(08-20-2013 01:37 AM)jh Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:59 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:49 AM)jh Wrote:  Wait, what? Seriously? Your explanation is that the White and Asian populations had a much lower total fertility rate than Hispanics? Seriously? Do you want to maybe look at the numbers I posted and try again? I'll even bold it for you. And repeat it, just to make it easy for you.
Non-Hispanic (total): 1.95
How about you try again. And at least put a little effort into it.

You've already lost the argument dude. There is no dependency in the numbers. Your source equals the same outcome as my source. I don't know how your source broke down its categories. I can tell you how my source broke down the numbers by demographics. Including legal and illegal births.

No, your sources (you provided the links to both of them, remember) are completely at odds with one another. I'm guessing that the CDC's numbers are a little better than Craigg639's, but, if you want to go the other way you have to pick a different number for 2011.

But wait, there's more.

When talking about the 2011 total fertility rate, you said:

(08-19-2013 01:58 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  The overall fertility rate is 1.89. . . . Illegal immigrants having babies is not only not added into that rate, but adding to the problem of diluting our established culture.

Quote:Now, somehow, in 2006 illegal immigrants having babies is enough to drop the total fertility rate from 2.11 to 1.6. You do realize that both the 2006 (2.11) and 2011 (1.89) total fertility numbers came from the same chart, right? Did illegals simply stop having babies in the meantime.

again, the video clearly states that the fertility rate was 2.11 in 2006. It only touched upon the rate being 1.6 before the influx of Latino babies born from people coming through our southern border was factored in

Quote:You need to stop changing your story. Pick something and go with it. Man up and show some conviction. If you can't be right, and you've certainly demonstrated that point, be certain.

The story has never changed. The fertility rates have remained constant throughout this conversation. Whether you want the breakdown in the video or the chart you provided, the rates are the same. The video never stated that the overall fertility rate was 1.6 in 2006. The fact of the matter is that our fertility rate is too low to maintain a native population. Your constant argument that the video was somehow false or wrong is not only false, but meaningless to the argument.

I think you are just stalling because you cannot get around the fact that we must rely on immigration for demographic stability. So man up and and admit the premise is correct.

Legit questions here that may have been answered but I'm not going to scroll through 20+ pages of arguments to find.

So what about those of us who might have been born in the US to an illegal immigrant but were adopted and raised by a white couple who couldn't have kids?

Because I'm not "white" and am of Hispanic descent but grew up in a "white" household am I allowed to breed? Or is it ok that I'm 30+ and don't have kids since I'm not "white" or "black".

(08-20-2013 12:32 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  Legit questions here that may have been answered but I'm not going to scroll through 20+ pages of arguments to find.

So what about those of us who might have been born in the US to an illegal immigrant but were adopted and raised by a white couple who couldn't have kids?

Because I'm not "white" and am of Hispanic descent but grew up in a "white" household am I allowed to breed? Or is it ok that I'm 30+ and don't have kids since I'm not "white" or "black".

This has nothing to do with race, and just because you are Hispanic doesn't mean you aren't white. Hispanic is not a race.

(08-20-2013 12:35 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:32 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  Legit questions here that may have been answered but I'm not going to scroll through 20+ pages of arguments to find.

So what about those of us who might have been born in the US to an illegal immigrant but were adopted and raised by a white couple who couldn't have kids?

Because I'm not "white" and am of Hispanic descent but grew up in a "white" household am I allowed to breed? Or is it ok that I'm 30+ and don't have kids since I'm not "white" or "black".

This has nothing to do with race, and just because you are Hispanic doesn't mean you aren't white. Hispanic is not a race.

Congrats Bucfyre! Looks like you've made the cut.

(08-20-2013 12:36 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:35 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:32 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  Legit questions here that may have been answered but I'm not going to scroll through 20+ pages of arguments to find.

So what about those of us who might have been born in the US to an illegal immigrant but were adopted and raised by a white couple who couldn't have kids?

Because I'm not "white" and am of Hispanic descent but grew up in a "white" household am I allowed to breed? Or is it ok that I'm 30+ and don't have kids since I'm not "white" or "black".

This has nothing to do with race, and just because you are Hispanic doesn't mean you aren't white. Hispanic is not a race.

Congrats Bucfyre! Looks like you've made the cut.

OIC, you want this to be about race so you can label people racists.

(08-20-2013 12:35 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:32 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  Legit questions here that may have been answered but I'm not going to scroll through 20+ pages of arguments to find.

So what about those of us who might have been born in the US to an illegal immigrant but were adopted and raised by a white couple who couldn't have kids?

Because I'm not "white" and am of Hispanic descent but grew up in a "white" household am I allowed to breed? Or is it ok that I'm 30+ and don't have kids since I'm not "white" or "black".

This has nothing to do with race, and just because you are Hispanic doesn't mean you aren't white. Hispanic is not a race.

Ok fine. But you haven't answered my question. I wasn't asking about race. It seems the argument here is that Americans are letting foreigners outbreed them.

I'm asking you is it ok for someone like me who is NOT BORN of American parents but RAISED by American parents acceptable, in your opinion, to have kids?

(08-20-2013 12:38 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:36 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:35 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:32 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  Legit questions here that may have been answered but I'm not going to scroll through 20+ pages of arguments to find.

So what about those of us who might have been born in the US to an illegal immigrant but were adopted and raised by a white couple who couldn't have kids?

Because I'm not "white" and am of Hispanic descent but grew up in a "white" household am I allowed to breed? Or is it ok that I'm 30+ and don't have kids since I'm not "white" or "black".

This has nothing to do with race, and just because you are Hispanic doesn't mean you aren't white. Hispanic is not a race.

Congrats Bucfyre! Looks like you've made the cut.

OIC, you want this to be about race so you can label people racists.

I'm an equal opportunity racist like Russell Peters.

(08-20-2013 12:39 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:35 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:32 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  Legit questions here that may have been answered but I'm not going to scroll through 20+ pages of arguments to find.

So what about those of us who might have been born in the US to an illegal immigrant but were adopted and raised by a white couple who couldn't have kids?

Because I'm not "white" and am of Hispanic descent but grew up in a "white" household am I allowed to breed? Or is it ok that I'm 30+ and don't have kids since I'm not "white" or "black".

This has nothing to do with race, and just because you are Hispanic doesn't mean you aren't white. Hispanic is not a race.

Ok fine. But you haven't answered my question. I wasn't asking about race. It seems the argument here is that Americans are letting foreigners outbreed them.

I'm asking you is it ok for someone like me who is NOT BORN of American parents but RAISED by American parents acceptable, in your opinion, to have kids?

You are trying to alter the argument. It's not "my opinion." No one is suggesting some people should be allowed to reproduce and some should not.

Ask me a valid question and I'll give you a valid answer.

(08-20-2013 12:40 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:38 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:36 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:35 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:32 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  Legit questions here that may have been answered but I'm not going to scroll through 20+ pages of arguments to find.

So what about those of us who might have been born in the US to an illegal immigrant but were adopted and raised by a white couple who couldn't have kids?

Because I'm not "white" and am of Hispanic descent but grew up in a "white" household am I allowed to breed? Or is it ok that I'm 30+ and don't have kids since I'm not "white" or "black".

This has nothing to do with race, and just because you are Hispanic doesn't mean you aren't white. Hispanic is not a race.

Congrats Bucfyre! Looks like you've made the cut.

OIC, you want this to be about race so you can label people racists.

I'm an equal opportunity racist like Russell Peters.

That comment was not for you.

(08-20-2013 12:43 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:39 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:35 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:32 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  Legit questions here that may have been answered but I'm not going to scroll through 20+ pages of arguments to find.

So what about those of us who might have been born in the US to an illegal immigrant but were adopted and raised by a white couple who couldn't have kids?

Because I'm not "white" and am of Hispanic descent but grew up in a "white" household am I allowed to breed? Or is it ok that I'm 30+ and don't have kids since I'm not "white" or "black".

This has nothing to do with race, and just because you are Hispanic doesn't mean you aren't white. Hispanic is not a race.

Ok fine. But you haven't answered my question. I wasn't asking about race. It seems the argument here is that Americans are letting foreigners outbreed them.

I'm asking you is it ok for someone like me who is NOT BORN of American parents but RAISED by American parents acceptable, in your opinion, to have kids?

You are trying to alter the argument. It's not "my opinion." No one is suggesting some people should be allowed to reproduce and some should not.

Ask me a valid question and I'll give you a valid answer.

But you clearly want more "native born citizens" to breed to preserve American culture.

Quote:More children from native born citizens. Not foreign born. If you cannot see how that preserves our culture, I cannot help you.

If your stance is that you want to preserve American culture and that you're concerned about those of us who aren't having kids is creating an influx of foreigners then what is someone like me supposed to think?

If I wanted to have kids am I contributing to the influx of foreigners? Or does it cancel out since I'm born of foreigners and my husband is not.

Or if I choose not to have kids am I contributing to the downfall of American culture since they'd be half white?

(08-20-2013 12:54 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:43 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:39 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:35 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:32 PM)BucFyre Wrote:  Legit questions here that may have been answered but I'm not going to scroll through 20+ pages of arguments to find.

So what about those of us who might have been born in the US to an illegal immigrant but were adopted and raised by a white couple who couldn't have kids?

Because I'm not "white" and am of Hispanic descent but grew up in a "white" household am I allowed to breed? Or is it ok that I'm 30+ and don't have kids since I'm not "white" or "black".

This has nothing to do with race, and just because you are Hispanic doesn't mean you aren't white. Hispanic is not a race.

Ok fine. But you haven't answered my question. I wasn't asking about race. It seems the argument here is that Americans are letting foreigners outbreed them.

I'm asking you is it ok for someone like me who is NOT BORN of American parents but RAISED by American parents acceptable, in your opinion, to have kids?

You are trying to alter the argument. It's not "my opinion." No one is suggesting some people should be allowed to reproduce and some should not.

Ask me a valid question and I'll give you a valid answer.

But you clearly want more "native born citizens" to breed to preserve American culture.

Quote:More children from native born citizens. Not foreign born. If you cannot see how that preserves our culture, I cannot help you.

If your stance is that you want to preserve American culture and that you're concerned about those of us who aren't having kids is creating an influx of foreigners then what is someone like me supposed to think?

If I wanted to have kids am I contributing to the influx of foreigners? Or does it cancel out since I'm born of foreigners and my husband is not.

Or if I choose not to have kids am I contributing to the downfall of American culture since they'd be half white?

Do you have a legal right to live in the United States? Are you Americanized? What does having half white kids have to do with your situation? Are you not white and want me to know that or are you looking to inject some kind of racist angle into the discussion - or both?

One injection.. You said Hispanic is not a race. I disagree. When you fill out any paper work Hispanic is listed under race.

(08-20-2013 01:00 PM)gdunn Wrote:  One injection.. You said Hispanic is not a race. I disagree. When you fill out any paper work Hispanic is listed under race.

Hispanic is not a race. Hispanic is a cultural identity. It's not a matter of opinion.

his·pan·ic
/hiˈspanik/

Adjective
Of or relating to Spain or to Spanish-speaking countries, esp. those of Latin America.

Noun
A Spanish-speaking person living in the US, esp. one of Latin American descent.

Hispanics can be of any race.

(08-20-2013 01:04 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 01:00 PM)gdunn Wrote:  One injection.. You said Hispanic is not a race. I disagree. When you fill out any paper work Hispanic is listed under race.

Hispanic is not a race. Hispanic is a cultural identity. It's not a matter of opinion.

his·pan·ic
/hiˈspanik/

Adjective
Of or relating to Spain or to Spanish-speaking countries, esp. those of Latin America.

Noun
A Spanish-speaking person living in the US, esp. one of Latin American descent.

Hispanics can be of any race.

I can google the dictionary too, but it's listed under race on any application you fill out.

I told a half truth.. It asks if you are Hispanic or Latino.

(08-20-2013 01:05 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 01:04 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 01:00 PM)gdunn Wrote:  One injection.. You said Hispanic is not a race. I disagree. When you fill out any paper work Hispanic is listed under race.

Hispanic is not a race. Hispanic is a cultural identity. It's not a matter of opinion.

his·pan·ic
/hiˈspanik/

Adjective
Of or relating to Spain or to Spanish-speaking countries, esp. those of Latin America.

Noun
A Spanish-speaking person living in the US, esp. one of Latin American descent.

Hispanics can be of any race.

I can google the dictionary too, but it's listed under race on any application you fill out.

No it's not. It's listed as ethnic background on most paperwork and not a requirement by law for anyone to answer.

Hispanic is not a race. A Caucasian can be Hispanic. An Asian can be Hispanic. Blacks can also be Hispanic.

But they're still Hispanic.

Ask my buddy from Puerto Rico if he's black or Hispanic.. He'll tell you he's Hispanic. Actually he'll say I'm Puerto Rican.

(08-20-2013 01:18 PM)gdunn Wrote:  But they're still Hispanic.

Ask my buddy from Puerto Rico if he's black or Hispanic.. He'll tell you he's Hispanic. Actually he'll say I'm Puerto Rican.

They are Hispanic because they all come from a Spanish speaking country or Spanish cultural background. That has nothing to do with race.
There are black Hispanics in places like El Salvador and Cuba as well.

Races are Caucasian or European. Indian, Asian or Black(African)

Most of the illegal aliens coming in from Mexico are of Aztec or Indian decent. There is also a huge population in Mexico with blonde hair and blue eyes. They are Caucasion Hispanics. Eva Longoria was startled to find out she is more European than Aztec.

(08-20-2013 01:29 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 01:18 PM)gdunn Wrote:  But they're still Hispanic.

Ask my buddy from Puerto Rico if he's black or Hispanic.. He'll tell you he's Hispanic. Actually he'll say I'm Puerto Rican.

They are Hispanic because they all come from a Spanish speaking country or Spanish cultural background. That has nothing to do with race.
There are black Hispanics in places like El Salvador and Cuba as well.

Races are Caucasian or European. Indian, Asian or Black(African)

Most of the illegal aliens coming in from Mexico are of Aztec or Indian decent. There is also a huge population in Mexico with blonde hair and blue eyes. They are Caucasion Hispanics. Eva Longoria was startled to find out she is more European than Aztec.

Correct, many don't get that.
Also European immigration to Mexico and South American countries happened every bit as much as it did in North America.

Aw man, now I have to fix your formatting errors too? I want to make sure you get credit for all of your brilliance.

(08-20-2013 12:15 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 01:37 AM)jh Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:59 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 12:49 AM)jh Wrote:  Wait, what? Seriously? Your explanation is that the White and Asian populations had a much lower total fertility rate than Hispanics? Seriously? Do you want to maybe look at the numbers I posted and try again? I'll even bold it for you. And repeat it, just to make it easy for you.
Non-Hispanic (total): 1.95
How about you try again. And at least put a little effort into it.

You've already lost the argument dude. There is no dependency in the numbers. Your source equals the same outcome as my source. I don't know how your source broke down its categories. I can tell you how my source broke down the numbers by demographics. Including legal and illegal births.

No, your sources (you provided the links to both of them, remember) are completely at odds with one another. I'm guessing that the CDC's numbers are a little better than Craigg639's, but, if you want to go the other way you have to pick a different number for 2011.
But wait, there's more.
When talking about the 2011 total fertility rate, you said:

(08-19-2013 01:58 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  The overall fertility rate is 1.89. . . . Illegal immigrants having babies is not only not added into that rate, but adding to the problem of diluting our established culture.

Quote:Now, somehow, in 2006 illegal immigrants having babies is enough to drop the total fertility rate from 2.11 to 1.6. You do realize that both the 2006 (2.11) and 2011 (1.89) total fertility numbers came from the same chart, right? Did illegals simply stop having babies in the meantime.

again, the video clearly states that the fertility rate was 2.11 in 2006. It only touched upon the rate being 1.6 before the influx of Latino babies born from people coming through our southern border was factored in

Now the video only touched on the 1.6 number? I suppose if I go back through the thread I won't see you constantly stating that the total fertility number was 1.6 in 1988 or 1986?

(08-15-2013 10:34 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  It was 1.6 in 2008.

(08-16-2013 12:04 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Which averages out to 1.6 per woman in 2008 and 1.89 per woman in 2011. . . .
That number is too low to maintain our culture. I'm going to keep repeating it until you understand it.

(08-16-2013 12:30 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  The fertility rate is 1.89 children per each woman. That is too low to maintain a culture. It was too low in 2008(1.6) and it is too low now. I'm betting if you haven't been able to understand this by now, you may never understand it.

Nope, you never said anything like that.

Now, moving on, please explain to me how a non-Hispanic total fertility rate of 1.95 for 2006 somehow converts to a non-Hispanic total fertility rate of 1.6 for 2006.

And, just one more time, I would like to point out that most of the Hispanic babies born in America are not born to illegal immigrants. They can be real Americans too. It's true, I've seen it happen.

(08-20-2013 12:15 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

jh Wrote:You need to stop changing your story. Pick something and go with it. Man up and show some conviction. If you can't be right, and you've certainly demonstrated that point, be certain.

The story has never changed. The fertility rates have remained constant throughout this conversation. Whether you want the breakdown in the video or the chart you provided, the rates are the same. The video never stated that the overall fertility rate was 1.6 in 2006. The fact of the matter is that our fertility rate is too low to maintain a native population. Your constant argument that the video was somehow false or wrong is not only false, but meaningless to the argument.
I think you are just stalling because you cannot get around the fact that we must rely on immigration for demographic stability. So man up and and admit the premise is correct.

I was about ready to give up on you, but you've made another tiny little bit of progress. You've now admitted that the 2.11 total fertility rate refers to demographic stability, as I've pointed out since the beginning of the conversation. You have been the one trying to pretend it was something else, not me.

(08-14-2013 10:48 PM)jh Wrote:  Please note that the total fertility rate, fertility rate, and birth rate are all different things. A total fertility rate of 2.11 is the replacement level needed under the current mortality conditions (not a fertility rate as in the super special video or a birth rate as you keep calling it).

(08-15-2013 09:41 PM)jh Wrote:  "The total fertility rate is the number of births that 1,000 women would have in their lifetime if, at each year of age, they experienced the birth rates occurring in the specified year. A total fertility rate of 2,110 represents “replacement level” fertility for the total population under current mortality conditions (assuming no net immigration)."

(08-15-2013 11:40 PM)jh Wrote:  There is a different between the replacement rate (the 2.11 number), which is the total fertility rate needed to maintain a constant population without immigration, and the total fertility rate needed to maintain a culture with immigration (a much more difficult number to calculate). They are not the same thing, just as the birth rate, fertility rate, and total fertility rate are not the same thing either.

I admire your chutzpah. Not many people can pretend they've been arguing something entirely different all along with quite the same aplomb.

Now that we are starting to settle on the terms, if you would pick a coherent set of total fertility rates perhaps there could be a productive conversation.