Gawd, not this again.

It's football season. Don't you folks have something better to do than recycle this dead-end idea?

(09-06-2013 12:26 AM)RustonCAT Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 07:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 06:33 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  West
Boise State
San Diego State
UNLV
BYU (Fresno State or if they don't join)
Colorado State

South
Houston
SMU
UTEP (better than Tulsa in regards to attendance numbers)
New Mexico ( might end up elsewhere)
ULL

East
USF
UCF
Arkansas State
Tulane
Southern Miss

North
UConn
ECU
Temple
Cincinnati
Memphis


Now for this kind of a conference, I weighed much more heavily on product on the field for some choices. That is going to matter quite a bit for this conference. Also, attendance issues matter.

In the West, I think the choices are pretty obvious. Doubling up in California isn't a bad thing but getting UNLV is a good choice as well as I think their local following will rise as they rise in the conference ranks. With a new stadium, they shouldn't be a hindrance on the conference average attendance numbers.

In the South, most folks will probably think ULL is a surprise. I just lived there and saw first hand how excited people were about the football program. I look at past attendance there but I also lend credence to locals on these boards that say their attendance numbers will rise. That stadium looks like a really big high school stadium that you might find somewhere in Texas. If they make it look like a proper modern college stadium then I think the folks there will show everyone what a sleeper product the Cajuns are. Since they are farther west, I put them with the West and Tulane with the East. Louisiana is hot stuff when it comes to recruiting. This conference would not suffer at all for doubling up in that State.

In the East, the surprise there is Arky State. They got some real good things going on there and I think they are another product of the future to get a hold of now. They are a strong performer that can help out the ratings of the conference. You could put them in the South instead of ULL but I figured on splitting the Louisiana schools in order to split up the visibility of other schools in that State.

In the North, I put Memphis and ECU because quite frankly the northern geographical area is really sparse for schools at this tier that have good enough attendance or even the possibility of achieving quality attendance numbers such as Memphis. ECU will help beef up that division in football too. Having them be a major brand of this conference is pretty important.

That is the line up I would go with. I would use an 8 game schedule. Four games in division, one game in each other division and then perhaps one protected rivalry game. You could also go with a 9 game schedule and play four games in division and then have a three year rotation where each year you play every team in one other division. That one though is going to be more costly in terms of travel AND it does not tie together the entire conference in terms of strength of schedule ratings.

Basically, you traded Navy and Air Force for ULL and Arky St. I don't think that's likely. The schools you chose have potential, but I don't see them making it in over more established programs like Navy and AF.

Arkansas State Has huge potential! 1. They are in a 2 team state that's not that unified behind the 1 other team. #2 Memphis and little rock markets. 20-6 in last 2 years. Coaches: Hugh freeze( now ole miss), Gus Malzahn(now auburn) now have Bryan Harsin just ask Boise how good he was as a OC!

This is a team to keep an eye on. ULL is a good one too.

I agree that both have potential (I said just that). My point was that the academies are the schools the P5 are MOST likely to want to be in D-4. The schools that have potential, but are not quite there yet would be the ones on the bubble--not the academies.

(09-05-2013 08:00 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  If this conference wants to participate at the top division level, they will have to pay stipends. That means Navy and Air Force are a no go. My choice of those schools has nothing to do with their comparison to Navy and Air Force.

Cadets already get a stipend each month to cover expenses while at school (uniforms, haircuts, shoe shine, etc). With a small portion of it going into their pockets and the rest going into a held account that they receive after graduation. Whether they are willing to increase the stipend from the $900 or so they currently get to something more substantial is hard to say.

(09-06-2013 12:47 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 12:26 AM)RustonCAT Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 07:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 06:33 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  West
Boise State
San Diego State
UNLV
BYU (Fresno State or if they don't join)
Colorado State

South
Houston
SMU
UTEP (better than Tulsa in regards to attendance numbers)
New Mexico ( might end up elsewhere)
ULL

East
USF
UCF
Arkansas State
Tulane
Southern Miss

North
UConn
ECU
Temple
Cincinnati
Memphis


Now for this kind of a conference, I weighed much more heavily on product on the field for some choices. That is going to matter quite a bit for this conference. Also, attendance issues matter.

In the West, I think the choices are pretty obvious. Doubling up in California isn't a bad thing but getting UNLV is a good choice as well as I think their local following will rise as they rise in the conference ranks. With a new stadium, they shouldn't be a hindrance on the conference average attendance numbers.

In the South, most folks will probably think ULL is a surprise. I just lived there and saw first hand how excited people were about the football program. I look at past attendance there but I also lend credence to locals on these boards that say their attendance numbers will rise. That stadium looks like a really big high school stadium that you might find somewhere in Texas. If they make it look like a proper modern college stadium then I think the folks there will show everyone what a sleeper product the Cajuns are. Since they are farther west, I put them with the West and Tulane with the East. Louisiana is hot stuff when it comes to recruiting. This conference would not suffer at all for doubling up in that State.

In the East, the surprise there is Arky State. They got some real good things going on there and I think they are another product of the future to get a hold of now. They are a strong performer that can help out the ratings of the conference. You could put them in the South instead of ULL but I figured on splitting the Louisiana schools in order to split up the visibility of other schools in that State.

In the North, I put Memphis and ECU because quite frankly the northern geographical area is really sparse for schools at this tier that have good enough attendance or even the possibility of achieving quality attendance numbers such as Memphis. ECU will help beef up that division in football too. Having them be a major brand of this conference is pretty important.

That is the line up I would go with. I would use an 8 game schedule. Four games in division, one game in each other division and then perhaps one protected rivalry game. You could also go with a 9 game schedule and play four games in division and then have a three year rotation where each year you play every team in one other division. That one though is going to be more costly in terms of travel AND it does not tie together the entire conference in terms of strength of schedule ratings.

Basically, you traded Navy and Air Force for ULL and Arky St. I don't think that's likely. The schools you chose have potential, but I don't see them making it in over more established programs like Navy and AF.

Arkansas State Has huge potential! 1. They are in a 2 team state that's not that unified behind the 1 other team. #2 Memphis and little rock markets. 20-6 in last 2 years. Coaches: Hugh freeze( now ole miss), Gus Malzahn(now auburn) now have Bryan Harsin just ask Boise how good he was as a OC!

This is a team to keep an eye on. ULL is a good one too.

I agree that both have potential (I said just that). My point was that the academies are the schools the P5 are MOST likely to want to be in D-4. The schools that have potential, but are not quite there yet would be the ones on the bubble--not the academies.

D4 won't happen.
1. Espn doesn't support it, espn=money
2. Your ole miss',vandy,Kentucky,Kansas and colorados of the world become the punching bags instead of CUSA and Mac. Once these AD's really look at that fact they will waiver a bit
3. If it were to happen the 5 conferences would all go to 16. That's 80 schools
Sec,big XXII,B1G,Pac12, and ACC

(09-05-2013 04:45 PM)All Rams All The Time Wrote:  "So, All Rams, what are the schools?" Nine from each of the MWC and AAC, clustered in regional threes:

I Luv Cali Division
San Diego State
Fresno State
UNLV

Mountains R Us Division
New Mexico
Air Force
Colorado State

C-USA No More Division
Tulsa
Southern Methodist
Houston

The Gulf Is Great Division
Tulane
Central Florida
South Florida

I Don't Have a Name for This Division
Cincinnati
Memphis
East Carolina

Big City Division
Temple
Connecticut
Naval Academy

That's not 9 MWC and 9 AAC, that 6 MWC and 12 AAC.

Stop this insanity!

The only thing I'd want between the MWC-AAC is a bowl game between the best available team from each conference.

(09-06-2013 07:56 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 04:45 PM)All Rams All The Time Wrote:  "So, All Rams, what are the schools?" Nine from each of the MWC and AAC, clustered in regional threes:

I Luv Cali Division
San Diego State
Fresno State
UNLV

Mountains R Us Division
New Mexico
Air Force
Colorado State

C-USA No More Division
Tulsa
Southern Methodist
Houston

The Gulf Is Great Division
Tulane
Central Florida
South Florida

I Don't Have a Name for This Division
Cincinnati
Memphis
East Carolina

Big City Division
Temple
Connecticut
Naval Academy

That's not 9 MWC and 9 AAC, that 6 MWC and 12 AAC.

and its not the "best of the rest". Its the "best of 2 of the 5 G5".

(09-06-2013 10:29 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 07:56 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 04:45 PM)All Rams All The Time Wrote:  "So, All Rams, what are the schools?" Nine from each of the MWC and AAC, clustered in regional threes:

I Luv Cali Division
San Diego State
Fresno State
UNLV

Mountains R Us Division
New Mexico
Air Force
Colorado State

C-USA No More Division
Tulsa
Southern Methodist
Houston

The Gulf Is Great Division
Tulane
Central Florida
South Florida

I Don't Have a Name for This Division
Cincinnati
Memphis
East Carolina

Big City Division
Temple
Connecticut
Naval Academy

That's not 9 MWC and 9 AAC, that 6 MWC and 12 AAC.

and its not the "best of the rest". Its the "best of 2 of the 5 G5".

Agreed. The same effect could be had by taking in MAC schools.

AAC North:UMass, UConn, Buffalo, Temple, Navy, Cincinnati, Toledo, Northern Illinois

AAC South: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulane, East Carolina, UCF, USF

Then the MAC could reload with Illinois State, Delaware and JMU without skipping a beat.....

MAC West: Illinois St, Ball St, CMU, WMU, EMU, Bowling Green
MAC East: Miami, Ohio, Kent St, Akron, Delaware, James Madison

(09-06-2013 09:38 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Stop this insanity!

The only I'd want between the MWC-AAC is a bowl game between the best available team from each conference.

Yeah I could be in favor of that.

MWC Tex, do you have a link to the main MWC board?

(09-06-2013 09:38 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Stop this insanity!

The only I'd want between the MWC-AAC is a bowl game between the best available team from each conference.

It's not likely that both make it into any new division if one is created. That is unless the P5 really aren't looking at cutting anyone out of the process except for the FCS schools and schools that don't even field football programs that currently have voting rights in the NCAA in regards to rules for football.

Personally, I think that they will be of the mindset of taking care of two birds with one stone instead of leaving an issue to be dealt with later that can be dealt with now.

(09-06-2013 11:07 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 10:29 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 07:56 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 04:45 PM)All Rams All The Time Wrote:  "So, All Rams, what are the schools?" Nine from each of the MWC and AAC, clustered in regional threes:

I Luv Cali Division
San Diego State
Fresno State
UNLV

Mountains R Us Division
New Mexico
Air Force
Colorado State

C-USA No More Division
Tulsa
Southern Methodist
Houston

The Gulf Is Great Division
Tulane
Central Florida
South Florida

I Don't Have a Name for This Division
Cincinnati
Memphis
East Carolina

Big City Division
Temple
Connecticut
Naval Academy

That's not 9 MWC and 9 AAC, that 6 MWC and 12 AAC.

and its not the "best of the rest". Its the "best of 2 of the 5 G5".

Agreed. The same effect could be had by taking in MAC schools.

AAC North:UMass, UConn, Buffalo, Temple, Navy, Cincinnati, Toledo, Northern Illinois

AAC South: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulane, East Carolina, UCF, USF

Then the MAC could reload with Illinois State, Delaware and JMU without skipping a beat.....

MAC West: Illinois St, Ball St, CMU, WMU, EMU, Bowling Green
MAC East: Miami, Ohio, Kent St, Akron, Delaware, James Madison

The problem here is the MAC has the worst average attendance in all of FBS (2012-15,526). Several MAC schools don't even average 10K a game. The best of the group barely reach the 20K mark---the same as Tulsa (which has a better far more consistent football program). Its hard to make a case for any MAC school while leaving out schools like Tulsa or S Miss. The AAC schools and MW schools are essentially the next tier down from the P-5 in attendance. Some CUSA and Sunbelt schools could be in that conversation, but the attendance is a big weak point for the MAC.

(09-06-2013 11:12 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 09:38 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Stop this insanity!

The only I'd want between the MWC-AAC is a bowl game between the best available team from each conference.

Yeah I could be in favor of that.

MWC Tex, do you have a link to the main MWC board?

Here you go.

http://www.mwcboard.com/index.php?showforum=6

Thanks

(09-06-2013 12:37 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 11:07 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 10:29 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 07:56 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 04:45 PM)All Rams All The Time Wrote:  "So, All Rams, what are the schools?" Nine from each of the MWC and AAC, clustered in regional threes:

I Luv Cali Division
San Diego State
Fresno State
UNLV

Mountains R Us Division
New Mexico
Air Force
Colorado State

C-USA No More Division
Tulsa
Southern Methodist
Houston

The Gulf Is Great Division
Tulane
Central Florida
South Florida

I Don't Have a Name for This Division
Cincinnati
Memphis
East Carolina

Big City Division
Temple
Connecticut
Naval Academy

That's not 9 MWC and 9 AAC, that 6 MWC and 12 AAC.

and its not the "best of the rest". Its the "best of 2 of the 5 G5".

Agreed. The same effect could be had by taking in MAC schools.

AAC North:UMass, UConn, Buffalo, Temple, Navy, Cincinnati, Toledo, Northern Illinois

AAC South: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulane, East Carolina, UCF, USF

Then the MAC could reload with Illinois State, Delaware and JMU without skipping a beat.....

MAC West: Illinois St, Ball St, CMU, WMU, EMU, Bowling Green
MAC East: Miami, Ohio, Kent St, Akron, Delaware, James Madison

The problem here is the MAC has the worst average attendance in all of FBS (2012-15,526). Several MAC schools don't even average 10K a game. The best of the group barely reach the 20K mark---the same as Tulsa (which has a better far more consistent football program). Its hard to make a case for any MAC school while leaving out schools like Tulsa or S Miss. The AAC schools and MW schools are essentially the next tier down from the P-5 in attendance. Some CUSA and Sunbelt schools could be in that conversation, but the attendance is a big weak point for the MAC.

The MAC has bad weather in October-November and plays Tuesday night games hurting attendance.

Some of the schools like Ohio and Kent State are actually improving numbers from where they were 5-10 years ago with stadium upgrades.

The number of MAC schools that have hit a 22k-30k average before is surprisingly pretty good. If Tulsa, SMU and Tulane can cut it for the AAC I suppose NIU, Toledo and Kent State could as well.

(09-06-2013 02:10 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 12:37 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 11:07 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 10:29 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(09-06-2013 07:56 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  That's not 9 MWC and 9 AAC, that 6 MWC and 12 AAC.

and its not the "best of the rest". Its the "best of 2 of the 5 G5".

Agreed. The same effect could be had by taking in MAC schools.

AAC North:UMass, UConn, Buffalo, Temple, Navy, Cincinnati, Toledo, Northern Illinois

AAC South: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulane, East Carolina, UCF, USF

Then the MAC could reload with Illinois State, Delaware and JMU without skipping a beat.....

MAC West: Illinois St, Ball St, CMU, WMU, EMU, Bowling Green
MAC East: Miami, Ohio, Kent St, Akron, Delaware, James Madison

The problem here is the MAC has the worst average attendance in all of FBS (2012-15,526). Several MAC schools don't even average 10K a game. The best of the group barely reach the 20K mark---the same as Tulsa (which has a better far more consistent football program). Its hard to make a case for any MAC school while leaving out schools like Tulsa or S Miss. The AAC schools and MW schools are essentially the next tier down from the P-5 in attendance. Some CUSA and Sunbelt schools could be in that conversation, but the attendance is a big weak point for the MAC.

The MAC has bad weather in October-November and plays Tuesday night games hurting attendance.

Some of the schools like Ohio and Kent State are actually improving numbers from where they were 5-10 years ago with stadium upgrades.

The number of MAC schools that have hit a 22k-30k average before is surprisingly pretty good. If Tulsa, SMU and Tulane can cut it for the AAC I suppose NIU, Toledo and Kent State could as well.

Perhaps, I can see where weather could be an issue. But last year the 3 schools you mentioned were all below 22K.

NIU-20,877 (during a BCS season)
Toledo-20,552
Kent St-17,880

Boise State
Fresno State
San Diego State
Hawaii (football only)/Seattle (non-football)

UNLV
New Mexico
Denver (non-football)
BYU (football stays independent)

Houston
SMU
Wichita State (non-football)
Memphis

Cincinnati
South Florida
Central Florida
VCU (non-football)

The Cincinnati and Memphis quads would be the East Division in football, while the Boise State and UNLV quads would be the West Division in football.

Since this split happens five years from now, the new conference snags an automatic bid (6 teams together for five years)

The Mountain West:

Air Force
New Mexico State (from SBC)
Idaho (from SBC)
Wyoming
San Jose State
Utah State
Colorado State
Nevada
Montana (from Big Sky)
Montana State (from Big Sky)
Sacramento State (from Big Sky)
Portland State (from Big Sky)

The American:

Connecticut
UMass (from MAC/Atlantic 10)
Temple
Navy (football only)
Army (football only, from independent)
Tulsa
Tulane
East Carolina
Old Dominion (from C-USA)
Florida Atlantic (from C-USA)
Florida International (from C-USA)
North Texas (from C-USA)

C-USA adds James Madison and Delaware to get back to 12.

The Sun Belt gets UALR and Texas-Arlington to move to FBS, then gets East Tennessee State to do the same.

these cross continental, 400 billion team, pod conglomerate conference ideas are an exercise in futile idiocy to begin with, but ones that include calling up EVEN MORE teams from FCS to FBS are on a level lunacy all their own.

That how you make FBS better, add more teams?

(09-06-2013 09:37 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  these cross continental, 400 billion team, pod conglomerate conference ideas are an exercise in futile idiocy to begin with, but ones that include calling up EVEN MORE teams from FCS to FBS are on a level lunacy all their own.

That how you make FBS better, add more teams?

Yes.

Become a G-6, G-7.....a G-20

I think D4 split means P5 schools do not want every schools in every division has to involve, even DIII schools. FBS schools should be fine as is. Let us not get in to panic mode.
We shall see by the end of this school year.

(09-06-2013 09:37 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  these cross continental, 400 billion team, pod conglomerate conference ideas are an exercise in futile idiocy to begin with, but ones that include calling up EVEN MORE teams from FCS to FBS are on a level lunacy all their own.

That how you make FBS better, add more teams?

Unless if enough conferences move at the same time, all against the same conference, the G5 will just keep reloading from FCS.

The other alternative would be for the leftover G5 conferences to negotiate a higher cap on the first tier of playoff money with the goal of consolidating into four conferences.