+- CSNbbs (https://csnbbs.com)
+-- Forum: Active Boards (/forum-769.html)
+--- Forum: Lounge (/forum-564.html)
+---- Forum: The Spin Room (/forum-540.html)
+---- Thread: Russian interference in Baltics (/thread-1007154.html)
Russian interference in Baltics - Todor - 02-27-2025 03:58 AM
February 8, Estonian Foreign Minister declares Estonianis now free of Russian energy, Moscow can not longer use energy as a weapon against us…
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c627d55v07go
February 19, Estonias largest paper mill shuts down due to high energy prices. Lays off hundreds of employees. Estonia found out.
https://www.naturalnews.com/2025-02-19-energy-prices-estonia-cause-paper-mill-shutdown.html
Rinse and repeat in thousands of factories across Europe lol.
US will have to continue to pay to defend them, since they are broke, or they will realize the NATO is a bankrupt paper tiger that was only interested in their geography as a place to attack Russia.
We all know we are going to keep paying.
I also remember all those years Russia “interfered”in Ukraine by providing below market rate energy rates.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - BlueDragon - 02-27-2025 08:02 AM
It doesn’t really matter how pathetic NATO is.
Russia has already proven to be so inept on the battlefield that even NATO forces would kick their azzes east of Moscow.
The last impressive weapon fired by Russia had to import German and Japanese technology.
BTW, you spew so much about the Russian economy I thought I’d let you in on a glaring fact. TEXAS ECONOMY IS LARGER THAN THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY.
Hope this gives you some perspective
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - Was SoMs Eagle - 02-27-2025 08:27 AM
(02-27-2025 03:58 AM)Todor Wrote: February 8, Estonian Foreign Minister declares Estonianis now free of Russian energy, Moscow can not longer use energy as a weapon against us…
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c627d55v07go
February 19, Estonias largest paper mill shuts down due to high energy prices. Lays off hundreds of employees. Estonia found out.
https://www.naturalnews.com/2025-02-19-energy-prices-estonia-cause-paper-mill-shutdown.html
Rinse and repeat in thousands of factories across Europe lol.
US will have to continue to pay to defend them, since they are broke, or they will realize the NATO is a bankrupt paper tiger that was only interested in their geography as a place to attack Russia.
We all know we are going to keep paying.
I also remember all those years Russia “interfered”in Ukraine by providing below market rate energy rates.
And you are part of the plot. Why don’t you Russians win in Ukraine first, then you can go on to the Baltics and Moldova. Poland however is going to be a little bit of a problem for the dwarf tyrants imperialist visions.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - b0ndsj0ns - 02-27-2025 08:48 AM
(02-27-2025 08:02 AM)BlueDragon Wrote: It doesn’t really matter how pathetic NATO is.
Russia has already proven to be so inept on the battlefield that even NATO forces would kick their azzes east of Moscow.
The last impressive weapon fired by Russia had to import German and Japanese technology.
BTW, you spew so much about the Russian economy I thought I’d let you in on a glaring fact. TEXAS ECONOMY IS LARGER THAN THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY.
Hope this gives you some perspective
NATO would wipe the floor with them as long as we are backing it. If it was up to just the Europeans vs the Russian's I'm betting on the Russian's.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - HawkeyeCoug - 02-27-2025 09:11 AM
The world really is a better place when we can get along with Russia. However, Estonia has a history of being invaded by Russia, and has a large Russian population that Putin can use as an excuse to invade if they are being "oppressed" (a tactic that has been used for centuries by many countries in Europe). They have a right to be cautious.
(02-27-2025 03:58 AM)Todor Wrote: February 8, Estonian Foreign Minister declares Estonianis now free of Russian energy, Moscow can not longer use energy as a weapon against us…
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c627d55v07go
February 19, Estonias largest paper mill shuts down due to high energy prices. Lays off hundreds of employees. Estonia found out.
https://www.naturalnews.com/2025-02-19-energy-prices-estonia-cause-paper-mill-shutdown.html
Rinse and repeat in thousands of factories across Europe lol.
US will have to continue to pay to defend them, since they are broke, or they will realize the NATO is a bankrupt paper tiger that was only interested in their geography as a place to attack Russia.
We all know we are going to keep paying.
I also remember all those years Russia “interfered”in Ukraine by providing below market rate energy rates.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - bullet - 02-27-2025 09:37 AM
(02-27-2025 08:48 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:(02-27-2025 08:02 AM)BlueDragon Wrote: It doesn’t really matter how pathetic NATO is.
Russia has already proven to be so inept on the battlefield that even NATO forces would kick their azzes east of Moscow.
The last impressive weapon fired by Russia had to import German and Japanese technology.
BTW, you spew so much about the Russian economy I thought I’d let you in on a glaring fact. TEXAS ECONOMY IS LARGER THAN THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY.
Hope this gives you some perspective
NATO would wipe the floor with them as long as we are backing it. If it was up to just the Europeans vs the Russian's I'm betting on the Russian's.
Putin’s game is to have some minority, preferably Russian, be aggrieved and take over part of a country. He will send in mercenaries to back them up. For a US example, see what Antifa did in Seattle. Then he dares people to use force to kick them out. Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine all used the same pattern. Estonia and Latvia have large Russian minorities.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - bullet - 02-27-2025 09:38 AM
Armenia was the same thing although I don’t know how much Russia drove that. Internally they had to deal with Chechnya.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - shere khan - 02-27-2025 10:35 AM
I suspect USAID fingerprints to be found all over this
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - banker - 02-27-2025 12:05 PM
Wait till the US starts undercutting Russian pricing with LNG sales in Europe. Remember how Rockefeller built Standard Oil? We have deep enough pockets to bankrupt Russia in the energy market.
Of course, unlike Putin, we are merciful and don’t want to destroy the Russian people for our own personal gain.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - Todor - 02-27-2025 09:03 PM
Without cheap Russian energy, European industrial capacity is finished.
Instead of selling gas to Europe, Russia will sell it to China, China will make the products and export the, to Europe. It doesnt make that much difference to Russia because they will sell the energy regardless.
Europes loss. In this case, its Estonias loss and they are going to end up with higher unemployment, triple the price for their energy, and a lower standard of living.
And even as they voluntarily cut the power lines in their side, they keep claiming Russia is cutting off their power. Just like the rest of Europe has claimed.
There is nothing the US or Europe can do to help them.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - banker - 02-27-2025 09:07 PM
(02-27-2025 09:03 PM)Todor Wrote: Without cheap Russian energy, European industrial capacity is finished.
Instead of selling gas to Europe, Russia will sell it to China, China will make the products and export the, to Europe. It doesnt make that much difference to Russia because they will sell the energy regardless.
Europes loss. In this case, its Estonias loss and they are going to end up with higher unemployment, triple the price for their energy, and a lower standard of living.
And even as they voluntarily cut the power lines in their side, they keep claiming Russia is cutting off their power. Just like the rest of Europe has claimed.
There is nothing the US or Europe can do to help them.
You need to vary your propaganda sources.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - Todor - 02-27-2025 09:12 PM
(02-27-2025 09:07 PM)banker Wrote:(02-27-2025 09:03 PM)Todor Wrote: Without cheap Russian energy, European industrial capacity is finished.
Instead of selling gas to Europe, Russia will sell it to China, China will make the products and export the, to Europe. It doesnt make that much difference to Russia because they will sell the energy regardless.
Europes loss. In this case, its Estonias loss and they are going to end up with higher unemployment, triple the price for their energy, and a lower standard of living.
And even as they voluntarily cut the power lines in their side, they keep claiming Russia is cutting off their power. Just like the rest of Europe has claimed.
There is nothing the US or Europe can do to help them.
You need to vary your propaganda sources.
What did I say that was factually incorrect?
I’ll wait…
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - banker - 02-27-2025 11:58 PM
(02-27-2025 09:12 PM)Todor Wrote:(02-27-2025 09:07 PM)banker Wrote:(02-27-2025 09:03 PM)Todor Wrote: Without cheap Russian energy, European industrial capacity is finished.
Instead of selling gas to Europe, Russia will sell it to China, China will make the products and export the, to Europe. It doesnt make that much difference to Russia because they will sell the energy regardless.
Europes loss. In this case, its Estonias loss and they are going to end up with higher unemployment, triple the price for their energy, and a lower standard of living.
And even as they voluntarily cut the power lines in their side, they keep claiming Russia is cutting off their power. Just like the rest of Europe has claimed.
There is nothing the US or Europe can do to help them.
You need to vary your propaganda sources.
What did I say that was factually incorrect?
I’ll wait…
You paint Russia as benevolent, providing their neighbors with cheap energy that they can obtain from no other source at near that price. You ignore that it’s not a carrot, but a stick to exert control and influence.
Freedom for those countries can only come from breaking that dependence, not from continuing its use.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - Todor - 02-28-2025 02:14 AM
(02-27-2025 11:58 PM)banker Wrote:(02-27-2025 09:12 PM)Todor Wrote:(02-27-2025 09:07 PM)banker Wrote:(02-27-2025 09:03 PM)Todor Wrote: Without cheap Russian energy, European industrial capacity is finished.
Instead of selling gas to Europe, Russia will sell it to China, China will make the products and export the, to Europe. It doesnt make that much difference to Russia because they will sell the energy regardless.
Europes loss. In this case, its Estonias loss and they are going to end up with higher unemployment, triple the price for their energy, and a lower standard of living.
And even as they voluntarily cut the power lines in their side, they keep claiming Russia is cutting off their power. Just like the rest of Europe has claimed.
There is nothing the US or Europe can do to help them.
You need to vary your propaganda sources.
What did I say that was factually incorrect?
I’ll wait…
You paint Russia as benevolent, providing their neighbors with cheap energy that they can obtain from no other source at near that price. You ignore that it’s not a carrot, but a stick to exert control and influence.
Freedom for those countries can only come from breaking that dependence, not from continuing its use.
The only thing I presented were facts that you just don’t like.
Estonia, like Germany, and the rest of Europe was ALWAYS free to buy any energy they want to from anyone in the world.
They chose Russia because they don’t have the money to buy it elsewhere.
Then they blame Russia for agreeing to sell it to them.
Just like they would blame Russia if they WOULDNT sell it to them.
And just like they would blame Russia if they didn’t sell it cheap enough.
Just like they blame Russia for seeking it too cheap and thereby getting them used to cheap energy.
Seeing a trend?
Nothing Russia does, or will ever do is ever enough.
Fortunately for Russia, there are plenty of more reasonable people to deal with in the world.
So now Estonia is importing electricity from elsewhere in Europe, also fueled by Russian gas I might add, and they are paying 3 times the rates and bankrupting themselves. And they are still not “free” of Russian energy. They still pay Russia. They just pay 3 middleman countries for the privilege.
They played themselves.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - banker - 02-28-2025 03:15 AM
Maybe people wouldn’t be so harsh on Russia if they didn’t invade neighboring countries and their leader didn’t assassinate so many people.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - Todor - 02-28-2025 08:00 AM
(02-28-2025 03:15 AM)banker Wrote: Maybe people wouldn’t be so harsh on Russia if they didn’t invade neighboring countries and their leader didn’t assassinate so many people.
People will be harsh on Russia as long as it exists as an independent nation, with its own foreign policy, and its own monetary policy. That’s just a fact. In other words, unless they’re working for foreigners, its going to be a target.
It’s always something. If the topic of Europes self inflicted energy crisis being blamed on Russia, people jisr change the topics to something else and say that’s the issue.
Hate to tell you friend, but the US has invaded many countries and assassinated plenty of people.
Find a conflict, and you’ll find nato and the west involved. We are on their borders. They aren’t on ours.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - Was SoMs Eagle - 02-28-2025 08:29 AM
(02-28-2025 08:00 AM)Todor Wrote:(02-28-2025 03:15 AM)banker Wrote: Maybe people wouldn’t be so harsh on Russia if they didn’t invade neighboring countries and their leader didn’t assassinate so many people.
People will be harsh on Russia as long as it exists as an independent nation, with its own foreign policy, and its own monetary policy. That’s just a fact. In other words, unless they’re working for foreigners, its going to be a target.
It’s always something. If the topic of Europes self inflicted energy crisis being blamed on Russia, people jisr change the topics to something else and say that’s the issue.
Hate to tell you friend, but the US has invaded many countries and assassinated plenty of people.
Find a conflict, and you’ll find nato and the west involved. We are on their borders. They aren’t on ours.
Poor Russia. According to you no one likes them. Not so fast Ivan. The mullahs love them. The little rocket man loves them. Dictator for life Xi (well kinda) likes them. The Syrian tyrant loves them so much he moved there. Yeah poor Russia does have a problem. That problem seems to be picking friends. As we all know, you will be judged by the company you keep.
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - Todor - 02-28-2025 09:24 AM
(02-28-2025 08:29 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:(02-28-2025 08:00 AM)Todor Wrote:(02-28-2025 03:15 AM)banker Wrote: Maybe people wouldn’t be so harsh on Russia if they didn’t invade neighboring countries and their leader didn’t assassinate so many people.
People will be harsh on Russia as long as it exists as an independent nation, with its own foreign policy, and its own monetary policy. That’s just a fact. In other words, unless they’re working for foreigners, its going to be a target.
It’s always something. If the topic of Europes self inflicted energy crisis being blamed on Russia, people jisr change the topics to something else and say that’s the issue.
Hate to tell you friend, but the US has invaded many countries and assassinated plenty of people.
Find a conflict, and you’ll find nato and the west involved. We are on their borders. They aren’t on ours.
Poor Russia. According to you no one likes them. Not so fast Ivan. The mullahs love them. The little rocket man loves them. Dictator for life Xi (well kinda) likes them. The Syrian tyrant loves them so much he moved there. Yeah poor Russia does have a problem. That problem seems to be picking friends. As we all know, you will be judged by the company you keep.
As usual, you’re wrong. I never said no one likes them.
Countries that have used up their resources think they are clever enough to weasel a way to get control of Russia’s and when they can’t, they throw hissy fits and lash out.
Meanwhile, the US has plenty of “allies” lined up at the trough for free stuff. $37 trillion worth of “friends.”
#StupidVotersGetStupidGovernments
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - shere khan - 02-28-2025 10:48 AM
The whole "its russian propaganda" youre a "putin lover" bullshite is so tired. It means youve lost the argument
At least provide sources that refute.
FFS
RE: Russian interference in Baltics - Attackcoog - 02-28-2025 12:35 PM
Pretty sure Trump was the one who warned Europeans against relying on Russia for energy and told them it was a mistake back in his first term. Said it could be used as a weapon against them. The Germans laughed at him. The reality is, he wasnt wrong.