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RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - Brookes Owl - 09-09-2019 01:57 PM
(09-09-2019 10:23 AM)EverRespect Wrote:(09-08-2019 09:51 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: 100's of thousands of deaths annually due to tobacco..and it is still legal. Think about that for a second.
How is that determined? Kind of like the drunk guy that was rear ended while sitting at a red light. Goes in the stats as "alcohol related", but the alcohol had nothing to do with the cause. Also why nobody believes anything the government of special interest organizations puts out. Tobacco is definitely bad for you, but smoking a cigarette isn't going to kill you. Chronic, long-term use may hasten your death a bit and you might drop dead of a heart attack at 60, but if it wasn't the cigarettes, who is to say it wouldn't be something else? Or who is to say that someone that gets a heart attack at 60 wouldn't have gotten on anyway even s/he didn't smoke. Lung cancer is pretty unique to smoking and affects about 3%. If you want to attribute those deaths to smoking, I'll give it to you, but it isn't hundreds of thousands per year. If you want to blame the cigarettes on every death of someone that happens to be a smoker, well, that's why nobody believes it and it is still legal.
There are thousands of research papers that have been published on this subject. Volumes of epidemiological studies connect smoking to lung cancer, heart disease, etc. Your concerns, which raise (well, raised) very good questions, are legitimate problems when studies are not rigorous and develop correlation without causation. But tobacco use has been studied exceptionally rigorously. The kinds of examples you use above just don't slip through the cracks of studies this thorough.
Of course, it's vaping that hasn't been very thoroughly studied. A study that was just published connects vaping-related respiratory disease to illegal THC products. There's a long way to go - I don't know why we'd be looking at banning something that appears to be a good way to get folks off smoking.
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - bobdizole - 09-09-2019 02:02 PM
First Marker Found for mysterious vaping illness
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - EverRespect - 09-09-2019 03:43 PM
(09-09-2019 01:57 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:(09-09-2019 10:23 AM)EverRespect Wrote:(09-08-2019 09:51 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: 100's of thousands of deaths annually due to tobacco..and it is still legal. Think about that for a second.
How is that determined? Kind of like the drunk guy that was rear ended while sitting at a red light. Goes in the stats as "alcohol related", but the alcohol had nothing to do with the cause. Also why nobody believes anything the government of special interest organizations puts out. Tobacco is definitely bad for you, but smoking a cigarette isn't going to kill you. Chronic, long-term use may hasten your death a bit and you might drop dead of a heart attack at 60, but if it wasn't the cigarettes, who is to say it wouldn't be something else? Or who is to say that someone that gets a heart attack at 60 wouldn't have gotten on anyway even s/he didn't smoke. Lung cancer is pretty unique to smoking and affects about 3%. If you want to attribute those deaths to smoking, I'll give it to you, but it isn't hundreds of thousands per year. If you want to blame the cigarettes on every death of someone that happens to be a smoker, well, that's why nobody believes it and it is still legal.
There are thousands of research papers that have been published on this subject. Volumes of epidemiological studies connect smoking to lung cancer, heart disease, etc. Your concerns, which raise (well, raised) very good questions, are legitimate problems when studies are not rigorous and develop correlation without causation. But tobacco use has been studied exceptionally rigorously. The kinds of examples you use above just don't slip through the cracks of studies this thorough.
Of course, it's vaping that hasn't been very thoroughly studied. A study that was just published connects vaping-related respiratory disease to illegal THC products. There's a long way to go - I don't know why we'd be looking at banning something that appears to be a good way to get folks off smoking.
I'm not questioning claims that it is bad for you. I am questioning claims that it kills hundreds of thousands every year. That is absurd. Hundreds of thousands of non-smokers get heart attacks as well. You can't say that the cigarette was the cause of all heart attacks of people that happen to be a smoker.
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - Brookes Owl - 09-09-2019 04:39 PM
(09-09-2019 03:43 PM)EverRespect Wrote:(09-09-2019 01:57 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:(09-09-2019 10:23 AM)EverRespect Wrote:(09-08-2019 09:51 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: 100's of thousands of deaths annually due to tobacco..and it is still legal. Think about that for a second.
How is that determined? Kind of like the drunk guy that was rear ended while sitting at a red light. Goes in the stats as "alcohol related", but the alcohol had nothing to do with the cause. Also why nobody believes anything the government of special interest organizations puts out. Tobacco is definitely bad for you, but smoking a cigarette isn't going to kill you. Chronic, long-term use may hasten your death a bit and you might drop dead of a heart attack at 60, but if it wasn't the cigarettes, who is to say it wouldn't be something else? Or who is to say that someone that gets a heart attack at 60 wouldn't have gotten on anyway even s/he didn't smoke. Lung cancer is pretty unique to smoking and affects about 3%. If you want to attribute those deaths to smoking, I'll give it to you, but it isn't hundreds of thousands per year. If you want to blame the cigarettes on every death of someone that happens to be a smoker, well, that's why nobody believes it and it is still legal.
There are thousands of research papers that have been published on this subject. Volumes of epidemiological studies connect smoking to lung cancer, heart disease, etc. Your concerns, which raise (well, raised) very good questions, are legitimate problems when studies are not rigorous and develop correlation without causation. But tobacco use has been studied exceptionally rigorously. The kinds of examples you use above just don't slip through the cracks of studies this thorough.
Of course, it's vaping that hasn't been very thoroughly studied. A study that was just published connects vaping-related respiratory disease to illegal THC products. There's a long way to go - I don't know why we'd be looking at banning something that appears to be a good way to get folks off smoking.
I'm not questioning claims that it is bad for you. I am questioning claims that it kills hundreds of thousands every year. That is absurd. Hundreds of thousands of non-smokers get heart attacks as well. You can't say that the cigarette was the cause of all heart attacks of people that happen to be a smoker.
No credible person would make that claim. From the Cleveland Clinic: "Smokers have a two- to fourfold increase in coronary artery disease and about a 70 percent higher death rate from coronary artery disease than do nonsmokers." That's an exceptionally high risk. But it obviously doesn't mean every smoker will die of heat disease. Also doesn't mean every smoker who dies of heart attack brought it on by smoking. I don't know where you're seeing that claim. But when you consider that 840K people die annually from cardio vascular disease, is it really that difficult for you to imagine that a few hundred thousand of those were from smoking?
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - Fort Bend Owl - 09-09-2019 05:18 PM
Juul is in deep trouble.
The FDA sent them a letter today giving them 15 days to respond to allegations that Juul told students that its vaping products are "totally safe" and "99% safer than cigarettes." According to the letter, Juul portrayed its products as "modified risk tobacco products." That is, Juul presented its vaping products as having "a lower risk of tobacco-related disease or are less harmful than one or more other commercially marketed tobacco products." Such claims can only be made with FDA approval, which Juul did not have.
The letter says Juul "should immediately correct the violations." The company now has 15 days to respond to the FDA and detail the steps it's taken to right its wrongs. If Juul's actions fail to appease the FDA, the company could face penalties and potentially have its products seized.
I sense a lot of lawsuits coming.
https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/09/fda-juul-letter-details-violations/
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - Fo Shizzle - 09-09-2019 08:05 PM
(09-09-2019 10:23 AM)EverRespect Wrote:(09-08-2019 09:51 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: 100's of thousands of deaths annually due to tobacco..and it is still legal. Think about that for a second.
How is that determined? Kind of like the drunk guy that was rear ended while sitting at a red light. Goes in the stats as "alcohol related", but the alcohol had nothing to do with the cause. Also why nobody believes anything the government of special interest organizations puts out. Tobacco is definitely bad for you, but smoking a cigarette isn't going to kill you. Chronic, long-term use may hasten your death a bit and you might drop dead of a heart attack at 60, but if it wasn't the cigarettes, who is to say it wouldn't be something else? Or who is to say that someone that gets a heart attack at 60 wouldn't have gotten on anyway even s/he didn't smoke. Lung cancer is pretty unique to smoking and affects about 3%. If you want to attribute those deaths to smoking, I'll give it to you, but it isn't hundreds of thousands per year. If you want to blame the cigarettes on every death of someone that happens to be a smoker, well, that's why nobody believes it and it is still legal.
Admittedly...Not sure of how these figures are derived at. I said 100s of thousands instead of the official number of 480,000 and 7 million world wide. Id bet that is somewhat high and some deaths are conflated with other illnesses in these figures..but..its pretty clear tobacco is a toxic and dangerous substance and it is still legal. I remember the first time I smoked and got nauseated from the affects. A light should have went off in my head that I was putting something in my body that was toxic. Thankfully...years later I realized how fcking nasty and useless the habit was and dropped it.
Id bet the figures include clear evidence of other things other than lung cancer. Id guess all types of lung disorders are involved and other cancers including that of the mouth due to chewing tobacco and snuff. Tobacco use in Emphysema and COPD deaths have long been known. One of my best golfing friends was a chain smoker and now has terminal COPD. He is basically bed ridden and has to use oxygen 24/7 now.
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - dfarr - 09-09-2019 08:28 PM
(09-06-2019 08:10 AM)bullet Wrote:(09-05-2019 04:42 PM)WKUYG Wrote:(09-05-2019 02:55 PM)ummechengr Wrote: I understand that a single pod is many times more potent than a whole pack of cigarettes when it comes to nicotine concentration.
But isnt a pod enough to be like smoking many packs of cigarettes? Mach was confusing the "pod" with one fill of the vape pipe.
So if someone was a pack a day smoker they are getting 3/5 to 4/5 less nicotine if the pod on avg last 3 to 5 days
About 8 months ago I talked my son into going back to the nasty pouches that he puts in his mouth and stop vaping. I hate it but the tobacco we know about.
Quote:3-5 days
Most refillable pods last 3-5 days, although that approximation depends on how often you vape. An important aspect is knowing the signs of needing to refill your pod. Two warning signs that you need to change your pod is a reduction in flavor and a reduction in vapor emitted from your pod.Dec 22, 2017
Quote: One JUUL pod contains 20 cigarettes worth of nicotine.
The amount of nicotine in one standard JUUL cartridge is roughly equal to the amount of nicotine in a pack of cigarettes, or about 200 puffs
So mouth cancer instead of lung cancer.
Oral tobacco isn’t the cause of mouth cancer
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - maximus - 09-09-2019 08:36 PM
(09-05-2019 02:55 PM)ummechengr Wrote: I understand that a single pod is many times more potent than a whole pack of cigarettes when it comes to nicotine concentration.Yup
Its taken hundreds of years but us humans have invented something more addictive than nicotine
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - Fort Bend Owl - 09-11-2019 03:03 PM
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-stop-sales-flavored-vaping-products/story?id=65539247
Trump Administration wants to ban flavored e-cigarettes. That's now like maybe 5 things they've done in almost 3 years I agree with. I can't wait to see a few users here criticize Trump for that decision.
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - gdunn - 09-11-2019 03:10 PM
(09-11-2019 03:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-stop-sales-flavored-vaping-products/story?id=65539247
Trump Administration wants to ban flavored e-cigarettes. That's now like maybe 5 things they've done in almost 3 years I agree with. I can't wait to see a few users here criticize Trump for that decision.
Honestly, if there are adverse health effects worse than using regular tobacco, I think it should be banned..
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - georgia_tech_swagger - 09-11-2019 03:25 PM
(09-11-2019 03:10 PM)gdunn Wrote:(09-11-2019 03:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-stop-sales-flavored-vaping-products/story?id=65539247
Trump Administration wants to ban flavored e-cigarettes. That's now like maybe 5 things they've done in almost 3 years I agree with. I can't wait to see a few users here criticize Trump for that decision.
Honestly, if there are adverse health effects worse than using regular tobacco, I think it should be banned..
There aren't.
And Trump can go clutch his populist pearls on this. He's wrong, but that's nothing new.
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - gdunn - 09-11-2019 03:29 PM
(09-11-2019 03:25 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I'm hearing more and more each day.. Granted cigarettes have been around my entire life and even before, maybe we're hearing more about vaping since it's the new fad.(09-11-2019 03:10 PM)gdunn Wrote:(09-11-2019 03:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-stop-sales-flavored-vaping-products/story?id=65539247
Trump Administration wants to ban flavored e-cigarettes. That's now like maybe 5 things they've done in almost 3 years I agree with. I can't wait to see a few users here criticize Trump for that decision.
Honestly, if there are adverse health effects worse than using regular tobacco, I think it should be banned..
There aren't.
And Trump can go clutch his populist pearls on this. He's wrong, but that's nothing new.
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - bobdizole - 09-11-2019 03:36 PM
The funny thing is it's the latest health scare that has probably finally pushed this over the edge. All of the recent deaths have come from THC vape pens.
But, lets ban nicotine based flavored vape juice?
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - stinkfist - 09-11-2019 03:55 PM
(09-11-2019 03:03 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-stop-sales-flavored-vaping-products/story?id=65539247
Trump Administration wants to ban flavored e-cigarettes. That's now like maybe 5 things they've done in almost 3 years I agree with. I can't wait to see a few users here criticize Trump for that decision.
I laugh at vapers...talk about a cucked pansy...
I would've squashed that bs moons ago...
it's akin to a bloody tampon vs. candy ciggy butts...
nicotine is the easily the most addictive 'drug' I've ever experienced....that includes narcotics of any variety...
disclaimer: lifetime smoker to this day (with a 7 yr. hiatus sandwiched in somewhere)....2 packs/day easy and I hated every fk'n one of 'em once I started again...but, I got fat and still wanted to get laid....
there's a reason super models do two things 'religiously'.....nicotine and cocaine...
#5starevent
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - stinkfist - 09-11-2019 04:03 PM
(09-11-2019 03:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: The funny thing is it's the latest health scare that has probably finally pushed this over the edge. All of the recent deaths have come from THC vape pens.
But, lets ban nicotine based flavored vape juice?
surely you realize how chemistry can confound the ignorant....
that pen ISN'T mightier than the sword....
I refuse to engage in the oil....I already know how they fk with the chemistry....
RE: Is it time to ban vaping? - bobdizole - 09-11-2019 04:23 PM
(09-11-2019 04:03 PM)stinkfist Wrote:(09-11-2019 03:36 PM)bobdizole Wrote: The funny thing is it's the latest health scare that has probably finally pushed this over the edge. All of the recent deaths have come from THC vape pens.
But, lets ban nicotine based flavored vape juice?
surely you realize how chemistry can confound the ignorant....
that pen ISN'T mightier than the sword....
I refuse to engage in the oil....I already know how they fk with the chemistry....
Of course, best consumed as it was intended straight from the ground or maybe cooked down with some butter.
They are digging deeper and a lot of the THC pens were not purchased from retailers but bootleg devices. Doesn't take a genius to figure out God knows what they are putting in those things and you are turning around and vaporizing it into your lungs.