(09-03-2013 07:26 AM)#41 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 06:55 AM)MickMack Wrote:  As I read these arguments, I feel like you could insert "Tebow" for "Munchie." The arguments on both sides seem so familiar...

Except people forget Tim Tebow was a career 66% passer at FLA (his accuracy issues are entirely a phenomenon of the enhanced difficulty of the NFL) and was incredibly stingy with turnovers (16 INTs as a 3-year starter).

Munchie struggled to complete 50% of his passes last year. Incompletions kill drives, kill momentum, and causes offenses to sputter. There's really no greater ding on a QB in this era than an inability to be accurate with the football.

Simply put, if you can't hit 60% of your passes, there's really no place for you on a successful BCS-level squad.

I was referring to Tebow in the NFL, not Tebow in college. His supporters usually point to his won/loss record, while his detractors point to poor mechanics, and a general argument that he "doesn't have the tools" to be a successful QB.

I watched the game again last night. Am I the only one that did not really see a "dominating" performance? Their QB looked lost and almost single-handedly gave us the game. Purdue was just REALLY BAD!

First, let me say that I am far from a football expert, but I did not see either the kind of breakaway or power running in this game that will allow us to "hide" flaws in our QB from good teams. Munchie, in spite of all the good things he is as a person and a teammate, is never going to be a really good QB. He is good enough, with our decent but not overwhelming running game and his running skills, to manage the game, but when we run up against a defense that can stop the run, I think we are in trouble with Munchie. I saw some good passes for sure, but there were marginal throws that were successful because of great catches by our receivers. There were other throws that if placed correctly, could have gone for good yardage, instead of forcing the receiver to dive or reach back to catch the errant ball.

IMHO, when we meet a team with good run defense we will need Brendon behind center. He is hands down the better passer, and when healthy he has shown to be a deceptively good runner.

With that said, great win by both Munchie and the Bearcats!

Here are the QB stats from the game:

Passing Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack Yds/L TD Int QBRat
Munchie Legaux 13 20 145 65.0 7.3 1 -2 1 2 122.4
Brendon Kay 4 5 59 80.0 11.8 0 0 0 0 179.1

It's just a very odd situation with these two QBs. I'm not sure that I've ever seen a competition for the starting nod where the fanbase universally recognizes Player A as far superior to Player B, yet two separate staffs believe otherwise.

This would make a lot more sense if Kay were listed as #1 on the depth chart, with the qualifier that he is questionable due to injury. As it is, we don't really know if TT believes that Munchie is better, or if he just doesn't have confidence that Kay's shoulder is ready for a full regimen of practice + game reps.

People can and will go on believing that Kay is the better player, but when it's gametime, we all have to support the players whom the coaches have tapped to take the field.

I think many coaches in 2013 are in love with having a QB who is off the charts athletically. Might think its easier to hide flaws as a passer than it is to teach 4.4 speed in a read-option. Its the new normal in the game.

As a passer who goes through progressions and who doesn't make a bunch of plays that hurt the offense during a game, there is no comparison. Kay wins that all day. As a player who is a dual threat, the same can be said for Munchie.

(09-03-2013 10:46 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I think many coaches in 2013 are in love with having a QB who is off the charts athletically. Might think its easier to hide flaws as a passer than it is to teach 4.4 speed in a read-option. Its the new normal in the game.

As a passer who goes through progressions and who doesn't make a bunch of plays that hurt the offense during a game, there is no comparison. Kay wins that all day. As a player who is a dual threat, the same can be said for Munchie.

I agree that the so-called "dual-threat" QB is the flavor du jour. However, "dual-threat" is most often a euphemism for "can't throw." They mostly get weeded-out at the next level. Plus, Kay is a fine scrambler; it's not clear that he gives up much to Munchie in the department.

(09-03-2013 10:46 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I think many coaches in 2013 are in love with having a QB who is off the charts athletically. Might think its easier to hide flaws as a passer than it is to teach 4.4 speed in a read-option. Its the new normal in the game.

As a passer who goes through progressions and who doesn't make a bunch of plays that hurt the offense during a game, there is no comparison. Kay wins that all day. As a player who is a dual threat, the same can be said for Munchie.

Agree with you 100%, although I think Kay is underrated as runner. He made some pretty good gains on some runs last year.

(09-03-2013 10:46 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I think many coaches in 2013 are in love with having a QB who is off the charts athletically. Might think its easier to hide flaws as a passer than it is to teach 4.4 speed in a read-option. Its the new normal in the game.

As a passer who goes through progressions and who doesn't make a bunch of plays that hurt the offense during a game, there is no comparison. Kay wins that all day. As a player who is a dual threat, the same can be said for Munchie.

Maybe, but I think it's worth noting that Munchie's interceptions are almost always physical mistakes. With a lot of QB's, you take a look back at INTs and think the ball should have never been thrown there. With Munchie's picks, you almost always come away thinking the ball sailed on him or was too much of a line drive so it got tipped, etc. I think he's actually a good decision maker, but his inaccuracy is leading to INTs which naturally makes people question his reads/decisions.

Then again, INTs are INTs regardless of the reason so I guess it doesn't matter if he's TRYING to throw to the right spot or not.

(09-03-2013 01:31 PM)uccheese Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:46 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I think many coaches in 2013 are in love with having a QB who is off the charts athletically. Might think its easier to hide flaws as a passer than it is to teach 4.4 speed in a read-option. Its the new normal in the game.

As a passer who goes through progressions and who doesn't make a bunch of plays that hurt the offense during a game, there is no comparison. Kay wins that all day. As a player who is a dual threat, the same can be said for Munchie.

Maybe, but I think it's worth noting that Munchie's interceptions are almost always physical mistakes. With a lot of QB's, you take a look back at INTs and think the ball should have never been thrown there. With Munchie's picks, you almost always come away thinking the ball sailed on him or was too much of a line drive so it got tipped, etc. I think he's actually a good decision maker, but his inaccuracy is leading to INTs which naturally makes people question his reads/decisions.

Then again, INTs are INTs regardless of the reason so I guess it doesn't matter if he's TRYING to throw to the right spot or not.

His second INT Saturday was mental not physical.

We need Kay healthy for the final 4 games: SMU, Rutgers, Houston and UofL. The other seven games can be won with Munchie at the helm if, for no other reason than the weak opponents. I'm confident CTT will play the right players when needed and wants to make sure Kay is at 100% before putting him in.

(09-03-2013 01:49 PM)bctn8n Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 01:31 PM)uccheese Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:46 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I think many coaches in 2013 are in love with having a QB who is off the charts athletically. Might think its easier to hide flaws as a passer than it is to teach 4.4 speed in a read-option. Its the new normal in the game.

As a passer who goes through progressions and who doesn't make a bunch of plays that hurt the offense during a game, there is no comparison. Kay wins that all day. As a player who is a dual threat, the same can be said for Munchie.

Maybe, but I think it's worth noting that Munchie's interceptions are almost always physical mistakes. With a lot of QB's, you take a look back at INTs and think the ball should have never been thrown there. With Munchie's picks, you almost always come away thinking the ball sailed on him or was too much of a line drive so it got tipped, etc. I think he's actually a good decision maker, but his inaccuracy is leading to INTs which naturally makes people question his reads/decisions.

Then again, INTs are INTs regardless of the reason so I guess it doesn't matter if he's TRYING to throw to the right spot or not.

His second INT Saturday was mental not physical.

Care to explain? The way I saw it, they had a guy isolated 1v1 for that fade and the throw was horrible, but I admit I've only seen that part of the game once and that was live. How did you see it? Should have gone somewhere else?

(09-03-2013 01:49 PM)bctn8n Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 01:31 PM)uccheese Wrote:  Maybe, but I think it's worth noting that Munchie's interceptions are almost always physical mistakes. With a lot of QB's, you take a look back at INTs and think the ball should have never been thrown there. With Munchie's picks, you almost always come away thinking the ball sailed on him or was too much of a line drive so it got tipped, etc. I think he's actually a good decision maker, but his inaccuracy is leading to INTs which naturally makes people question his reads/decisions.

Then again, INTs are INTs regardless of the reason so I guess it doesn't matter if he's TRYING to throw to the right spot or not.

His second INT Saturday was mental not physical.

i disagree. it was both. The pass should not have been thrown and it was short. Not unlike the interception at Louisville in OT, the INT returned for a TD at Toledo, or the one that he threw right to the Toledo Defender with no WR in sight. When Munchie throws an int that isn't tipped at the line his WRs rarely have a shot at making a play. Hell, some of his best passes were 50/50 balls where the WR made a GREAT play, usually fighting off a DB or catching a poorly thrown ball with a high degree of difficulty.

Besides the tip int and the int in the endzone, there was a pass into coverage where Munchie was moving left, his WR was moving right and he ended up throwing it right to a LB who, luckily, dropped it. There was also the completion that McClung had to pick up off the ground. i give credit to the coaches for putting him in a position to succeed, unlike Lyle. That said, i want Brendon to start, period, end of story. He gives the team the best chance to win in the long run, and nothing that happened in the Purdue game changed my mind on that.

In Tuberville's press conference today he said it should've gone to the 2nd read. He then went on to state that Munchie knew it as soon as threw it. The 2nd read was wide open but he locked onto the first read which was covered.

Judge for yourself. Based on the highlight, at no point is Shaq Washington open as the DB is covering him like a blanket and is always positioned between the QB and WR. The ball never should have been thrown:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9619755

(09-03-2013 02:34 PM)bctn8n Wrote:  In Tuberville's press conference today he said it should've gone to the 2nd read. He then went on to state that Munchie knew it as soon as threw it. The 2nd read was wide open but he locked onto the first read which was covered.

Therein lies the problem...there is never a 2nd read. Gran and TT will learn. If a 2nd read is needed, it is going to be an incompletion, an INT, or a sack like the one he took.

(09-03-2013 02:00 PM)mac6115cd Wrote:  We need Kay healthy for the final 4 games: SMU, Rutgers, Houston and UofL. The other seven games can be won with Munchie at the helm if, for no other reason than the weak opponents. I'm confident CTT will play the right players when needed and wants to make sure Kay is at 100% before putting him in.

(09-03-2013 03:13 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 02:34 PM)bctn8n Wrote:  In Tuberville's press conference today he said it should've gone to the 2nd read. He then went on to state that Munchie knew it as soon as threw it. The 2nd read was wide open but he locked onto the first read which was covered.

Therein lies the problem...there is never a 2nd read. Gran and TT will learn. If a 2nd read is needed, it is going to be an incompletion, an INT, or a sack like the one he took.

They already understand, and have been working on it....He's a work in progress.
No need to panic...Better/ok to win games with limited time for Brendan until he's 100%

I cannot believe we are discussing this again this year.

(09-03-2013 05:00 PM)bearcat14 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 02:00 PM)mac6115cd Wrote:  We need Kay healthy for the final 4 games: SMU, Rutgers, Houston and UofL. The other seven games can be won with Munchie at the helm if, for no other reason than the weak opponents. I'm confident CTT will play the right players when needed and wants to make sure Kay is at 100% before putting him in.

(09-03-2013 03:13 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 02:34 PM)bctn8n Wrote:  In Tuberville's press conference today he said it should've gone to the 2nd read. He then went on to state that Munchie knew it as soon as threw it. The 2nd read was wide open but he locked onto the first read which was covered.

Therein lies the problem...there is never a 2nd read. Gran and TT will learn. If a 2nd read is needed, it is going to be an incompletion, an INT, or a sack like the one he took.

They already understand, and have been working on it....He's a work in progress.
No need to panic...Better/ok to win games with limited time for Brendan until he's 100%

Glad to hear they're aware and working on it, but... he's a senior. No senior, anywhere should be labeled a "work in progress".

Why is Brandon Kay running a qb sneak or playing at all if not 100%???

(09-03-2013 05:04 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  I cannot believe we are discussing this again this year.

X2