Obama begs to differ....

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/02/go...-dictator/

Uh there was a vote on Obamacare. And the GOP lost it. 40 times.

We have the minority party, who has lost 9 of the last 10 national elections and only holds the House due to gerrymandering, now attempting to damage the nation in order to stop what it can't get stopped by any other means.

I think this stoppage is going to be long term. Obama isn't going to give up anything on Obamacare.

What's next? The GOP demanding that they get to rule the entire government so long as they have 41 Senators?

(10-02-2013 11:03 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Uh there was a vote on Obamacare. And the GOP lost it. 40 times.

We have the minority party, who has lost 9 of the last 10 national elections and only holds the House due to gerrymandering, now attempting to damage the nation in order to stop what it can't get stopped by any other means.

I think this stoppage is going to be long term. Obama isn't going to give up anything on Obamacare.

What's next? The GOP demanding that they get to rule the entire government so long as they have 41 Senators?

Have you seen anything that would indicate the majority of the people favor Obamacare?

You fight for what is right regardless of whether your army is larger or smaller.
You do the right thing always. Not what some socialist wants done.
The only way that Obamacare was upheld in the Supreme Court was by turning
it into a tax, which Obama's White House claimed time after time that it was not.
You do not change your convictions depending on what your political foe wants done.

(10-02-2013 11:03 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Uh there was a vote on Obamacare. And the GOP lost it. 40 times.

We have the minority party, who has lost 9 of the last 10 national elections and only holds the House due to gerrymandering, now attempting to damage the nation in order to stop what it can't get stopped by any other means.

I think this stoppage is going to be long term. Obama isn't going to give up anything on Obamacare.

What's next? The GOP demanding that they get to rule the entire government so long as they have 41 Senators?

Common core math?

(10-02-2013 11:03 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Uh there was a vote on Obamacare. And the GOP lost it. 40 times.

We have the minority party, who has lost 9 of the last 10 national elections and only holds the House due to gerrymandering, now attempting to damage the nation in order to stop what it can't get stopped by any other means.

I think this stoppage is going to be long term. Obama isn't going to give up anything on Obamacare.

What's next? The GOP demanding that they get to rule the entire government so long as they have 41 Senators?

I hope you are correct that this is long term. People will get to see that nothing of any particular importance will happen due to this shut down and life will go on just fine with less bureaucrats around.

Good catch.
Guess I get too irritated to actually look at what he was posting.

"....only holds the House due to gerrymandering..."

The gerrymandering you speak of was put in action in order to provide "safe" districts for black Congressmen. How many black Congressmen do you think there would be if their districts hadn't been gerrymandered?

Now you complain that Republicans are feasting on seats when it was the Democrats who set the table.

Here's a novel idea. Put it up for a national referendum, a vote of those it will affect - all of us peons. Since the Congresscritters won't listen to the people or pay attention to the many polls showing people not enthused enough, let us vote on it. I DARE them.

"It is too complex." That is/will be the mantra of those including the WH, as to why we couldn't let voters decide. They ALWAYS believe that it is an education/messaging problem with their big ideas flopping, not that the ideas were bad to begin with.

The response of those supporting the new law will use that one statement about the complexity to tell us that it is because most Americans don't understand the law and only more education on what Obamacare is and does will help. They would fight the idea of letting us vote on whether or not we want this new system tooth and nail. They HAD to impose it on us because they knew that if we truly understood the law and its implications, we would reject it. Remember that roughly (IIRC) 84% of us had health insurance before the ACA was passed and of that number, 87% were happy with our coverage.

A party who did not get a majority of votes either for House, Senate, or President but it's their way or the highway wants to dictate about democracy?

Have to when the other party knows nothing of it.

(10-02-2013 12:04 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Have to when the other party knows nothing of it.

Don't think you get it. Put everything up for a vote and see if it wins or loses. If people were so upset about Obamacare, they shouldn't have elected a Senate and a President who promised to keep it in place.

We're not a direct democracy. We don't rule by polls, and we don't put national laws up for a referendum. Don't like the law? Vote out the people who passed it. Did that already? Well, more of your fellow citizens like it so it stays. That's why it's a Democracy. The voters of Texas don't get to decide via Ted Cruz the laws of the rest of the country by themselves.

(10-02-2013 12:01 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  A party who did not get a majority of votes either for House, Senate, or President but it's their way or the highway wants to dictate about democracy?

Any time I hear the word 'democracy' thrown around, I suspect that I am among liberal democrats. They play word games and that word works for them among the LIV. But it doesn't mean what you think it means.

Mixedup - democracy wasn't served by the manner and methods by which this legislation was "passed" and the actions since of HHS. The GOP was shut out from input, not a single GOP vote for it, backroom deals, nobody seemed to know what was in the bill but it HAD to be passed quickly. Why? Guess. It's a steaming sh!t sandwich that they want us to eat without themselves tasting it. Once it was approved by dems, when problems started popping up, the government (HHS) began giving out exemptions - mostly to the supporters and donors to the current administration. Unions were the biggest recipients of waivers.

"We must pass this bill to find out what is in it." - Nancy Pelosi

(10-02-2013 12:01 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  A party who did not get a majority of votes either for House, Senate, or President but it's their way or the highway wants to dictate about democracy?

If Soetoro and Reid had built a coalition when drafting Obamacare in the first place instead of ramming it through full of Cornhusker Kickbacks, perhaps they could get of the GOPe on their side to drop this. But they didn't so they can't. Heck, the GOPe hates the Tea Party more than it hates the democrats. This whole ordeal just shows how unpopular Obamacare is and since it was run through along party lines, only the democrats have to defend it and they don't own the House anymore. Political Science 101.

Once the true effects of the law kick in and LIVs start to understand the ramifications, which seems to you more likely?

1 - more support for Obamacare and dems

2 - less support for Obamacare and dems

I don't accept the premise that this somehow had to have GOP votes in the first place to be legitimate. Did it get passed with less than a majority of Representatives or Senators? No. A majority of democratically elected representatives voted yes, it passed, the President signed it. That's how it works in this republic.

Want to repeal it? Introduce a bill to do so, put it up to a vote, and let it ride on it's own merits. Since the Democrats hold a majority in the Senate and the White House, it probably won't pass. That doesn't mean you shouldn't also deal with every other thing that comes up. I don't withhold my mortgage payment because I'm arguing with DirecTV over the cost of my cable bill.

(10-02-2013 12:07 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 12:04 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Have to when the other party knows nothing of it.

Don't think you get it. Put everything up for a vote and see if it wins or loses. If people were so upset about Obamacare, they shouldn't have elected a Senate and a President who promised to keep it in place.

We're not a direct democracy. We don't rule by polls, and we don't put national laws up for a referendum. Don't like the law? Vote out the people who passed it. Did that already? Well, more of your fellow citizens like it so it stays. That's why it's a Democracy. The voters of Texas don't get to decide via Ted Cruz the laws of the rest of the country by themselves.

That's not how a Republic works.

Positive Rep me and I'll vote for Obama in 2016

(10-02-2013 12:26 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 12:07 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 12:04 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Have to when the other party knows nothing of it.

Don't think you get it. Put everything up for a vote and see if it wins or loses. If people were so upset about Obamacare, they shouldn't have elected a Senate and a President who promised to keep it in place.

We're not a direct democracy. We don't rule by polls, and we don't put national laws up for a referendum. Don't like the law? Vote out the people who passed it. Did that already? Well, more of your fellow citizens like it so it stays. That's why it's a Democracy. The voters of Texas don't get to decide via Ted Cruz the laws of the rest of the country by themselves.

That's not how a Republic works.

Positive Rep me and I'll vote for Obama in 2016

That's EXACTLY how a republic works. You vote for representatives, they vote for laws, a majority of the current representatives are not in favor of repealing the law, so we MOVE THE F ON.

So you feel it is OK for one party to "fundamentally change" the relationship between the people and their doctors by inserting a bureaucrat in between AND fundamentally alter 1/6th of the economy?

If the GOP were to gain control of the Senate, House and Presidency and decided to un-do all the "great works" of our dem overlords by, say, eliminating SS, Medicare and Medicaid and Obamacare, you'd be fine with it? Obamacare is a fundamental change that takes away a person's right to dictate their own healthcare choices and you are OK with that?

Extreme example, for sure and it would never happen but this is what you are saying here. You ARE truly mixedup.