adequately convey with mere words (watch the video).
When he talked about the Federal Reserve and Central banks - everyone chanted ("end the fed, end the fed, end the fed -- YEAH")!!!!! - This was an amazing response, and clear vision to end the most harmful and destructive policy (to the middle/upper class) of the current government/ruling class elitists.
---
Tonight I realized that I would DIE (give up my life willingly) for the message (of freedom and peace) that Ron Paul (AND YOU) spreads -- Ron knows that this is not his message, BUT OUR MESSAGE. Ron is a talking head - (a good one) but only that. I'm in it, all the way to the end. RON PAUL! RON PAUL! Let us not ever forget!
Tomorrow I will be canvassing and putting up more signs - It's only going to work if you do the same! YOU must spread the word, we are still few.
great story, i just cannot see why more voters are not being swayed over to ron paul. to see our country going down hill so fast, and people not recgnizing it, is just amazing. how long have we been off the gold standard? look what the gov has done to our money. its almost worthless. a war thay is costing us $500,000.00@ hour, and all those boys lost in a war that means soo little. hillary, obama, mccain, they are a joke. mccain says stay in iraq for 100 years. is he a @#$%ing moron or not? i can,t beleive there is a bigger idiot than busch, but maybe there is? went to the grocery store yesterday and bought a dozen eggs. $2.05@ dozen, six months ago they were $0.95@ dozen, no inflation though, right? yesterday winter red wheat hit $14.00@ bushel. fertilizer was $200.00@ ton, this spring $500.00@ ton. the feed mills won,t even give you a price on urea for spring planting. you wait, this fall we will be paying triple the price we are paying for our food supplies. wake up people.
Just my two cents.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - WoodlandsOwl - 02-02-2008 07:13 PM
Machiavelli Wrote:I'll go with What is B. for Justification.
I freely admit that ther CPA was FUBAR. Gen. Garner didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. And Jerry Bremer was only slightly better.
The US Military is designed to destroy things and kill people....
Not "Nation build" on a large scale as we learned in Somalia.
There was no proper plan for the Occupation established ahead of time. The Insurgency wasn't anticipated in the degree seen.
Had the 4th ID been able to go south from Turkey, things might have been different.. US forces would have been able to exercise some control of the West and North much quicker. Had we had substantial forces in Al-Anbar, it would have been different.
Anyway, the best battle plan barely survives first contact with the enemy. We "winged it" and prevailed over threats and obstacles not anticipated.
Hey, Im sure Tenet was totally humiliated when there were no WMD's found after he promised a "slam dunk"....
Was the US "set up" with disinformation to start the war... I'd have to say "Yes' to some degree.
But we are in Iraq now. So the only option is to "win"...and if it takes dividing the place in thirds, so be it.
Winston Churchill was drunk with a pencil and a protractor when he created Iraq... we can always erase the lines to a more 'natural solution" if necessary.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - Hambone10 - 02-02-2008 10:21 PM
The Bush adinisration did not design the Humvee without armor. We have the military we have because we believed (15+ years ago) that battles in the streets would not happen,.. NOT because we believed 5 years ago that they would,
You fight the battle with the military you have... and Neither Bush nor Cheney nor Rumsfeld designed the battle plans and troop/armament requests. They may have decided the goals, but they did not choose the pieces. If you think they did, you know nothing about the Military.
More importantly... we have crazy effers blowing themselves up for their cause, and we're worried about what the world thinks of US?? How come nobody is saying these are lunatics that are a danger to the world?? BECAUSE THEY ARE!!!
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - georgia_tech_swagger - 02-02-2008 10:52 PM
The problem:
- The US should never start a War, unprovoked, for any reason.
- The US should never start a War, based strictly on "intelligence", unless it's a viable threat to the US and they're 100% sure their intelligence is right.
- The US should not be the policemen of the world. Sure there are crazy mofos all around the world killing innocent people. But it's not our job to fix all wrongs in the world. We can't afford it, it frequently causes resentment, it's a breeding ground for corruption and profiteering, and we can't depend on people on other nations to ultimately clean up a mess that they weren't motivated enough to take on themselves.
The US should have a massive CIA, armed not strictly with an army of robots and cameras, but with a ton of analysts to actually intelligently interpret intelligence. We should not be invading our rights here at home. But we should be an ominous black cloud on every other nation's shores. We should have a policy of putting the fear of God, Allah, whatever into them. When they start plotting attacks on the US, they need to understand they'll have a Tomahawk to cuddle up to one night.
RE: Some sick sick fckin people- Wired up Trisomy 21 women to blow up market - Hambone10 - 02-03-2008 11:03 PM
GTS, i generally agree with you, and you can blame the 70's for the fact that we don't. When we decided that our undercover operatives couldn't break the law, all our enemies had to do was tell them to ill someone, and they were outed, and killed themselves.
War is ugly, and we are trying to fight it clean. It's not gonna happen, at least not effectively.
Perhaps if we let our military be a military, and didn't call them until we wanted a problem ELIMINATED, rather than all of these police actions, we wouldn't have messes like this.
When you call the military in, send the press home.... It'll be ugly, and it'll be over... THEN we can go about trying to put some lipstick on it.