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Big 12 Mega-thread. (Doomsday theories and Luck/UCF rumors)
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #421
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 10:03 AM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  "Imperial" or "Empirical" evidence? I'm not trying to be the grammar police, but when the discussion veers toward a discussion of the appropriate scope of government, that's an amusing choice of words 04-cheers

i.Phone autocorrect + Happy Hour = you are lucky I can even understand what I was trying to say. 04-cheers
10-18-2013 10:20 AM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #422
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 10:16 AM)lew240z Wrote:  TCU was immediately available. Louisville was not. The Big 12 needed two schools to keep the tv contracts. They couldn't wait 27 months for Louisville.

Maybe you need to take another look:

(10-17-2013 12:51 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  The Big 12 doesn't have a conference network and needs big name schools that have fans. Simple as that.

So explain why this school...

[Image: BWZgSocCcAACR3-.jpg]


...was selected over this one:

[Image: 4433715.jpeg]

An illustration of epic expansion ineptitude by the @10 but B12…. Furthermore, didn't the B12 help WV with its exit fees? It could have done the same for Louisville who had a lot more to offer the B12 than TCU. How about an even better idea: Take all the Big East Football schools at the same time since the B12 needed replacements so bad. However, the last thing the B12 needed to do was duplicate its small conference footprint by adding TCU….
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2013 10:37 AM by Underdog.)
10-18-2013 10:30 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #423
RE: WVU Rumor Mill: Oliver Luck wants UCF to Big12
ad, B12 fans don't seem to have any complaints...

http://newsok.com/big-12-football-west-v...le/3872627

The only complaints about WVU fans are coming from big city Yankees, and a few Card fans, like yourself, have jumped on their bandwagon. Every WVU-Louisville game I've attended was cordial, and without problems. So you and I have not attended the same games...

I will admit there have been a few well publicized incidents. But except for the quarter thrown out of the stands by a drunken moron during a basketball game, the vast majority of it was blown all out of proportion by northeastern media members looking for any excuse to perpetuate a stereotype...

Take your complaints to the ACC and keep 'em there. We're doing just fine in the B12...
10-18-2013 10:32 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #424
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
Tell me why this school is so desirable. If you're going to complain about TCU's fans, doesn't Miami deserve the same treatment?

[Image: miami-crowd-home-opener.jpg]

And how about Duke's football fanbase?

[Image: DukeFootball.jpg]

I could go on and show BC's home crowds as well. But you should get the point by now...
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2013 10:40 AM by bitcruncher.)
10-18-2013 10:40 AM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #425
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 10:40 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Tell me why this school is so desirable. If you're going to complain about TCU's fans, doesn't Miami deserve the same treatment?

[Image: miami-crowd-home-opener.jpg]

And how about Duke's football fanbase?

[Image: DukeFootball.jpg]

I could go on and show BC's home crowds as well. But you should get the point by now...

Duke brings big time bball to the table—enough said.... Miami was once a marquee school that still delivers its market; especially when paired with FSU. However, the B12 has Baylor, TX, and TT. Therefore, adding a mediocre Texas school like TCU was redundant at best....


Btw... The ACC wanted the markets as well while the B12 just wanted another Texas school to replace aTm with instead of using the opportunity to enlarge its "small and deformed footprint" with additional eastern expansion….

[Image: 800px-Big_12_Conference_Map.svg.png]
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2013 10:59 AM by Underdog.)
10-18-2013 10:45 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #426
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 10:40 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Tell me why this school is so desirable. If you're going to complain about TCU's fans, doesn't Miami deserve the same treatment?

[Image: miami-crowd-home-opener.jpg]

And how about Duke's football fanbase?

[Image: DukeFootball.jpg]

I could go on and show BC's home crowds as well. But you should get the point by now...

You miss the point Bit. You know Miami and Duke were not being added to the B12. Louisville has so much more to offer over TCU. 07-coffee3
10-18-2013 10:56 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #427
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 10:56 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  You miss the point Bit. You know Miami and Duke were not being added to the B12. Louisville has so much more to offer over TCU. 07-coffee3

Louisville had a number of advantages but one significant flaw, it wasn't located in Texas. For the remaining B12 schools, this was an important requirement.

@ SeaBlue,

$15 million to UT for ten years of stability clearly beats whatever the distributions would have been for the remaining P4 if the B12 would have dissolved. To say nothing about the legal/political entanglements.
10-18-2013 11:08 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #428
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 10:40 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Tell me why this school is so desirable. If you're going to complain about TCU's fans, doesn't Miami deserve the same treatment?

Why is Miami a desirable member of their conference? Let me take a guess...

[Image: miami-hurricanes-2-time-champions.jpg]
10-18-2013 11:11 AM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #429
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 11:08 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(10-18-2013 10:56 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  You miss the point Bit. You know Miami and Duke were not being added to the B12. Louisville has so much more to offer over TCU. 07-coffee3

Louisville had a number of advantages but one significant flaw, it wasn't located in Texas. For the remaining B12 schools, this was an important requirement.

@ SeaBlue,

$15 million to UT for ten years of stability clearly beats whatever the distributions would have been for the remaining P4 if the B12 would have dissolved. To say nothing about the legal/political entanglements.

...which explains the B12's ineptness at expansion. Consequently, the B12 should have helped Louisville get out of the Big East because long term it’s worth it. Unfortunately, because of Dodds short-sightedness which was blinded by greed, he couldn’t realize how valuable Louisville would be to the B12…….
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2013 11:20 AM by Underdog.)
10-18-2013 11:18 AM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #430
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 11:08 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Louisville had a number of advantages but one significant flaw, it wasn't located in Texas. For the remaining B12 schools, this was an important requirement.

TCU was absolutely the right team at the right time. Those arguing against it, simply do not comprehend that TCU was VITAL to saving the very TV contract that held the Big 12 together while they regrouped. Beyond the other teams wanting a fourth Texas team, and despite TCU bringing the same sex appeal to the Big 12 they were going to bring to the Big East, and despite the fact that leaving TCU out allowed yet ANOTHER (then) BCS conference into the heart of Dallas, while the SEC was invading Houston, none of that even matters because had TCU not been added, that contract may have been downgraded and the conference would be DOA.

At that point, TCU was not chosen over Louisville. West Virginia was. TCU was a necessary add and went immediately to the front while the debate languished on the other two.
10-18-2013 11:20 AM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #431
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 11:20 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(10-18-2013 11:08 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Louisville had a number of advantages but one significant flaw, it wasn't located in Texas. For the remaining B12 schools, this was an important requirement.

TCU was absolutely the right team at the right time. Those arguing against it, simply do not comprehend that TCU was VITAL to saving the very TV contract that held the Big 12 together while they regrouped. Beyond the other teams wanting a fourth Texas team, and despite TCU bringing the same sex appeal to the Big 12 they were going to bring to the Big East, and despite the fact that leaving TCU out allowed yet ANOTHER (then) BCS conference into the heart of Dallas, while the SEC was invading Houston, none of that even matters because had TCU not been added, that contract may have been downgraded and the conference would be DOA.

At that point, TCU was not chosen over Louisville. West Virginia was. TCU was a necessary add and went immediately to the front while the debate languished on the other two.

I’m not disputing your post. However, I can’t find any info that substantiates TCU was necessary for the B12’s contract. If you have a link to this info, please provide it and I’ll be done with this discussion.
10-18-2013 11:25 AM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #432
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
I do believe the big 12 need to jump to 10 for the contract but they didn't need to take tcu/wvu. They could have gone with say USF and UCF to get to 10 or 2-4 from new mexico, colorado state, byu and boise if they wanted to go with west. Realistically, they probably should have jumped to 11 with cincy, lville and wvu. That would have doomed the big east, than they could have waited out spot 12, i.e. target ND without football/byu football only for spot 12. However, like the big 10 who passed on ku/missouir, the big 12 probably got greedy with thoughts of Flordia state. YEt, i'm not even sure the FSU rumor was around at that point. On the other hand, tcu was coming off rose bowl win but still adding another school in texas really doesn't make sense.
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2013 11:39 AM by bluesox.)
10-18-2013 11:36 AM
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Post: #433
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 11:36 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I do believe the big 12 need to jump to 10 for the contract but they didn't need to take tcu/wvu. They could have gone with say USF and UCF to get to 10 or 2-4 from new mexico, colorado state, byu and boise if they wanted to go with west. Realistically, they probably should have jumped to 11 with cincy, lville and wvu. That would have doomed the big east, than they could have waited out spot 12, i.e. target ND without football/byu football only for spot 12. However, like the big 10 who passed on ku/missouir, the big 12 probably got greedy with thoughts of Flordia state. YEt, i'm not even sure the FSU rumor was around at that point. On the other hand, tcu was coming off rose bowl win but still adding another school in texas really doesn't make sense.

The point that keeps getting overlooked is that each of the remaining football schools in the Big East had something that the B12 will eventually need--an eastern footprint. The B12 should have at least added Louisvile, Rutguers, and UC with WV:


[Image: 697px-American_Athletic_Conference_Member_Locations.png]
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2013 12:06 PM by Underdog.)
10-18-2013 12:06 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #434
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
We probably shouldn't forget that a Conference takes a big step back when it starts to add schools that are not the primary schools of their respective states.
10-18-2013 12:08 PM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #435
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 11:36 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I do believe the big 12 need to jump to 10 for the contract but they didn't need to take tcu/wvu. They could have gone with say USF and UCF to get to 10 or 2-4 from new mexico, colorado state, byu and boise if they wanted to go with west. Realistically, they probably should have jumped to 11 with cincy, lville and wvu. That would have doomed the big east, than they could have waited out spot 12, i.e. target ND without football/byu football only for spot 12. However, like the big 10 who passed on ku/missouir, the big 12 probably got greedy with thoughts of Flordia state. YEt, i'm not even sure the FSU rumor was around at that point. On the other hand, tcu was coming off rose bowl win but still adding another school in texas really doesn't make sense.

But that's not the way the timing worked back in 2011. The Big XII was never in the position of jumping to 10 or more with a simultaneous pair (or more) of moves. Each of the additions was done separately.

Texas A&M announced it was leaving in August. The Big XII moved quickly to fill the hole and added TCU 6 weeks later, bringing them back from 9 to 10. West Virginia was added in a separate move to replace Missouri weeks later at a time when events were unfolding very rapidly.

All of this happened at the same time that other members of the Big XII were reportedly reevaluating their commitment to the conference - including Oklahoma. The moves to add TCU and West Virginia were attempts to plug holes in the dike, not part of a larger, well thought out expansion plan.

TCU was the first move and was specifically done to replace TAM in Texas. The West Virginia add was done after the TCU decision had already been made and the decision was made vs whatever other candidates they considered then - perhaps Louisville.
10-18-2013 12:09 PM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #436
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 12:06 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(10-18-2013 11:36 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I do believe the big 12 need to jump to 10 for the contract but they didn't need to take tcu/wvu. They could have gone with say USF and UCF to get to 10 or 2-4 from new mexico, colorado state, byu and boise if they wanted to go with west. Realistically, they probably should have jumped to 11 with cincy, lville and wvu. That would have doomed the big east, than they could have waited out spot 12, i.e. target ND without football/byu football only for spot 12. However, like the big 10 who passed on ku/missouir, the big 12 probably got greedy with thoughts of Flordia state. YEt, i'm not even sure the FSU rumor was around at that point. On the other hand, tcu was coming off rose bowl win but still adding another school in texas really doesn't make sense.

The point that keeps getting overlooked is that each of the remaining football schools in the Big East had something that the B12 will eventually need--an eastern footprint. The B12 should have at least added Louisvile, Rutguers, and UC with WV:


[Image: 697px-American_Athletic_Conference_Member_Locations.png]

So, having missed the boat on Louisville and Rutgers, who is available now for them to build that eastern footprint?
10-18-2013 12:12 PM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #437
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 12:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We probably shouldn't forget that a Conference takes a big step back when it starts to add schools that are not the primary schools of their respective states.

The B12 went backwards when it added TCU. However, it went forward by adding a new eastern footprint in WV. Unconscionably, the B12 has decided to stay this way....
10-18-2013 12:14 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #438
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 12:14 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(10-18-2013 12:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We probably shouldn't forget that a Conference takes a big step back when it starts to add schools that are not the primary schools of their respective states.

The B12 went backwards when it added TCU. However, it went forward by adding a new eastern footprint in WV. Unconscionably, the B12 has decided to stay this way....

I agree with you.

I'm just saying that when you start taking the 3rd best school in certain states, or lower in others, the conference takes a huge leap back when compared to other who only have the very best schools in their respective states, which is usually two.
10-18-2013 12:16 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #439
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 12:09 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  TCU was the first move and was specifically done to replace TAM in Texas. The West Virginia add was done after the TCU decision had already been made and the decision was made vs whatever other candidates they considered then - perhaps Louisville.

One huge reason making it easy for the Big 12 to add TCU: TCU was already a "free agent". They had already given their one-year notice to the MWC. They didn't have to give notice to the Big East or wait any amount of time before bailing out on the BE. The only other possible candidate who had no entanglements was BYU.

Also, remember that when Mizzou left, the Big 12 thought (or hoped) that Mizzou would stay another year in the Big 12, but instead Mizzou and the SEC made the move effective asap, daring the Big 12 to do something about it. So the Big 12 needed a 10th school for the next year immediately. (Apparently their TV deal allows ESPN and Fox to cancel the contract if the conference falls below 10 members.) The Big 12 didn't try to stop Mizzou, but they found WVU willing to jailbreak out of the Big East right away and fight whatever lawsuit happened as a result.
10-18-2013 12:17 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #440
RE: The Big 12 will blow up soon. (My Prediction)
(10-18-2013 10:56 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  You miss the point Bit. You know Miami and Duke were not being added to the B12. Louisville has so much more to offer over TCU. 07-coffee3
I tend to agree with you about the Cards being a better expansion candidate. But at the time, TCU was available and Louisville wasn't. Also, Louisville was willing to break the door down to exit the Big East, like WVU was after finding out all our rivals were bailing on us...

So it's a moot point...
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2013 12:19 PM by bitcruncher.)
10-18-2013 12:18 PM
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