(10-25-2013 02:52 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 02:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Heart of Dixie - I work in finance, management and IT consulting. We recruited nationally hiring with offices coast-to-coast. Our competitors had the exact same type of recruiting practices. So, it wasn't just a matter of, say, the Chicago office hiring Big Ten grads based on geography. NYC, LA and San Francisco looked at Big Ten grads the same way.

I wouldn't doubt the energy industry has natural connections to Texas and Southern schools due to geography. However, when you look at the industries that have nationwide job searches, like top tier finance and engineering/computer science positions, the Big Ten schools are definitely competitive everywhere.

Like I've said, it also depends on when you graduated. It has honestly gotten more competitive in the job market, so academic prestige is weighted a lot more just to get an interview today. A generation or two ago, a college degree from anywhere plus work ethic to pay your dues was enough in the way that might be unrealistic now.

I guess I just don't see the value in comparisons between schools that dominate certain industries based in certain regions and others that produce graduates primarily for other industries based in others.

For the most part these schools are throwing out, teachers, nurses, lawyers, and such which are not nationally recruited types, for the most part. Going to Iowa to become a teacher in Iowa is probably a sound bet. Going to Iowa to be a teacher in Alabama is probably a poor choice.

My experience is probably really coloring this since its huge in the legal world. Only Harvard, Stanford, and Yale are true national legal schools. The rest will run into limitations geographically. For instance, going to Minnesota for a law degree, which is a well ranked program, is probably pretty idiotic over going to St. Mary's in San Antonio if one plans to practice in Texas.

And Duke (my sister is a Duke law grad). Got a job at a firm in Houston that recruited at Duke.

(10-25-2013 11:59 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 10:27 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Being a WVU grad certainly didn't hinder Don Knotts any...

Sure it did. Otherwise his show would not have been cancelled when it was the highest rated show in the country.

I kid, I kid.

So did Don Knotts - all his life. He was damn good at it too...

(10-25-2013 10:04 AM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 09:15 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  Kansas and Oklahoma would work, but the B1G should have been all over Mizzou a few years ago to make it ideal. If Oklahoma has been in the B1G's long term expansion plans (the last 5 years), Mizzou should have been a lock. I'm glad we have them in the SEC.

There's a lot of speculation on what happened there, but one downside to Mizzou from a "brand" perspective is exactly what is happening now:

Cardinals are in the Series and Mizzou has a good team. From what I understand of Missouri, many more eyes are on the Cards.

Missouri would have been an ideal B1G addition if there are any long-term western aspirations. I've always thought that the ultimate coup would have been for the B1G to grab KU, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas when they grabbed Nebraska. Of course, that's just message board fodder - there were too many entanglements for them to have pulled that off in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas. But of course, who was the one that could have moved freely to set that up as a longer-term possibility? Missouri.

The state of Missouri is definitely all over the Cards, but if Missouri football can continue to excel the fanbase will be energized. They were on the upswing when Pinkel had several good years recently, and this is the kind of year so far that can help solidify that, as long as the fatalistic element that was nutured by the 5th down, kicked ball, etc doesn't get fed by some bizarre event.

Edited to add: aside from his talent, apparently Don Knotts was once of the nicest guys you could meet. At least that's my wife's opinion, after having had the chance to chat with him once.

(10-25-2013 02:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 02:14 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 02:10 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Heart of Dixie your last post just illustrates his and my point. You just points four a sexier that had graduates from mostly a small sector of schools. I never said being bi Ten made your education better, just that the school you go to does have an affect on your career path. Even your retort seems to display this.

I was under the impression that the point was the school you went to offered you some sort of natural advantage, for being Big10. My reply was to show that regionalism and where you live is more important than where you went to school. There is no advantage to going to the 46th best school in the nation if it is in the wrong place.

I've lived in all 4 regions of the country. It is the same everywhere. It's who you know and who knows you first, credentials, references, and experience second, and for first time job searchers it's academic credentials (including school) third and then if you are lucky one of your personal references or academic references knows someone who is looking at your resume. There is hubris here all the way around from you guys. Life and how it operates is pretty much the same everywhere.

I've got to agree with both JR and Frank. The school can get you in the door if #1 and #2 don't help. And in beginning positions its important. There are a lot of Fortune 100 companies who only hire from a limited set of schools. And they tend, but don't insist, on those same schools on more experienced hires, but #1 and #2 are more important. When I've hired, someone from a highly regarded school with rough equivalence on other factors, gets more attention.

Many consulting firms, like Frank says, also will only hire from a limited set of schools. More importantly, others will only recruit at those schools, meaning its harder to even get an interview.

It also depends on the field. I had a friend transfer from UCLA to Kentucky because Kentucky was better in her field. If you are talking about agriculture related fields, Georgia is right up there with Cornell and Wisconsin and Cal-Davis. The people in those fields know what the very best schools are. Now if you don't live in the midwest, you may not that know Miami and Northern Illinois are top 20 accounting programs, but you are likely to know that Texas, Illinois and BYU are at the top.

(10-25-2013 09:11 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 12:54 AM)Badger Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 07:32 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  [quote='Badger' pid='9902167' dateline='1382654366']
[quote='bigblueblindness' pid='9902016' dateline='1382651212']
[quote='Badger' pid='9901811' dateline='1382648096']

Buffalo v. Oklahoma? There really are few comparisons. Both are large state flagship schools. The comparisons pretty much end there. As a fan, what expansion comes down to, imo, is what teams strengthen a conference and enhance fan participation? I would not mind seeing Oklahoma in the Big Ten. However, Buffalo has direct proximity to other Big Ten members, namely PSU, OSU. Oklahoma is two states away from the nearest Big Ten school, NU. Will fans travel long distances to see away games? It is true that UB/suNY doesn't have big time sports in anything. But Buffalo is a big sports city that loves its football and hockey. UB has both and is more compatible with the Big Ten. And I could easily see Buffalo becoming a Purdue/Rutgers type team in terms of competitiveness. Sadly, the fan gets lost in all this expansion mess. How many WVU fans are able to attend away games since joining the distant Big 12? "Contiguous border" makes sense. Conferences should have an identity that is positive, broad, and fan friendly. I prefer schools be added to the Big Ten that have like cultural interests. Buffalo does, Oklahoma not as much. Expansion is not solely about getting top flight athletic programs. An athletic mix of schools that are regionally identified promotes a conference's "presence" and helps to give meaning to competition, as opposed to a random geographic mess of schools associated merely out of expedience or, even, perceived athletic value. A good border battle is fun to watch, and often the lesser team will raise their game and win these. This doesn't happen when schools are far apart and rivalries are geographically disinclined to form.

Good post, Badger. From my point of view, you are on target.

He is on target that Buffalo makes as good of an expansion target for the Big Ten as Oklahoma does? What? Why, because it frees up Oklahoma???

(10-25-2013 09:15 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 07:46 AM)Badger Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 07:25 AM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 12:54 AM)Badger Wrote:  A good border battle is fun to watch, and often the lesser team will raise their game and win these. This doesn't happen when schools are far apart and rivalries are geographically disinclined to form.

Presumably, hypothetically (and just for discussion) Oklahoma would be brought on with Kansas. That gives you the boarder wars and brings in a new region. Of course, neither are geographically as central as Buffalo, but I just don't see the Buffalo thing happening unless perhaps if there's a coordinated effort to form 4 power conferences and Buffalo is the most "available" institution.

From a strategic standpoint that fortifies the western flank of the Big Ten and balances out conference strength...not to mention improves overall football and basketball standing of the conference...Oklahoma and Kansas coming on together is more than acceptable. Frankly, as a Big Ten fan...I would love to see this.

Kansas and Oklahoma would work, but the B1G should have been all over Mizzou a few years ago to make it ideal. If Oklahoma has been in the B1G's long term expansion plans (the last 5 years), Mizzou should have been a lock. I'm glad we have them in the SEC.

I don't think all the Presidents were on board with an exact plan of expansion back when Nebraska was added. I would make my bet that some of them were still of the old traditional mindset that expansion is bad because it continues to take the conference away from it's old traditional line up.

Also, at the time, the ACC didn't have a GoR and was widely viewed to be vulnerable. Hell, we know now that the folks at North Carolina certainly were thinking hard about it. Missouri was not a slam dunk addition at the time. Nebraska was the single addition that was possible at the time that added the most value to what the Big Ten was doing at the time, which was adding a program in order to negotiate alongside the PAC in terms of selling their new Championship Games.

Buffalo is an interesting choice if the B1G wants to organically grow a brand everyone wishes already existed: New York State University.

Buffalo is already an AAU so a rebranded NYSU would be appealing to the B1G and allow them to create a competing brand to Syracuse and the ACC in upstate

(10-25-2013 02:58 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 02:56 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  This seems like it may be degree specific. Big 10 schools programs probably don't focus on energy production whether it be engineering for energy or one of the sciences, where as in Texas and other Southern schools there would be science and engineering programs that specificlly focus on the energy industry. I doubt an investment firm in Houston, Atlanta or Pheonix would look down on a finance degree from a Big 10 School.

Maybe not looked down on but would it be an advantage over a University of Arizona, Texas A&M, or University of Georgia degree?

Granted, its probably an advantage over a kid from Northern Arizona U, Sam Houston State, or Georgia Southern University.

There are so many B1G grads in the Phoenix area that a B1G degree holds a lot of weight.

As for NAU, the business program is first-rate. NAU has a number of top 10 national programs.

Frank - you are missing out limiting yourself to certain schools. As someone who took undergrad classes at both Illinois and NAU, the NAU classes were far superior in every aspect, plus they were all taught by full professors that speak English as a first language, not some TA from China that barely speaks English.

(10-25-2013 08:05 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Buffalo is an interesting choice if the B1G wants to organically grow a brand everyone wishes already existed: New York State University.

Buffalo is already an AAU so a rebranded NYSU would be appealing to the B1G and allow them to create a competing brand to Syracuse and the ACC in upstate

Buffalo AKA THE UNIVERISTY OF NEW YORK(when rebranded) could be the pet project of Delaney. Is his ego big enough that he would be willing to take a school like Buffalo and turn them into a big time program? Cinderella, your prince is on line 2 !

No one will be laughing at the B10 based upon the schools they may end up selecting, even if they decide to go in a direction almost everyone would never predict and move for new york state ala Buffalo

(10-25-2013 08:57 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  No one will be laughing at the B10 based upon the schools they may end up selecting, even if they decide to go in a direction almost everyone would never predict and move for new york state ala Buffalo

Can someone explain the SUNY system to me and why they haven't done much with athletics? How does SUNY compare/contrast with systems I somewhat understand: California and Wisconsin.

(10-25-2013 09:11 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:57 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  No one will be laughing at the B10 based upon the schools they may end up selecting, even if they decide to go in a direction almost everyone would never predict and move for new york state ala Buffalo

Can someone explain the SUNY system to me and why they haven't done much with athletics? How does SUNY compare/contrast with systems I somewhat understand: California and Wisconsin.

SUNY has 4 "Cal" schools-Stony Brook, Binghampton, Buffalo and Albany and a slew of "Cal State" schools. There is also a SUNY college as part of Cornell. I don't know their history of athletics. Albany and Stony Brook are relatively recent move-ups from Division II. Buffalo dropped football at one point (70s?). Restarted non-scholly around 1990 and quickly, before they were ready, moved up to MAC.

(10-25-2013 08:57 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:05 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Buffalo is an interesting choice if the B1G wants to organically grow a brand everyone wishes already existed: New York State University.

Buffalo is already an AAU so a rebranded NYSU would be appealing to the B1G and allow them to create a competing brand to Syracuse and the ACC in upstate

Buffalo AKA THE UNIVERISTY OF NEW YORK(when rebranded) could be the pet project of Delaney. Is his ego big enough that he would be willing to take a school like Buffalo and turn them into a big time program? Cinderella, your prince is on line 2 !

No one will be laughing at the B10 based upon the schools they may end up selecting, even if they decide to go in a direction almost everyone would never predict and move for new york state ala Buffalo

It's my understanding that Rutgers is the pet project you speak of. And I'm completely ok with that.

(10-25-2013 09:11 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:57 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  No one will be laughing at the B10 based upon the schools they may end up selecting, even if they decide to go in a direction almost everyone would never predict and move for new york state ala Buffalo

Can someone explain the SUNY system to me and why they haven't done much with athletics? How does SUNY compare/contrast with systems I somewhat understand: California and Wisconsin.

New York has a large number of "state" schools. 4 are university centers (albany, buffalo, stony brook and binghamton) they are closest to what most recognize as the state university of other states. I believe for whatever reason, new york state wanted to spread the wealth , so to speak, and not have one campus become the dominant one. political reasons also played a part in having these 4 spread out over different regions of the state.
the other SUNY schools were meant to focus on one or two academic concentrations (with the hope of specializing in them) for example suny cortland focus was/is education. they tend to be more "college" like than university like (size, concentrations offered etc) they are also spread out over the state, with the hope it would make it more convenient for the students to attend and to support the smaller cities,towns,villages and counties where these schools are located. There are also community colleges in a majority of counties that were rebranded as SUNY"COUNTY NAME" This occured around the same time as Buffalo Albany etc dropped the term SUNY and now prefer to be called "buffalo" or "binghamton"

They never really stressed big time college athletics,(which imo was short sided) although i believe buffalo was the most open to it

if the state of new york ever decides to put its weight behind big time college athletics who knows what can be accomplished

(10-25-2013 09:39 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:57 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:05 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Buffalo is an interesting choice if the B1G wants to organically grow a brand everyone wishes already existed: New York State University.

Buffalo is already an AAU so a rebranded NYSU would be appealing to the B1G and allow them to create a competing brand to Syracuse and the ACC in upstate

Buffalo AKA THE UNIVERISTY OF NEW YORK(when rebranded) could be the pet project of Delaney. Is his ego big enough that he would be willing to take a school like Buffalo and turn them into a big time program? Cinderella, your prince is on line 2 !

No one will be laughing at the B10 based upon the schools they may end up selecting, even if they decide to go in a direction almost everyone would never predict and move for new york state ala Buffalo

It's my understanding that Rutgers is the pet project you speak of. And I'm completely ok with that.

not anymore! Open your wings and fly Rutgers! You are ready. There is a new Jan Brady coming to the B1G and shes from upstate new york and she likes to eat beef on a weck and calls soda "pop"

(10-25-2013 09:39 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:57 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:05 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Buffalo is an interesting choice if the B1G wants to organically grow a brand everyone wishes already existed: New York State University.

Buffalo is already an AAU so a rebranded NYSU would be appealing to the B1G and allow them to create a competing brand to Syracuse and the ACC in upstate

Buffalo AKA THE UNIVERISTY OF NEW YORK(when rebranded) could be the pet project of Delaney. Is his ego big enough that he would be willing to take a school like Buffalo and turn them into a big time program? Cinderella, your prince is on line 2 !

No one will be laughing at the B10 based upon the schools they may end up selecting, even if they decide to go in a direction almost everyone would never predict and move for new york state ala Buffalo

It's my understanding that Rutgers is the pet project you speak of. And I'm completely ok with that.

Exactly. I know folks are really stretching their mental boundaries in attempting to see where this all is going but if they think the Big Ten is in the business of having that many building projects all at once....then as usual, these people don't understand the Big Ten at all.

It's the Big Ten. They simply don't have to. The Big Ten is also patient.

(10-25-2013 09:48 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 09:39 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:57 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:05 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Buffalo is an interesting choice if the B1G wants to organically grow a brand everyone wishes already existed: New York State University.

Buffalo is already an AAU so a rebranded NYSU would be appealing to the B1G and allow them to create a competing brand to Syracuse and the ACC in upstate

Buffalo AKA THE UNIVERISTY OF NEW YORK(when rebranded) could be the pet project of Delaney. Is his ego big enough that he would be willing to take a school like Buffalo and turn them into a big time program? Cinderella, your prince is on line 2 !

No one will be laughing at the B10 based upon the schools they may end up selecting, even if they decide to go in a direction almost everyone would never predict and move for new york state ala Buffalo

It's my understanding that Rutgers is the pet project you speak of. And I'm completely ok with that.

Exactly. I know folks are really stretching their mental boundaries in attempting to see where this all is going but if they think the Big Ten is in the business of having that many building projects all at once....then as usual, these people don't understand the Big Ten at all.

It's the Big Ten. They simply don't have to. The Big Ten is also patient.

exactly, patient enough to help buffalo develop !

(10-25-2013 09:52 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 09:48 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 09:39 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:57 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:05 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Buffalo is an interesting choice if the B1G wants to organically grow a brand everyone wishes already existed: New York State University.

Buffalo is already an AAU so a rebranded NYSU would be appealing to the B1G and allow them to create a competing brand to Syracuse and the ACC in upstate

Buffalo AKA THE UNIVERISTY OF NEW YORK(when rebranded) could be the pet project of Delaney. Is his ego big enough that he would be willing to take a school like Buffalo and turn them into a big time program? Cinderella, your prince is on line 2 !

No one will be laughing at the B10 based upon the schools they may end up selecting, even if they decide to go in a direction almost everyone would never predict and move for new york state ala Buffalo

It's my understanding that Rutgers is the pet project you speak of. And I'm completely ok with that.

Exactly. I know folks are really stretching their mental boundaries in attempting to see where this all is going but if they think the Big Ten is in the business of having that many building projects all at once....then as usual, these people don't understand the Big Ten at all.

It's the Big Ten. They simply don't have to. The Big Ten is also patient.

exactly, patient enough to help buffalo develop !

Not what I meant, but none the less.....touché.

(10-25-2013 09:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 09:11 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 08:57 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  No one will be laughing at the B10 based upon the schools they may end up selecting, even if they decide to go in a direction almost everyone would never predict and move for new york state ala Buffalo

Can someone explain the SUNY system to me and why they haven't done much with athletics? How does SUNY compare/contrast with systems I somewhat understand: California and Wisconsin.

SUNY has 4 "Cal" schools-Stony Brook, Binghampton, Buffalo and Albany and a slew of "Cal State" schools. There is also a SUNY college as part of Cornell. I don't know their history of athletics. Albany and Stony Brook are relatively recent move-ups from Division II. Buffalo dropped football at one point (70s?). Restarted non-scholly around 1990 and quickly, before they were ready, moved up to MAC.

Basically...

When suny started they did not allow for scholarship athletics. At the time UB joined (1962) they were granfatherd in but the political stress of the 60's caused the students to defund football.

So when the Bulls started up again in 1977 they could not have scholarships. After fighting for almost ten years UB got SUNY to change their stance and the four centers started moving up.

UB led the pack because of history and the fact we did all the heavy lifting.

Same thing just happened with UB2020

http://www.buffalo.edu/ub2020.html

UB fought for greater sovereignty within the system to raise tuition and to for some partnerships. SUNY revolted at the idea so UB used it's template to form SUNY2020 now all the centers enjoy the work we put in.

(10-25-2013 08:05 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Buffalo is an interesting choice if the B1G wants to organically grow a brand everyone wishes already existed: New York State University.

Buffalo is already an AAU so a rebranded NYSU would be appealing to the B1G and allow them to create a competing brand to Syracuse and the ACC in upstate

Tell Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown this. I think UB/SUNY/NYSU
has finally figured this out. But city of Buffalo officials are not smelling the expansion roses yet at their doorstep while they claim an unending thirst for new business and economic revitalization to occur in hard times Buffalo. I don't get it??