(07-16-2013 04:45 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Who's to say the P5 wouldn't split (all sports) and take the Big East basketball conference, as well as the West Coast Conference with them..?

That way, Georgetown, Butler and Gonzaga are covered.

They don't even have to do that much, if all they're concerned about is having the best teams in their basketball tournaments.

When the "contract conferences" start the BMAA (Big Money Athletic Association), and the BMAA has its basketball tournaments, their tournament committee can invite the best non-BMAA teams to participate in their tournament.

(07-16-2013 04:47 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:12 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:11 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:06 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Since the P5 teams won't play G5 teams on a level playing field, maybe they might as well break away officially. They've mostly done it already.

So who's going to watch their NCAA March Madness tourney when Washington State plays Boston College while UConn, Georgetown, and Memphis are barred from competing?

Boston natives and the fine folks who reside in western Washington.

And the rest of the country?

Oh those guys? Well, I would imagine they would be busy watching Syracuse beat Kentucky

(07-16-2013 04:50 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:48 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:45 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:11 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:06 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Since the P5 teams won't play G5 teams on a level playing field, maybe they might as well break away officially. They've mostly done it already.

So who's going to watch their NCAA March Madness tourney when Washington State plays Boston College while UConn, Georgetown, and Memphis are barred from competing?

Who's to say the P5 wouldn't split (all sports) and take the Big East basketball conference, as well as the West Coast Conference with them..?

That way, Georgetown, Butler and Gonzaga are covered.

But they wouldn't take the AAC with UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, and Temple?

I question your sanity.

And I question the sanity of the UConn brass for not aligning their basketball programs with the Big East members.

So, there's that.

I would have gone BIG EAST for everything but football (obviously) and MAC as a football-only.

That would blow up the college football world.

(07-16-2013 04:11 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 03:37 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/...out_sports

During his remarks at SEC Media Days today, Commissioner Mike Slive made some really curious remarks.

Quote:Speaking at his address to kick off SEC Media Days, Slive said determining the proper role, function, composition and size of the board of directors should be addressed. Slive also questioned whether members need all of the services provided by the NCAA office and wants streamlined NCAA committee processes.

Quote:During an interview after the speech, Slive would not specify what changes he would like to see with the board of directors structure. Rather, he said, the NCAA's ongoing review of its governance structure should be realistic, include all constituents and the NCAA should decide what the nature of the board should be.

Quote:Slive said conferences and their members "must be allowed to meet the needs" of their athletes.

"In recent conversations with my commissioner colleagues, there appears to be a willingness to support a meaningful solution to this important change," he said. "... I think I really do speak for my colleagues when I say we want the NCAA to be an effective organization, and the conversation stops there."

When asked what's the alternative to the NCAA not changing, Slive replied, "I'm going to let you decide that."

To be clear, Slive says he wants changes made to the scope and direction of the Board of Directors (a panel within the NCAA that is comprised of 18 university presidents, 11 from FBS (or former FBS) conferences and 7 from the rest of D1), but does not specify what he thinks those changes should be.

It's almost comical to hear him say these things when his own university presidents are ones who continue to shoot down some of those very same proposals that he advocates. Then the media jumps on the bandwagon to say that the top of FBS needs to break away because the small schools are holding them back. Yet it isn't only the small schools that submit override proposals for new legislation.

I think that the P5 schools should form a new division and the g5 schools would be treated like FCS schools are now. They would have their own thing going on, but they would be allowed to play P5 schools. I think that the biggest difference between the two divisions should be player stipends.

I don't think that a complete break from the NCAA is a good idea.

Nope. The G5 have to say no and send them packing lock, stock, and barrel. No having their cake and eating it to.

No scheduling, no NCAA tourney, no Olympic sports. They can go semi-pro in all sports or none.

(07-16-2013 05:00 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:45 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Who's to say the P5 wouldn't split (all sports) and take the Big East basketball conference, as well as the West Coast Conference with them..?

That way, Georgetown, Butler and Gonzaga are covered.

They don't even have to do that much, if all they're concerned about is having the best teams in their basketball tournaments.

When the "contract conferences" start the BMAA (Big Money Athletic Association), and the BMAA has its basketball tournaments, their tournament committee can invite the best non-BMAA teams to participate in their tournament.

NCAA would need to have a rule against accepting semi-pro tournament invites.

(07-16-2013 03:37 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/...out_sports

During his remarks at SEC Media Days today, Commissioner Mike Slive made some really curious remarks.

Quote:Speaking at his address to kick off SEC Media Days, Slive said determining the proper role, function, composition and size of the board of directors should be addressed. Slive also questioned whether members need all of the services provided by the NCAA office and wants streamlined NCAA committee processes.

Quote:During an interview after the speech, Slive would not specify what changes he would like to see with the board of directors structure. Rather, he said, the NCAA's ongoing review of its governance structure should be realistic, include all constituents and the NCAA should decide what the nature of the board should be.

Quote:Slive said conferences and their members "must be allowed to meet the needs" of their athletes.

"In recent conversations with my commissioner colleagues, there appears to be a willingness to support a meaningful solution to this important change," he said. "... I think I really do speak for my colleagues when I say we want the NCAA to be an effective organization, and the conversation stops there."

When asked what's the alternative to the NCAA not changing, Slive replied, "I'm going to let you decide that."

To be clear, Slive says he wants changes made to the scope and direction of the Board of Directors (a panel within the NCAA that is comprised of 18 university presidents, 11 from FBS (or former FBS) conferences and 7 from the rest of D1), but does not specify what he thinks those changes should be.

It's almost comical to hear him say these things when his own university presidents are ones who continue to shoot down some of those very same proposals that he advocates. Then the media jumps on the bandwagon to say that the top of FBS needs to break away because the small schools are holding them back. Yet it isn't only the small schools that submit override proposals for new legislation.

I don't see any hints at breaking away.

I do see expression of concern over the fact that FBS conferences no longer hold as much control over the Board thanks to the departure of the WAC as an FBS league.

I see concern about some of the ridiculous things the NCAA does with money. A few years ago they started a program called "NCAA Football" to promote college football interest and attendance. Know what they did? They dolled up some RV's and set them on SATURDAY in the parking lots of the 30-50 best attended programs with goofy little displays and skills programs for kids to throw a football at a target and kiosks to play slideshows of facts about NCAA football.

They've created funds to help student-athletes who have an emergency financial need and it takes weeks to months to get approved a fantastically wonderful program for the kid needing emergency money to go home for his mother's funeral.

They make nice posters telling student-athletes to not gamble. They made a video telling student-athletes to tell a trainer or doctor if they suspect they have a concussion.

They hire interns by the butt-load (most are from Butler).

For decades most enforcement was done at the conference level (in part because conferences tended to have stricter rules than the NCAA who had far fewer rules). Even as the NCAA expanded, the initial investigation work was done by conferences who forwarded their findings to the NCAA and it wasn't unusual for a conference to impose stiffer penalties than the NCAA did.

Now we have a national supervisor of officials. Used to be if conference supervisor saw something that warranted a suspension he called the commissioner and forwarded the film. Now he notifies the commissioner and the national supervisor and the national supervisor states his opinion but it still remains the decision of the commissioner. That national supervisor can keep you from working an NCAA tournament but he can't tell the Pac-12 "fire that inept SOB" nor can he say "Joe Smith in the Big Sky is really good, hire him to fill that vacant slot you have."

(07-16-2013 05:48 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 05:00 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:45 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Who's to say the P5 wouldn't split (all sports) and take the Big East basketball conference, as well as the West Coast Conference with them..?

That way, Georgetown, Butler and Gonzaga are covered.

They don't even have to do that much, if all they're concerned about is having the best teams in their basketball tournaments.

When the "contract conferences" start the BMAA (Big Money Athletic Association), and the BMAA has its basketball tournaments, their tournament committee can invite the best non-BMAA teams to participate in their tournament.

NCAA would need to have a rule against accepting semi-pro tournament invites.

The NCAA makes $775 million a year in TV money alone on its own tournament. Are they going to give that up so that they can have an amateur tournament played only for the love of the game?

(07-16-2013 04:06 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Since the P5 teams won't play G5 teams on a level playing field, maybe they might as well break away officially. They've mostly done it already.

What's a level playing field? G5 schools have TV contracts, conference affiliations, etc. If you want a level playing field, raise your enrollment to 30,000, and build a stadium that holds more than 25,000. It is just a fact that a bigger product is worth more money. Does anyone beside Slive think the NCAA is a mess? Of course. .

(07-16-2013 06:27 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 05:48 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 05:00 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:45 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Who's to say the P5 wouldn't split (all sports) and take the Big East basketball conference, as well as the West Coast Conference with them..?

That way, Georgetown, Butler and Gonzaga are covered.

They don't even have to do that much, if all they're concerned about is having the best teams in their basketball tournaments.

When the "contract conferences" start the BMAA (Big Money Athletic Association), and the BMAA has its basketball tournaments, their tournament committee can invite the best non-BMAA teams to participate in their tournament.

NCAA would need to have a rule against accepting semi-pro tournament invites.

The NCAA makes $775 million a year in TV money alone on its own tournament. Are they going to give that up so that they can have an amateur tournament played only for the love of the game?

The NCAA is supposed to be a body looking out for the good of ALL members and more importantly the integrity of all college athletics. Not just the P5, not just football, not just FBS.

If some insist that it be restructured to preserve their interests and power over others...farewell.

If the non-P5 want to control their own destiny in the future then they won't succumb to threats or bribes or special invites.

The P5 already have massive financial and competitive advantages. They are NOT being mistreated.

Let them break away in all sports if they want. I don't think they want because they would then have a competitor organization they would have no control or influence over and we might make new rules for ourselves that they wouldn't want.

(07-16-2013 05:47 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Nope. The G5 have to say no and send them packing lock, stock, and barrel. No having their cake and eating it to.

No scheduling, no NCAA tourney, no Olympic sports. They can go semi-pro in all sports or none.

I think that would hurt the g5 more than the P5.

(07-16-2013 06:43 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 06:27 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The NCAA makes $775 million a year in TV money alone on its own tournament. Are they going to give that up so that they can have an amateur tournament played only for the love of the game?

The NCAA is supposed to be a body looking out for the good of ALL members and more importantly the integrity of all college athletics. Not just the P5, not just football, not just FBS.

The point is : The NCAA is not doing that right now. That enormous amount of NCAA tournament money is largely being skimmed off the top by the NCAA and not being given to the schools or conferences. It's being used for their Keystone Kops enforcement division, it's being used for those phat salaries paid to Emmert and others.

Slive said the NCAA should be a leaner organization. If it was leaner and the overhead was lower, then there would be more March Madness money to deliver to the schools that earn it.

You want the schools responsible for that revenue to stay in the NCAA, you address their concerns. I know that in my business, we address the concerns of the people and businesses who create our revenue. There would be unhappy consequences if we didn't.

(07-16-2013 06:53 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 05:47 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Nope. The G5 have to say no and send them packing lock, stock, and barrel. No having their cake and eating it to.

No scheduling, no NCAA tourney, no Olympic sports. They can go semi-pro in all sports or none.

I think that would hurt the g5 more than the P5.

I doubt one preseason game against a P5 team is gong to make much difference. The G5 would be destroyed either way. My guess is the G5 would disappear from football for all pracitcal purposes. Everyone is interested in determining the best team in all of college football. Nobody cares who wins the mid-cruiser weight college football championship. Theres only one division they care about--the top division.

There will be lots of tarps covering lots of seats in G5 stadiums. FCS teams increase ticket sales when they move up. I'm pretty sure the math holds true when the operation is reversed. For the teams that are relatively new to FBS, it might not be too bad. For the teams that have been around 50 years or more, it will be devestating to be left behind.

My interpretation is the same as LSUtah's

The P5 will strike a deal with the NCAA: give us our own subdivision for football only so we can have an 8 team P5-only playoff and in return we will wont break away and leave you penniless without our teams playing in the NCAA Tournament.

(07-16-2013 04:45 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:11 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:06 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Since the P5 teams won't play G5 teams on a level playing field, maybe they might as well break away officially. They've mostly done it already.

So who's going to watch their NCAA March Madness tourney when Washington State plays Boston College while UConn, Georgetown, and Memphis are barred from competing?

Who's to say the P5 wouldn't split (all sports) and take the Big East basketball conference, as well as the West Coast Conference with them..?

That way, Georgetown, Butler and Gonzaga are covered.

I could see that happen very easily in the event of a split from the NCAA.

A split is going to happen the only thing is When exactly it will happen and Who will actually be going with the initial move. It has happened before years ago with the NIT which was the biggest tournament across the land and then came along this so-called NCAA, and it will happen again with another association taking over the Power 5 Conferences possibly others. I have always thought the BCS would have been this so-called association, but they have moved on and who will over see this moved of the top 70 teams amongst the country is anyone's best idea, but it is going to happen possibly IMO within the next 5 years 10 at most.

(07-16-2013 04:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:26 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:22 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:11 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:06 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Since the P5 teams won't play G5 teams on a level playing field, maybe they might as well break away officially. They've mostly done it already.

So who's going to watch their NCAA March Madness tourney when Washington State plays Boston College while UConn, Georgetown, and Memphis are barred from competing?

They only want to split away in football, I'm sure. Everything is just hunky-dory in the other sports.

I wouldn't be so sure. They give a lot of basketball money up. Everyone says they need the underdogs but I think teams like Miami, Vandy, Baylor or whoever catches fire that year could fill that role.

The biggest issue there is not the money taken by the smaller conferences, but the money taken off the top by the NCAA itself.

Only about 26% of the money received by the NCAA in rights fees from CBS/TBS goes back to the schools in the form of tournament "units". The rest is kept by the NCAA and used/distributed as Emmert & Co. see fit.

See this article, and the calculations I did to arrive at the 26% figure here.

Yes only 26% of the money goes to tournament units that are distributed based on performance. But most of the rest also goes back to schools in other forms or is used to run all the various tournaments the NCAA hosts. Only 4% goes to NCAA for administrative tasks. Here's the full breakdown:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/publ...s+Expenses

Quote:NCAA expenses for 2011-12 were $800 million, about 63 percent of which were direct distributions to Division I conferences and institutions.

A total of $503 million [about 60%] was distributed to Division I members through the provisions of the Division I Revenue-Distribution Plan. See the distributions section for more information.

Of the remainder, $80 million supported Division I championships and programs, while $32.5 million went to Division II and $25.3 million to Division III. See the championships section for more information.

Another $104.5 million was directed at Association-wide programs, including injury insurance, postgraduate scholarships and committee support, among other things.

So 60% of the money goes straight back to the conferences, with another 7% total going to D2 and D3 to run their championships and another 10% going to run the D1 championships and another 13% going to other programs that benefit all institutions like injury insurance. Only 4% goes to administrative costs and only 3% goes to the LLC. There really isn't a large portion off the top that's "kept" by the association.

(07-16-2013 05:47 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 04:11 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 03:37 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/...out_sports

During his remarks at SEC Media Days today, Commissioner Mike Slive made some really curious remarks.

Quote:Speaking at his address to kick off SEC Media Days, Slive said determining the proper role, function, composition and size of the board of directors should be addressed. Slive also questioned whether members need all of the services provided by the NCAA office and wants streamlined NCAA committee processes.

Quote:During an interview after the speech, Slive would not specify what changes he would like to see with the board of directors structure. Rather, he said, the NCAA's ongoing review of its governance structure should be realistic, include all constituents and the NCAA should decide what the nature of the board should be.

Quote:Slive said conferences and their members "must be allowed to meet the needs" of their athletes.

"In recent conversations with my commissioner colleagues, there appears to be a willingness to support a meaningful solution to this important change," he said. "... I think I really do speak for my colleagues when I say we want the NCAA to be an effective organization, and the conversation stops there."

When asked what's the alternative to the NCAA not changing, Slive replied, "I'm going to let you decide that."

To be clear, Slive says he wants changes made to the scope and direction of the Board of Directors (a panel within the NCAA that is comprised of 18 university presidents, 11 from FBS (or former FBS) conferences and 7 from the rest of D1), but does not specify what he thinks those changes should be.

It's almost comical to hear him say these things when his own university presidents are ones who continue to shoot down some of those very same proposals that he advocates. Then the media jumps on the bandwagon to say that the top of FBS needs to break away because the small schools are holding them back. Yet it isn't only the small schools that submit override proposals for new legislation.

I think that the P5 schools should form a new division and the g5 schools would be treated like FCS schools are now. They would have their own thing going on, but they would be allowed to play P5 schools. I think that the biggest difference between the two divisions should be player stipends.

I don't think that a complete break from the NCAA is a good idea.

Nope. The G5 have to say no and send them packing lock, stock, and barrel. No having their cake and eating it to.

No scheduling, no NCAA tourney, no Olympic sports. They can go semi-pro in all sports or none.

There is no way the G5 schools say no. None. Zip. Zero. And everyone knows it. If the G5 can stay with the P5 they will. History shows this.

(07-16-2013 07:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  My interpretation is the same as LSUtah's

The P5 will strike a deal with the NCAA: give us our own subdivision for football only so we can have an 8 team P5-only playoff and in return we will wont break away and leave you penniless without our teams playing in the NCAA Tournament.

But here's the funny part, FBS could run their own 8 team playoff tournament now if they wanted to. The NCAA will bow to whatever the P5 wants. The P5 are the ones who need to get themselves on the same line. They have control and they know it. The problem is that they're not in agreement on what to do. They get new rules relaxing restrictions on recruiting passed and then balk at the concept and then push to override the new rules. They pass a player stipend, then balk at the concept. They pass 4-year scholarships, yet don't utilize them. Yet somehow it's the smaller schools holding them back? That's what I mean. It's pretty funny.

(07-16-2013 07:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  My interpretation is the same as LSUtah's

The P5 will strike a deal with the NCAA: give us our own subdivision for football only so we can have an 8 team P5-only playoff and in return we will wont break away and leave you penniless without our teams playing in the NCAA Tournament.

Yep, have said as much myself that the next phase after the last phase of realignment was to then pressure the NCAA. If there is to be any more major realignment, the foundation has to be laid for the creation of the new structure. It works best for everyone if that structure is within the NCAA.

New rules need to happen though so all these "readjustments" to the NCAA will be made in regards to keeping the Major Universities around. Once the NCAA is fully leveraged and new rules are passed, the next phase of realignment can happen if one is to happen at all.

Told ya all though that the next phase was absolutely an across the board attack upon the NCAA from within. We are seeing all the public media usage by these guys to continue to put the squeeze on the NCAA.