Southern Miss coach Todd Monken has some thoughts about an NCAA split

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/fau-o...0066.story


"I would propose to [the power conferences] this: If you want to split off, let's just do it that way, but you play each other, and you don't get to play us then," Monken said.

"Go ahead. See how you like that. See how you like the NFL rule and play each other every week. Coaches will be like 'Whoa, hold on, wait a second now.'"

"Go ahead and do your deal — you guys split all the pie — but don't go playing anyone else. You just play each other every week. Just have a nice NFL crossover where you play each other. Then when you fire up a nice 7-5, and you're at a pretty good place and they fire you, they won't be real excited about it, because you won't have those games that they've been able to win. Plain and simple."

"Some of those teams that get bowl eligible when they go 2-6 in their league and they go 6-6. Well, you'll be 2-10, or 3-9, and it won't feel so damn salty."

I'd rather follow him than Delaney.

Won't happen because neither side wants it. It's the biggest reason I think more is being made of this (at least at the FBS level) than it really warrants. Neither the power 5 nor group of 5 want to end playing each other, so no matter what happens, the regular season and bowl game structure is highly unlikely to be altered. That means either a) a separation will include all of I-A, b) it won't include large parts of I-A, but as far as the season goes, they basically act like they are in the same division by playing regular games against each other and in bowls (including the CFP), or c) a separation won't happen (certainly being considered, but the threat of it alone might be enough to get through the issues the power schools wanted more freedom with).

I'm glad Monken spoke up, and I hope others will have the same attitude.

What I think would happen, though, is that the P5 would just schedule a few more FCS-type teams. So a typical P5 schedule would be 8 conference games, maybe 1 "major" OOC game like Georgia/Georgia Tech or Florida/FSU, and then 3 FCS opponents. Those games would serve the purpose of allowing the players an easy win in a scrimmage-like atmosphere plus a chance for fans who can't afford tickets to Auburn/Alabama see a game between Auburn/UT-Chattanooga.

I think those comments from Coach Monken are shortsighted and assume that most fans are dumb. As G5 fanbases are so fond of exclaiming, many of the P5 schools are equal to or worse in football quality than many G5 schools. Every week will not be "NFL-lite" level. The vast majority of fans in power programs don't care as much about going undefeated as winning the conference and having a chance at the national title. The bowl requirements will surely change if the P5 only setup is adopted, or another system (maybe a basketball-like conference "Challenge") will be set up so that everyone gets that extra game in December if they want it. In any case, you can guarantee that a P5 only schedule setup will create more revenue, exposure, and favorable setup for athletes and coaches if they are given say over the decisions.

(07-25-2013 10:51 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I think those comments from Coach Monken are shortsighted and assume that most fans are dumb. As G5 fanbases are so fond of exclaiming, many of the P5 schools are equal to or worse in football quality than many G5 schools. Every week will not be "NFL-lite" level. The vast majority of fans in power programs don't care as much about going undefeated as winning the conference and having a chance at the national title. The bowl requirements will surely change if the P5 only setup is adopted, or another system (maybe a basketball-like conference "Challenge") will be set up so that everyone gets that extra game in December if they want it. In any case, you can guarantee that a P5 only schedule setup will create more revenue, exposure, and favorable setup for athletes and coaches if they are given say over the decisions.

What?

I agree that if it ever got to the point of a total split, there'd be a whole lot of brand erosion and a lot of unhappy fans.

(07-25-2013 11:23 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 10:51 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I think those comments from Coach Monken are shortsighted and assume that most fans are dumb. As G5 fanbases are so fond of exclaiming, many of the P5 schools are equal to or worse in football quality than many G5 schools. Every week will not be "NFL-lite" level. The vast majority of fans in power programs don't care as much about going undefeated as winning the conference and having a chance at the national title. The bowl requirements will surely change if the P5 only setup is adopted, or another system (maybe a basketball-like conference "Challenge") will be set up so that everyone gets that extra game in December if they want it. In any case, you can guarantee that a P5 only schedule setup will create more revenue, exposure, and favorable setup for athletes and coaches if they are given say over the decisions.

What?

What are you contesting? I will reply to it.

Bigblue, I just honestly do not get what your comment was about.

(07-25-2013 11:29 AM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  I agree that if it ever got to the point of a total split, there'd be a whole lot of brand erosion and a lot of unhappy fans.

I agree that there could be brand erosion by creating a subdivision that is NFL Lite. The same could be also true about conference realignment when many fans thought it would be super sweet to add UT and OU to the SEC. You add too many power schools under one conference and you'll eventually find that some of your power schools lose their brand appeal because they cease to be power schools because of the competition. See UGA and U of Tenn as prime examples of as being part of a conference that is too strong overall as it is.

I will say that if you do have a subdivision of just power conferences, a lot of casual fans who feel affiliated with lower level schools will tune out. On top of that, changing the system to mimic the NFL will result in the product looking like an inferior imitation of the real thing. Competitive advantage is set up via differentiation and not by imitating something that objectively has the best talent playing the same sport you do...

(07-25-2013 10:51 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I think those comments from Coach Monken are shortsighted and assume that most fans are dumb. As G5 fanbases are so fond of exclaiming, many of the P5 schools are equal to or worse in football quality than many G5 schools. Every week will not be "NFL-lite" level. The vast majority of fans in power programs don't care as much about going undefeated as winning the conference and having a chance at the national title. The bowl requirements will surely change if the P5 only setup is adopted, or another system (maybe a basketball-like conference "Challenge") will be set up so that everyone gets that extra game in December if they want it. In any case, you can guarantee that a P5 only schedule setup will create more revenue, exposure, and favorable setup for athletes and coaches if they are given say over the decisions.

You're right in that most fans are not dumb. So taking the next step to becoming a subdivision of just the P5 will take CFB closer to the step of being just like the NFL in form - but not substance. The CFB game is objectively inferior to the NFL in quality of play. But CFB thrived despite that because it differentiated itself from the NFL. Once those differences disappear, then the fans will realize (since they are not stupid) that they don't want to watch in inferior quality product that is an imitation of the NFL.

Awesome. I appreciate it when somebody speaks truth like that.

He is speaking to P5 coaches and telling them to bee careful what they ask for.

it's unfair to all CFB coaches to assume that these "elite school head coaches" are the ones pushing this realignment. I tend to think it's about ADs and University Presidents looking to maximize their own dollars, at the sake of the whole. While I can appreciate a person trying to improve their University's financial position, it shouldn't be ok to do that at the expense of other schools. The only people who can stop this are the very people that are propagating this hoarding of the pie. The Presidents and ADs of these P5 schools.

I appreciate Coach Monken's sentiment, but I think it's better placed at these ADs and University Presidents.

I wont be surprised if they stop playing FCS schools but I highly doubt that they will stop playing the G5

(07-25-2013 11:49 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 10:51 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I think those comments from Coach Monken are shortsighted and assume that most fans are dumb. As G5 fanbases are so fond of exclaiming, many of the P5 schools are equal to or worse in football quality than many G5 schools. Every week will not be "NFL-lite" level. The vast majority of fans in power programs don't care as much about going undefeated as winning the conference and having a chance at the national title. The bowl requirements will surely change if the P5 only setup is adopted, or another system (maybe a basketball-like conference "Challenge") will be set up so that everyone gets that extra game in December if they want it. In any case, you can guarantee that a P5 only schedule setup will create more revenue, exposure, and favorable setup for athletes and coaches if they are given say over the decisions.

You're right in that most fans are not dumb. So taking the next step to becoming a subdivision of just the P5 will take CFB closer to the step of being just like the NFL in form - but not substance. The CFB game is objectively inferior to the NFL in quality of play. But CFB thrived despite that because it differentiated itself from the NFL. Once those differences disappear, then the fans will realize (since they are not stupid) that they don't want to watch in inferior quality product that is an imitation of the NFL.

This.

I just find it hilarious being a fan of two schools now. Teams like Wake Forest would be volunteering to become the FAU of the next system. And personally I think it would make football a lot worse because no way schools like Alabama are going to go out and schedule Texas, USC, Penn State, and Nebraska every single year then go into conference play. Sure Alabama would survive but the amount of injuries would be insane.

It's easy to get fans excited when your going 12-0 or 9-3 but it would be a miracle to even go 7-5 in break off system.

(07-25-2013 12:37 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 11:49 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 10:51 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I think those comments from Coach Monken are shortsighted and assume that most fans are dumb. As G5 fanbases are so fond of exclaiming, many of the P5 schools are equal to or worse in football quality than many G5 schools. Every week will not be "NFL-lite" level. The vast majority of fans in power programs don't care as much about going undefeated as winning the conference and having a chance at the national title. The bowl requirements will surely change if the P5 only setup is adopted, or another system (maybe a basketball-like conference "Challenge") will be set up so that everyone gets that extra game in December if they want it. In any case, you can guarantee that a P5 only schedule setup will create more revenue, exposure, and favorable setup for athletes and coaches if they are given say over the decisions.

You're right in that most fans are not dumb. So taking the next step to becoming a subdivision of just the P5 will take CFB closer to the step of being just like the NFL in form - but not substance. The CFB game is objectively inferior to the NFL in quality of play. But CFB thrived despite that because it differentiated itself from the NFL. Once those differences disappear, then the fans will realize (since they are not stupid) that they don't want to watch in inferior quality product that is an imitation of the NFL.

This.

OK... I see now where we have differences. Coach Monken's statements, in summary, suggests that the P5 schools will regret it if they only play amongst themselves. Others on the thread who are supporting this view think that consolidation of power will decrease fan interest. Perhaps this is based on my experience as an SEC fan for a bottom dweller team, but interest (which translates into revenue and exposure for the school), have risen each year that the conference has become stronger. I do not believe that most fans who are used to a 9-3 regular season record under the status quo will suddenly lose interest if they go 7-5 because they added more quality opponents who are better aligned with their level of exposure, academics, resources, and athletic success. Yes, it will take an adjustment period, but, as fans of both college and NFL football know, setting an undefeated or a one loss season as the ultimate goal, regardless of the competition level, is not rational. There is a reason the undefeated season in the NFL is so glorified; it is virtually impossible under the current competitive conditions. The same would occur in "Division 4" college football and fans would adjust quickly.

These are the reasons I said that Coach Monken's comments were shortsighted and assume that most fans are dumb. I by know means am saying that he is dumb himself. If I was a coach for an AAC, MWC, or C-USA football team and felt the winds shifting in a direction where I may be left out, I would say the exact same thing. The title of this thread says that Coach Monken "nails it" in regard to a potential P5 split. I just come down on the other side of that fence. He may have nailed it for the G5 point of view, but that is not the P5 view.

(07-25-2013 12:54 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I just find it hilarious being a fan of two schools now. Teams like Wake Forest would be volunteering to become the FAU of the next system. And personally I think it would make football a lot worse because no way schools like Alabama are going to go out and schedule Texas, USC, Penn State, and Nebraska every single year then go into conference play. Sure Alabama would survive but the amount of injuries would be insane.

It's easy to get fans excited when your going 12-0 or 9-3 but it would be a miracle to even go 7-5 in break off system.

I just mentioned this in my last post, but I disagree that fans will not adjust. It is about pecking order, not record. If Bama wins the SEC and the national championship at 11-3 rather than 14-0, only the most obtuse fans would be disappointed. A high tide raises all boats... if everyone is playing stiffer competition, then we are looking at the top teams across the country being 10-2 or 9-3 with the occasional 9-1 or 10-0 team. Again, it is about pecking order, not record. As a Kentucky fan, I would be thrilled with a 5-5 record in such a P5 only setup. Year in and year out, I care about beating Louisville, competing with Tennessee, and being respectable in conference games. I think that general mentality of most fans is being missed in the thoughts of Coach Monken. If anything, college is set up better than pro sports for bottom feeders to remain satisfied with consistent losing records. Many programs have done it for years and years. As long as the pageantry, game day atmosphere, and comradery among peer institutions is present, college football at the highest level will thrive.

As a Southern Miss fan, it sure is nice to have a head coach with some fire in his belly.

(07-25-2013 12:29 PM)GaSouthern Wrote:  I wont be surprised if they stop playing FCS schools but I highly doubt that they will stop playing the G5

The FCS bit has already started. The Big Ten has a conference wide ban on FCS games starting in 2016. (IE enough time to play out existing contracts.) Coincidentally or not so coincidentally that's the first year of the 9 game conference schedule for the Big Ten.