IMO the reason why this BigXII demise threads keep popping up is that despite the strength of the GoR, the current conference configuration with no CCG and WVU out in Eastern limbo just looks like a temporary fix, not a plan for longterm stability.

Following the departure of NU and CU, what plausible expansion move(s) would have made the BigXII look like a more viable conference going forward?

WVU doesn't feel the same way, jrj. Our athletic department made a $4.2 million profit during the 2012-13 season. That's with 50% of the Big XII per school payout - and no IMG money...

Just wait until next year. The payout increases, and IMG money starts rolling in. WVU is sitting pretty...

(10-11-2013 06:34 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  IMO the reason why this BigXII demise threads keep popping up is that despite the strength of the GoR, the current conference configuration with no CCG and WVU out in Eastern limbo just looks like a temporary fix, not a plan for longterm stability.

Following the departure of NU and CU, what plausible expansion move(s) would have made the BigXII look like a more viable conference going forward?

Louisville
Boise State
BYU
Cincinnati

(10-11-2013 07:03 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU doesn't feel the same way, jrj. Our athletic department made a $4.2 million profit during the 2012-13 season. That's with 50% of the Big XII per school payout - and no IMG money...

Just wait until next year. The payout increases, and IMG money starts rolling in. WVU is sitting pretty...

WVU is and TCU will be happy too but getting the full payout for you two means everyone else will be taking a slight cut.

(10-11-2013 03:18 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 02:52 PM)goofus Wrote:  What if you split up the SEC like this

SEC noththwest
Texas, Ok., Mo. A&M, Arky, Tenn, Vandy, KY.

SEC southeast
LSU, ole miss, MSU, Bama, Auburn, Georgia, S. CAR., FLA.

Is that better?

No offense intended, but Iowans should not try to figure out the rivalry complexities of the SEC. You really don't want to try to separate Alabama and Tennessee.

The best division for all concerned would be:
Arkansas, L.S.U., Ole Miss, Miss State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

That groups the traditional rivals in the East. L.S.U. was never really a rival of Auburn prior to 1992 and while they played Alabama much more regularly they would likely enjoy being separated from them in divisional play.

I think what you would see in reality would look like this:

Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas

L.S.U., Ole Miss, Miss State, Texas A&M

Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina

Hey, you never told me that. The Alabama/Tennessee rivalry is a farce. Fake rivalries that aren't competitive should be dismantled. They are not rivalries, they are pageants that are continued in order to drive ticket sales. The thing is, neither school has a problem selling tickets. Tennessee is kicked around by the SEC in regards to which rivalries it has to maintain.

(10-11-2013 06:22 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  As an Alabama fan I don't think we want to be separated from the Mississippi schools or LSU.

There is a legitimate issue when we say that we shouldn't have to sacrifice games and such with particular teams in order to accommodate others who are enjoying the success that The core members created.

Are you talking a two division set up or do you mean in a four division set up as well?

In a four division set up I think you will be able to maintain the Mississippi's but likely you get separated from LSU. It would be in the conference's best interests to keep both of those "King" programs in their own division in order to maintain hierarchies.

(10-11-2013 08:00 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 07:03 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU doesn't feel the same way, jrj. Our athletic department made a $4.2 million profit during the 2012-13 season. That's with 50% of the Big XII per school payout - and no IMG money...

Just wait until next year. The payout increases, and IMG money starts rolling in. WVU is sitting pretty...

WVU is and TCU will be happy too but getting the full payout for you two means everyone else will be taking a slight cut.

No. They won't. You forgot take into account the incremental increase of the Big XII TV contract. Everyone will keep earning the same amount as TCU and WVU's payout increases. Once everyone is making the full payout, everyone's payout will increment upward...

(10-11-2013 08:15 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:00 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 07:03 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU doesn't feel the same way, jrj. Our athletic department made a $4.2 million profit during the 2012-13 season. That's with 50% of the Big XII per school payout - and no IMG money...

Just wait until next year. The payout increases, and IMG money starts rolling in. WVU is sitting pretty...

WVU is and TCU will be happy too but getting the full payout for you two means everyone else will be taking a slight cut.

No. They won't. You forgot take into account the incremental increase of the Big XII TV contract. Everyone will keep earning the same amount as TCU and WVU's payout increases. Once everyone is making the full payout, everyone's payout will increment upward...

It will take a dip before the incrementally increase catches up. WVU and TCU are only getting half payments. I don't see how the Big 12's "increments" are 20+ million dollars.

In the meantime, everyone else is getting incremental bumps and then some.

(10-11-2013 08:15 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:00 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 07:03 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU doesn't feel the same way, jrj. Our athletic department made a $4.2 million profit during the 2012-13 season. That's with 50% of the Big XII per school payout - and no IMG money...

Just wait until next year. The payout increases, and IMG money starts rolling in. WVU is sitting pretty...

WVU is and TCU will be happy too but getting the full payout for you two means everyone else will be taking a slight cut.

No. They won't. You forgot take into account the incremental increase of the Big XII TV contract. Everyone will keep earning the same amount as TCU and WVU's payout increases. Once everyone is making the full payout, everyone's payout will increment upward...

None of that really addresses the question of long term stability. At the end of the GoR will WVU have better financial prospects in the ACC or SEC? Yes. Will WVU have developed rivalries and relationships within the current big 12 that would cause them to pause before taking a bigger check? I doubt it. The question is could 10 years of BigXII payouts have turned schools like Boise, BYU, or even Memphis, Tulane, New Mexico, UNLV, etc into comparable but more committed conference mates.

Good God. You people again It's like a cult. The "Big XII is about to break apart and OU and Texas moving west" covenant.

(10-11-2013 08:29 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:15 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:00 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 07:03 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU doesn't feel the same way, jrj. Our athletic department made a $4.2 million profit during the 2012-13 season. That's with 50% of the Big XII per school payout - and no IMG money...

Just wait until next year. The payout increases, and IMG money starts rolling in. WVU is sitting pretty...

WVU is and TCU will be happy too but getting the full payout for you two means everyone else will be taking a slight cut.

No. They won't. You forgot take into account the incremental increase of the Big XII TV contract. Everyone will keep earning the same amount as TCU and WVU's payout increases. Once everyone is making the full payout, everyone's payout will increment upward...

None of that really addresses the question of long term stability. At the end of the GoR will WVU have better financial prospects in the ACC or SEC? Yes. Will WVU have developed rivalries and relationships within the current big 12 that would cause them to pause before taking a bigger check? I doubt it.

yes, because even though WVU is getting beat up in the Big XII, they are clearly the most attractive target for other conferences to cherry pick. They are the jewel in the crown.

(10-11-2013 08:25 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:15 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:00 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 07:03 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU doesn't feel the same way, jrj. Our athletic department made a $4.2 million profit during the 2012-13 season. That's with 50% of the Big XII per school payout - and no IMG money...

Just wait until next year. The payout increases, and IMG money starts rolling in. WVU is sitting pretty...

WVU is and TCU will be happy too but getting the full payout for you two means everyone else will be taking a slight cut.

No. They won't. You forgot take into account the incremental increase of the Big XII TV contract. Everyone will keep earning the same amount as TCU and WVU's payout increases. Once everyone is making the full payout, everyone's payout will increment upward...

It will take a dip before the incrementally increase catches up. WVU and TCU are only getting half payments. I don't see how the Big 12's "increments" are 20+ million dollars.

In the meantime, everyone else is getting incremental bumps and then some.

It would only need to ramp up $10 million, HO. You are forgetting that it's only half of the remaining payout we need to make up. It's not like we played last year for free...

(10-11-2013 08:35 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:29 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:15 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:00 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 07:03 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU doesn't feel the same way, jrj. Our athletic department made a $4.2 million profit during the 2012-13 season. That's with 50% of the Big XII per school payout - and no IMG money...

Just wait until next year. The payout increases, and IMG money starts rolling in. WVU is sitting pretty...

WVU is and TCU will be happy too but getting the full payout for you two means everyone else will be taking a slight cut.

No. They won't. You forgot take into account the incremental increase of the Big XII TV contract. Everyone will keep earning the same amount as TCU and WVU's payout increases. Once everyone is making the full payout, everyone's payout will increment upward...

None of that really addresses the question of long term stability. At the end of the GoR will WVU have better financial prospects in the ACC or SEC? Yes. Will WVU have developed rivalries and relationships within the current big 12 that would cause them to pause before taking a bigger check? I doubt it.

yes, because even though WVU is getting beat up in the Big XII, they are clearly the most attractive target for other conferences to cherry pick. They are the jewel in the crown.

I doubt WVU will be getting abused for long, dude. We just needed to build up a good bit of depth, since Bill Stewart never used all his scholarships. He preferred to save some to hand out to walk-ons, most of whom rarely saw the field, if at all...

(10-11-2013 08:48 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:25 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:15 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:00 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 07:03 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU doesn't feel the same way, jrj. Our athletic department made a $4.2 million profit during the 2012-13 season. That's with 50% of the Big XII per school payout - and no IMG money...

Just wait until next year. The payout increases, and IMG money starts rolling in. WVU is sitting pretty...

WVU is and TCU will be happy too but getting the full payout for you two means everyone else will be taking a slight cut.

No. They won't. You forgot take into account the incremental increase of the Big XII TV contract. Everyone will keep earning the same amount as TCU and WVU's payout increases. Once everyone is making the full payout, everyone's payout will increment upward...

It will take a dip before the incrementally increase catches up. WVU and TCU are only getting half payments. I don't see how the Big 12's "increments" are 20+ million dollars.

In the meantime, everyone else is getting incremental bumps and then some.

It would only need to ramp up $10 million, HO. You are forgetting that it's only half of the remaining payout we need to make up. It's not like we played last year for free...

You both got half shares right? What was the payout that was bragged about? 26 million or some number like that?

At 26 million that means both of you got 13 million, at a half share. That means both will get that 13 million boost. That means 26 million would have to be the "increment" in order for everyone else to break even.

We must be operating on different numbers in order for you to come up with only 10 million.

You're right on your math. I was figuring WVU only, and forgot TCU...

We get 12% more this season, 13% more the next, and 15% the year after to make it 100%...

(10-11-2013 08:52 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  You're right on your math. I was figuring WVU only, and forgot TCU...

We get 12% more this season, 13% more the next, and 15% the year after to make it 100%...

It's cool. I figured that was probably the case because we weren't even close with our final figure.

(10-11-2013 09:11 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:52 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  You're right on your math. I was figuring WVU only, and forgot TCU...

We get 12% more this season, 13% more the next, and 15% the year after to make it 100%...

It's cool. I figured that was probably the case because we weren't even close with our final figure.

Ah well. You know me. I do suffer from mental pause...

(10-11-2013 06:34 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  IMO the reason why this BigXII demise threads keep popping up is that despite the strength of the GoR, the current conference configuration with no CCG and WVU out in Eastern limbo just looks like a temporary fix, not a plan for longterm stability.

Following the departure of NU and CU, what plausible expansion move(s) would have made the BigXII look like a more viable conference going forward?

After losing those 4 schools they could have gone back to being the Big 8. T Boone Pickens actually pushed for this; no joke. TCU was an OK pick I guess....I like TCU and respect what they did in the years following the SWC breakup, but the Big 12 doesn't need them. Dallas/Ft Worth is already owned by Texas, Oklahoma, OK St, Texas Tech and Baylor. Not to mention Arkansas, Texas A&M and the Cowboys. And most importantly: SMU. Just kidding. Picking West Virginia was a terrible move.....now it may have worked if they would've picked up Louisville when they had a chance. But to leave them out on an island like that is unprecedented with the P5. Now add to the problem Iowa St. They are now on island with their bordering rivals Nebraska and Mizzou gone. I predict this will also hurt them in recruiting to the point that they'll go back to being bottom feeders every year like they used to be in the 80's and 90's.....It's too bad the ACC or SEC won't pick up West Virginia. It would not only be good for WV, but for the big 12 as well....

(10-12-2013 01:53 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 06:34 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  IMO the reason why this BigXII demise threads keep popping up is that despite the strength of the GoR, the current conference configuration with no CCG and WVU out in Eastern limbo just looks like a temporary fix, not a plan for longterm stability.

Following the departure of NU and CU, what plausible expansion move(s) would have made the BigXII look like a more viable conference going forward?

After losing those 4 schools they could have gone back to being the Big 8. T Boone Pickens actually pushed for this; no joke. TCU was an OK pick I guess....I like TCU and respect what they did in the years following the SWC breakup, but the Big 12 doesn't need them. Dallas/Ft Worth is already owned by Texas, Oklahoma, OK St, Texas Tech and Baylor. Not to mention Arkansas, Texas A&M and the Cowboys. And most importantly: SMU. Just kidding. Picking West Virginia was a terrible move.....now it may have worked if they would've picked up Louisville when they had a chance. But to leave them out on an island like that is unprecedented with the P5. Now add to the problem Iowa St. They are now on island with their bordering rivals Nebraska and Mizzou gone. I predict this will also hurt them in recruiting to the point that they'll go back to being bottom feeders every year like they used to be in the 80's and 90's.....It's too bad the ACC or SEC won't pick up West Virginia. It would not only be good for WV, but for the big 12 as well....

You've got it reversed.... TCU was a terrible move while WV was an ok pick (an eastern footprint). The B12 has TX, TT, and Baylor; adding another TX school did nothing for increasing its footprint and exposure. However, as you’ve pointed out, Louisville should have been added as well. In fact, the B12 should have added the remaining Big East football schools and created a Big East division within the B12. It could have been:

Big East Division: Louisville, Rutgers, Temple, UC, UCF*, UCONN, USF, WV

Big Eight Division: Baylor, Iowa St, KU, K St, OU, OSU, TX, TT

This would have given the B12 the largest footprint of any P5 conference and the necessary eastern exposure to start a "real" network….

(10-12-2013 09:01 AM)Underdog Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 01:53 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 06:34 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  IMO the reason why this BigXII demise threads keep popping up is that despite the strength of the GoR, the current conference configuration with no CCG and WVU out in Eastern limbo just looks like a temporary fix, not a plan for longterm stability.

Following the departure of NU and CU, what plausible expansion move(s) would have made the BigXII look like a more viable conference going forward?

After losing those 4 schools they could have gone back to being the Big 8. T Boone Pickens actually pushed for this; no joke. TCU was an OK pick I guess....I like TCU and respect what they did in the years following the SWC breakup, but the Big 12 doesn't need them. Dallas/Ft Worth is already owned by Texas, Oklahoma, OK St, Texas Tech and Baylor. Not to mention Arkansas, Texas A&M and the Cowboys. And most importantly: SMU. Just kidding. Picking West Virginia was a terrible move.....now it may have worked if they would've picked up Louisville when they had a chance. But to leave them out on an island like that is unprecedented with the P5. Now add to the problem Iowa St. They are now on island with their bordering rivals Nebraska and Mizzou gone. I predict this will also hurt them in recruiting to the point that they'll go back to being bottom feeders every year like they used to be in the 80's and 90's.....It's too bad the ACC or SEC won't pick up West Virginia. It would not only be good for WV, but for the big 12 as well....

You've got it reversed.... TCU was a terrible move while WV was an ok pick (an eastern footprint). The B12 has TX, TT, and Baylor; adding another TX school did nothing for increasing its footprint and exposure. However, as you’ve pointed out, Louisville should have been added as well. In fact, the B12 should have added the remaining Big East football schools and created a Big East division within the B12. It could have been:

Big East Division: Louisville, Rutgers, Temple, UC, UCF*, UCONN, USF, WV

Big Eight Division: Baylor, Iowa St, KU, K St, OU, OSU, TX, TT

This would have given the B12 the largest footprint of any P5 conference and the necessary eastern exposure to start a "real" network….

Great point. It makes you wonder if Louisville would have left for the ACC if such a move had been made.

Rutgers certainly would have left for the Big Ten. They've been dreaming of being in an all sports conference with Penn State for 35 years and the Big XII can never match what the Big Ten has to offer as a total package. That probably would have been the point to add TCU.